Women Anointed Catholic Deacons, Priest in S.B.

The nutters are just following the feminist idea that if I believe something to be true then it is true.

This movement is NOT within the Catholic Church. It is not Catholic.

These women have excommunicated themselves from the Church and are no longer in communion. It will remain that way until they have repented from what they have done.

They are seriously delusional to think it's any other way.

What is this impulse people have to make a mockery of and destroy things just because they doesn't suit them? Isn't that the whole purpose of the founding of this country: you are free to choose. Choose does not mean throw acid in my face because you don't like how I look. It means look at something that does suit you. It's selfish, self-centered, prideful, and in no way Catholic to seek to "change" the church to suit your personal interpretation of things.

Where is the balance in this article? The Santa Barbara Independent makes no attempt to contact representatives of the real Roman Catholic Church in California for a statement. These people are NOT ordaining women in the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. They have made themselves a splinter group and that is exactly what excommunication is -- they have chosen to set themselves apart from the Church -- it is something they have done to themselves. A perfect example of what Pope Benedict XVI calls moral relativism -- people making up the rules to suit themselves. It's all about 'me'. Let's be clear: they are not Roman Catholic priests.

NONE of this has anything whatsoever to do with the desire to love and serve Christ and His Church, and in turn, suffering humanity, created in His image.

Rather, it's all about POWER for these women, er, wymyn. Many of them will openly admit it to you, in my experience. "We want power. We will not be denied it."

The 'spirit" these women are inspired by is not the Holy Spirit, you may be assured of that.

I agree w/ yussy. This is a radical feminist group using the Catholic church's name to justify their own made-up causes. Catholics don't view these women as anything else. These women, all misandries, are just old hippies still looking to rebel over anything they can think of.

This group is NOT Catholic, nor recognized by the Church. Their staged performance is just that, a performance, no legitimate sacrament within the Catholic Church.

I'll be praying for these poor women.
God bless

Readers need to understand that these foolish women are no more Catholic priests (just because some misguided individual lays hands on them to "annoint" them)...then you or I would be U.S. Senators, if we stood in front of an American flag and had a roomful of equally misguided individuals proclaim us as "elected" outside of the official system.

Since some actual Catholic bishops apparently participated in this bizarre charade, one has to ask if these bishops also believe in the "...goddess that those in the ceremony declined to refer to explicitly."

Therefore as "Catholics", do these women also believe they will then be transubstantiating bread and wine into Christ's body and blood when they perform the Holy sacrifice of the Mass, as so instituted (along with the all-male priesthood) by Christ at the Last Supper? I doubt it.

The Catholic Church by definition believes in apostolic succession to the priesthood. Because some may wish Christ's instruction would have been otherwise does not make it true.

www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Su...

"Obedience" (to the instructions of Christ and Catholic sacred tradition) is a bad word these days. In fact the concept can enrage some people, especially heretics and cafeteria Catholics. "Bishop" Fresen is another fine example of the problem.

If Fresen wants to start yet another Protestant spin-off, fine, but calling herself Catholic serves only to muddy the definition. Of course that is part of her strategy.

The priesthood of Melchezedek is not appointed for women.The female form both physical, emmotional and mental are not configured to accommodate the energies required for transubstantiation. For a women to insist on being a priest is as ridiculous as for me ( a man) to insist on being a "priestess"it simply is not bona fide.You are eating bread and wine , you are not consumming the body and blood of Christ.

Congrats to Martha Sadler on her biased article. This is one reason why many people no longer regard newspapers as a serious source for news. Was her editor "out to lunch"?

The people mentioned are not Catholic. Does standing inside the SB Independent's building handing out my articles to passersby, make me a SB Independent journalist?

Please make sure to write the editor in cheif and let her know that you are disgusted with the inaccuracy and bias of the article. Be sure to copy Ms. Sadler and the Papal Nuncio, Archbishop Pietro Sambi, nuntiususa@nuntiususa.org.

Do not stand for blatant anti-Catholic lies to be published.

Request a retraction be made or a disclaimer be submitted stating that these women are NOT members of the Catholic Church and have no associations with the Church.

Women dressed in drag.

If I buy a policeman's uniform and pull cars over with a fake rotating light, does that make the tickets I write legal? Of course not. This is dress up, make believe. If they had done something of this magnitude in the secular world they would be locked up as delusional.

"Roman Catholic Church leadership--from Archbishop Mahoney to Bishop Curry to Father Virgil and others--declined to comment on the subject of the women's ordination."
Of course they declined to comment on it. Any comment they could make would be devoid of content, because one cannot comment on that which does not exist.
Their statements that they want to remain Roman Catholic sound like "I want to be catholic, as long as I define Roman Catholic".
Intellectually dishonest, at the very least.

