Teach-In On Israel

If I spend my days teaching children or doing volunteer work and spend my nights robbing banks or mugging people on the street, how do you label me? The evil you do will always trump the good you do to excuse it.

Israel is the most powerful nation in the region in the history of mankind and is continually portrayed as a victim and how the rest of us must get educated to learn that Israel is a victim. No doubt that the Jewish people were victimized throughout the history and the worst was by the Germany Nazis but so were many other people/religions including the Armenians which our government has problem recognizing. Also, I do not see (thankfully) Armenians victimizing others, as Israelis do to Palestinians, because Armenians were victimized in the past. Please stop showing Israel as a victim. The solution to the problem in the middle-east is co-existence. That means Israel should exist, Palestine should exist and so should others. Also Israel should stop helping the brainwashing of the Palestinian children (as Rabbi Mitch Goldstein states) through brutalizing the Palestinians, imprisoning these children’s siblings, and imposing the inhumane conditions that Israel forces these communities to live under.

Is America’s support of Israel really worth it?

Is it worth the lives of 6,000 American victims on 9/11
Is it worth one trillion dollars damage to our economy?
Is it worth the 200 billion dollars of American taxpayer’s money sent to Israel since its inception?
Is it worth the additional trillions of dollars we have spent for higher petroleum costs? (The Arab oil-weapon response to our pro-Israel policies)
Is it worth the loss of our Constitutional Rights and freedoms?
Is it worth alienating 99 percent of the people of the Mideast for 1 percent?
Is it worth it to support a nation created by terrorism and ethnic cleansing and whose leader is a long-time terrorist who is responsible for the death of 2000 men, women and children refugees in Lebanon?
Is it worth it to support a nation that has committed terrorist acts of murder and destruction against the United States? (Such as the Lavon Affair and the attack on the American Navy ship, the U.S.S Liberty)
Is it worth it to support a nation who spies on us? (Such as the Jonathan Pollard Case)
Is it worth it to support a nation who steals from us? (Such as the theft of enriched uranium for Israel’s illegal atomic bombs)
Is it worth it to support a nation that sells our most secret defense technology to America’s most dangerous enemy, the Red Chinese?
Is it worth it to allow a foreign nation to have the strongest lobby in our own American government?
Is it worth it when Israeli agents bribe American candidates with vast sums of campaign money so they will put the interests of Israel over America?

To Mr info
Our Teach in day was directed to people just like you. Good people who are misinformed as I am misinformed (I assume) as to what is going on right now in Bulgaria. Israel is indeed strong but is it strong enough to secure the survival of a community of 7 million people (in a tiny country that lack natural resources) while facing neighboring enemies that can be counted in hundreds of millions? I really suggest that you take a look at the map of the middle east and compare the size of Israel to the size of the Arab nations. This is quite scary.
And, yes, Israel is a victim. From the moment it was founded, and even before that, it has been attacked repeatedly by states and groups that vowed to destroy it. It doesn't make the Palestinian less of a victim; by the way, although they’re tragic fate is to a large extent the result of those attempts to ethnically cleanse the Jews in Palestine already in 1948. Yes, Israel doesn’t “Victimize” the Palestinians as a punishment for what others did in the past to the Jews, it does the minimum it needs to do to ensure its survival. When conditions will change, that is, when the Arab side will be willing to accept