Re: martha's post on July 27, 2007 at 10:35 a.m.

Ms. Sadler continues to dig a hole for herself. It's apparent she knows next to nothing about Catholicism. Is her boss listening?

"Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force. Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter that pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4).

In 1995, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in conjunction with the pope, ruled that this teaching "requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium (cf. Lumen Gentium 25:2)" (Response of Oct. 25, 1995).

I studied Roman Catholic theology a few years ago. I couldn't find one reason in the Scriptures why women shouldn't be ordained. I had deep conversations with the professors, priests and bishops around me (all male) and they couldn't tell me one reason why women shouldn't be ordained.
We should walk together hand in hand, women and men.
All those who wrote letters to the Editor without having studied theology and the Bible, should study the Bible very deeply. If we walk in the footsteps of Christ, who was love and tolerance, we will walk with one another in love and tolerance.
peace be with you.

Hello, check I Timothy 2:11-12,

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I [Paul] suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence."

With all the rot built up in the Church since Vatican II, it is no puzzle why your theological study didn't go over that teaching of St. Paul. The "priests" in this article are heretics and schismatics. If Jesus had wanted females in the clergy, he wouldn't have appointed twelve male apostles.

Also, men and women already do "walk together hand in hand" in Holy Mother Church; that's why we have nuns, baby!

The Holy Spirit is well and alive in the people of God. Many of us have waited for this day. I am thrilled. Some of us Catholics have attended Masses led by women priests, in fact, we are planning another one for September. We will not live without the Eucharist. The Catholic tradition lives and grows, it cannot stay stagnant, if it is truly open to the Spirit. This is a time for rejoicing.

The posted comments in this paper to the ordination of women priests in Santa Barbara present the most glaring example of why we need these women more today than ever. Particularly disturbing is the writer who uses the scribe Timothy to quote Paul as admonishing women to be silent. A common thread running through much of the comment.
Silence, is to the point, the reason for the emergence of such a growing expression of voice within the Roman Catholic Church.
In the culture of silence we experienced neglect, exploitation, and abuse. The male dominated leadership of the Roman Catholic Church failed to be good stewards of all of the members of the Church. Thus, over time the dissatisfaction and digust have given rise to a new culture. One of accountability, openness, and responsibility. None is being silent, and especially not the women.
Fully membered in the Church by Baptism, Communion, Reconciliation and Confirmation women claim their right to full participation in all of the sacraments of the Church, including Holy Orders. The support for such inclusion exists. Abuse of power by popes, bishops, and male leadership throughout the church over centuries without question has brought about the rejection of silence as a means to control the faithful. Women are being called forth from a community disgusted with the practices of the past
and hungry for a priesthood that is relevant,present ,and connected to the spiritual needs of the people. Infused with a spirit of service, dedication and support women are being ordained because of their priesthood...attentiveness and leadership to a community..not their gender. Voice is the culture, silence is not.
Catholic means universal and a universal church means ALL members participating fully in one voice, one priesthood,one love.

As a resident of Santa Barbara and a Catholic, I am absolutely appalled at the actions of these women, and the ridiculous anti-Catholic bias shown by the Independent in this article in calling them "Roman Catholic priests" as though their saying so makes it veritable. The latter one can expect and perhaps excuse as bad reporting, as the Independent is its own paper with the ability to print what it chooses from whatever slant and does so at some frequency; but the former is an atrocious assault upon the traditions of Holy Mother Church. All those participating in this act have been excommunicated ipso facto, and must confess these sins if they wish to come back to the Church.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy; these women cannot change her "from within" merely because they feel their individual, "special" interpretation of Scripture and "theology" (which, post -Vatican II can mean a numbers of things itself) leads them to conclude that sacred Tradition is "unfair." Christ is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, and guess what? He was *not* a woman. The Blessed Virgin Mary, His mother, by contrast, was. Men are called to imitate the former, and women are called to imitate the latter. What these "womenpriests" are doing is a sad feminist attempt to assault the natural order of Holy Mother Church. Neither the gates of Hell, nor their delusional charades, will ever prevail against her.

One thing in which we can take comfort is that these sorts of dress-up occasions are unknown among younger generations. The age of the participants in this heretical act is telling.

All generations, however, must remember that *no one* can change the Truth, the Deposit of Faith, which has been defended by the Church for millenia. I will pray for these women, and all those men and women unfortunate enough to be involved in this travesty tonight. Let us all pray that they are moved to contrition, and repent of their errors in the Sacrament of Penance as soon as possible.

Cor Iesu, miserere nobis.
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis.

"Women are being called forth from a community disgusted with the practices of the past and hungry for a priesthood that is relevant,present ,and connected to the spiritual needs of the people. "

That explains all the gray heads at clandestine meetings like these. If this movement were about relevance and reconciliation, they wouldn't be dividing themselves from the universal church, setting up shop in secret locations in opposition to the bishop of their local church. The early 2nd century early church writer, St. Ignatius of Antioch, warned the faithful about those who would seek to lure them away from fellowship with their bishop. He said, "Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop." The women involved with this movement are not witnesses to unity with Christ and the Church He established. Rather, by engaging in silly secret meetings like this, they are antagonists to the faith, and therefore antagonists to Christ - what Ignatius referred to as "noxious weeds."

The reservation of priesthood to men is understood by the Catholic Church to be infallible by virtue of the ordinary universal magisterium. Pope John Paul II, of blessed memory, confirmed this in his apostolic letter, "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis". That doesn't mean women have no dignity. On the contrary, they have immense dignity. Priesthood is fundamentally about service, not power as these women would like us to believe, and indeed women are called to serve in many ways as are men. The lie behind movements like this is that they tell women that they only have dignity and purpose if they do what men do. That is an insult to women.

"Catholic means universal and a universal church means ALL members participating fully in one voice, one priesthood,one love."

All of the baptized participate in the one priesthood of Christ. Ordained ministry is one manifestation of this powerful call to service. Being Catholic does not mean embracing every nutty idea under the sun. How did the early church define "Catholic"? In his Catechetical Lectures, 4th century writer St. Cyril of Jerusalem wrote:

"[The Church] is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other; and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men's knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly and because it brings into subjection to godliness the whole race of mankind, governors and governed, learned and unlearned; and because it universally treats and heals the whole class of sins, which are committed by soul or body, and possesses in itself every form of virtue which is named, both in deeds and words, and in every kind of spiritual gifts."

The mission of the Church is to go to the far ends of the earth, preaching God's final revelation in Jesus Christ, to whom everyone, the "whole race of mankind", must be subject. It is about remaining true to God's revelation in Christ. It is not about setting up clandestine meetings that only seek to mock the Church, her teaching, and her mission.

The 2nd century writer, St. Ignatius of Antioch, wrote, "Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Regarding the article,"Women Anointed Catholic Deacons, Priest in S.B." and the comments that have followed, as a Roman Catholic I offer the following reflection.

How is it that we Roman Catholics can so fervently profess our belief in the awesome, mystical and limitless powers of the Holy Spirit, yet also defend documents from Rome which have narrowly defined just how that same Holy Spirit moves, and will move in the lives of women. This is what the Church is essentially doing when it denies the Spirit's calling of women to the Priesthood-denying the unpredictable and all encompassing powers of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit moves without the directions of the institutional hierarchy. We claim we are mystified by the unspeakable and all powerful possibilities of the Holy Spirit, yet we have no process for discernment when a woman experiences that power of the Spirit
calling her to the priesthood? In the case of women's ordination to the priesthood, how is it that the Roman Catholic Church has defined a theology which not only discounts and denies the Spirit's urging in such cases, but the Church also goes so far as to state
with bold certainty that the Spirit will NEVER inspire such a calling in the lives of women. In the very least this seems heretical.

The women who are seeking ordination in the Roman Catholic Church are allowing the Spirit to move in their hearts and their lives as they discern this calling, which may or may not lead them to ordination. But if it does it will be an ordination within the Church of their Baptism-the Roman Catholic Church-as it continues to be a living and transforming Church. The Holy Spirit works in mysterious ways and Catholics must remain open to the
signs and urgings.

A consolation perhaps, judging from the photos, it appears to be all those old aged hippies lesbians who will be reaped from the Church soon enough. Perhaps the only "fruit" of Vat II was allowing the heretics to surface so we know them for who they are... like a disease brought to surface so it can be lanced from the whole.

That morally compromised self love generation will eventaully face their mortality and no longer cause harm to souls once they pass this Earth. Deo Gratias.

The ordination of women was a surprise to me when I first heard about it; something I never expected to see in my lifetime. I, like those Catholics who so stridently protest the recent event, was raised to take the "women need not apply" approach to the priesthood. It never occurred to me to question it, until I heard about women's ordination and began to really think about it and research it. Certainly, the male priesthood is clearly supported by Church tradition, dating back at least to within a century after the death of Christ. And it has been repeatedly supported by apostolic letters and other decrees from various authorities in the Church. The Church established this structure over many centuries of discussion, not clearly supported in the scriptures we have today, and decisions from which women were excluded. The assumption was always that women simply didn't count in the important business of running the Church.

This long tradition doesn't really jibe with the way Jesus looked at things. He was openly welcoming to women, which shocked everyone, including his followers. What on earth was he doing, talking to the Samaritan woman at the well, when everyone knew you weren't supposed to associate with women of ill repute, and a Samaritan to boot? An iconoclast in many other ways, he decried the misuse of authority, especially hypocritical religious leaders who preyed on the people. He healed lepers (also unclean); he healed on the Sabbath (against the rules). And he was inclusive. No one was excluded from his love or his company (tax collectors, sinners, the woman who washed his feet with her tears).

That kind of inclusion is also characteristic of this group of women. They are, unlike the traditional priesthood, inclusive of all, male or female, married or celibate, gay or straight, physically able or disabled. They have already been living lives of service, as nurses, counselors, teachers, and theologians. Their gender was God's decision, and it didn't in any way limit their full participation in the Body of Christ.

It was "expatrion" among the respondents who first brought the words of St. Paul into the discussion. Paul was a passionate follower of Jesus who crystallized the Good News in his many letters to new Christian communities. He wrote: "For all of you who have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither free nor slave, neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."

I trust that the Holy Spirit is constantly moving within and among us. And I will not be one to throw a stone at someone who has listened to the Spirit's call to service in the priesthood and answered it with such courage, knowing she would be vilified. By this they will know us: by the love we have one for one another. If this is not right in any way, the Spirit will work through us to right it. If, however, it is right, we will no longer close the door to priestly service to half our population.

The "Extraordinary Ordinations" of Catholic women are indeed that. But they are not extraordinary just because of gender, marital status, wording, or the need to protect some from punitive responses; they are extraordinary because these women are the face of courage in speaking out for inclusivity and justice in the Catholic church. They challenge the church through their own response to the Spirit who calls them to be fully Catholic and fully spiritual women.
In the evolutionary path of Vatican II, religious orders without habits, women lectors, women ministers of communion, and women parish administrators, Roman Catholic Womenpriests are our 21st century prophets in the church. Thank you, womenpriests, and welcome. We've waited long enough.

"Roman Catholic Womenpriests are our 21st century prophets in the church."

Uh.. no. They aren't. Not to this young adult, and not to many, many others. We strive to follow Christ who calls us to repentance and communion with Him and all believers. We live by His Grace, walking in the good works He has prepared for us to live in. We nurture our relationship with Him through the sacraments of His Church. We grow closer to Him as we grow closer to each other.

And along comes this group, which claims to speak on behalf of the Church and "the Spirit", yet it openly encourages division and disfellowship from our local bishop, it celebrates sexual perversion and sexual acts outside of matrimony, it preaches New Age practices that are an offense to God, and it mocks our sacraments and the authority of our local church. We aren't dumb. We know this smells foul, and it is most certainly not the fruit of the Spirit. We reject this poison. We know what the Second Vatican Council taught. We've read and studied its documents. We know that the Second Vatican Council did not call for this profanity.

"And along comes this group, which claims to speak on behalf of the Church and "the Spirit", yet it openly encourages division and disfellowship from our local bishop, it celebrates sexual perversion and sexual acts outside of matrimony, it preaches New Age practices that are an offense to God, and it mocks our sacraments and the authority of our local church. We aren't dumb. We know this smells foul, and it is most certainly not the fruit of the Spirit. We reject this poison. We know what the Second Vatican Council taught. We've read and studied its documents. We know that the Second Vatican Council did not call for this profanity."

I couldn't agree with you more 'polycarp'. Thank you for putting it so well. Roman Catholics look to the Holy Father, the vicar of Christ on Earth for direction as well as church history and scripture. As Roman Catholics we object to their use of that term and their assumption that this is what the Spirit calls for. This is a manifestation of the evil of moral relativism and must be recognized as such.

It does not surprise me that some of these people who participated in this disgraceful display of selfishness are lesbians.

Scripture is very clear of these relationships, as they are abominations before the Lord.

Truly what is sad is the harm these heretics will do to the innocent people who believe they are taking the Body and Blood of Christ.

Moreover, those who are Baptized, will not truly receive the Sacrament of baptism, just a Lay baptism. Those who believe they are receiving the Sacrament of Marriage, will indeed not have a marriage blessed by the Church.

Thankfully we have a loving and merciful God, whom through His Church will see the harm done to innocent people, who if they knew their faith would stay away from these heretics.

If Bishops were indeed part of this charade, they will have to answer to God for their fall from Grace as will all who participate directly and indirectly with this attack on Holy Mother Church
.
Let us pray for the fallen, and try not to condemn these sinners, just their sin.

May the Holy Spirit, all the angels and the saints protect us and Jesus' Church from those who desecrate the Sacraments and all that is Holy.

If the church does not grow and adapt to the movement of the Holy Spirit it will lose it's potency of Christ's power in action. The church has always grown throughout it's history of 2000 years. There is a political part of the church that runs like a business and I see that as much different than the Mystical Body of Christ within the church...His spiritual Church.
As humans, we fall so short of who He Is and His desires. The church has always been slow to change but it always changes from within it's mystical body, as with the many saints that came forth out of the reformation period. It was only then that the political part of the church was converted as well to the changing of HIS SPIRIT. A renewal.
Vatican I....Vatican II....changing. I remember a wise priest during that changing period of time, said at the pulpit, "the diamond of the church never changes, but sometimes the gold band must be rewelded to hold the diamond in." I thought as a child that was very profound. We are in a new period of change. Where is mercy here my fellow Catholics? Where is your mercy for the growing needs of the church to be fulfilled? You must admit things are changing.
It is Christ's desire for the church to grow whether any of us understand or agree. The Holy Spirit will move. God leads this church, not man. He does use man by the power of His Spirit within them though. Be careful what you judge to not be His workings!
It is right that the Vatican be slow and discerning, but even our catechism states that all religions will be destroyed in the end of days. Christ's church is not destroyed after the structure & authority needed on earth for man is no longer needed. Be careful what you make an idol of that is not God Himself. You can make the political church an idol before Him+ as well. Stare upon His heart for new answers without fear. Renewal seems to always be resisted by man. Be hungry for any change that is good. Let the church be shaken and renewed.

Mary

The level of heresy demonstrated by the actions of these women is an abomination and profanation of the authority of the Vatican and the Holy See which Christ established as His Holy Church beginning with St. Peter. These women (along with the bishops who so-called ordained them) and those whom they lead astray are in great need of prayers for mercy on their souls for their spiritual blindness. The smoke of satan has entered the Catholic church through the false gods of self-determination, feminism, liberalism and rationalism. The bread that these women so-call "consecrate" worship, and eat is outright disobedience to God.

These are NOT ROMAN Catholic priests, they are Independent Catholic priests. If the women bishops were consecrated by a Roman bishop in good standing with the Roman church, that roman bishop does not have the faculties to consecrate other bishops without the faculties being delegated to him by the Pope. this has been the rule since the late 1800s after the Old Catholics rejected the novelty of papal infallability. Any lineage from the Orthodox, Old Catholic, Independent Catholic, Brazilian Catholic or other Catholic churches would, however, indeed be valid since those bishops do carry full faculties. So if they are claiming they are Roman, with direct roman lineage from a current Roman bishop, their consecrations and subsequent ordinations are void and invalid. If, however, they were consecrated bishops through any of the valid lines holding full faculties at the episcopate level, then they would be valid priests and bishops, but NOT ROMAN...that's all....I do not like or appreciate groups that misinform people. I want them to succeed in doing God's work as well, but lets keep the record straight...they are neither new to the priesthood in the Independent Catholic movement (which has ordained women to the priesthoold since the late 90's), nor are they ROMAN catholic.

I am a member of the Episcopal Church, which is the American branch of the Anglican Communion... and we are celebrating over 30 years of womens ordination to the sacred order of priests. For us... it started with one courageous bishop... who despite the reprucussions chose to follow the Spirits' call and ordain 11 women deacons to the order of priest at a time when the canons of the church spoke clearly against women's ordination to the priesthood. Change always takes one person... Moses.... Noah... St. Paul.... Abraham Lincoln... Martin Luther King.... it doenst matter what century or what millenia... there is always that one person called by God to lead the revolution... to begin change..... God is still speaking... it didn't end with the Bible.... In the words of Gracie Allen.... "never place a period where God has placed a Comma," +Peace be to All in Christ

The reason women cannot be priests is because it is a logical contradiction. It's like if I started calling myself a pumpkin. By definition, a pumpkin is a certain type of thing. By definition, I, a human, am another type of thing which is not a pumpkin. Thus, no matter how much I want to be a pumpkin, I can't. Even if I call myself a pumpkin, it won't make me one.

A Catholic priest is, by definition, male. Therefore, a woman can't be ordained a Catholic priest, not because of some arbitrary patriarchal rule but because it's the same as a woman trying to become a pumpkin. It makes no logical sense. And yes, I am a woman.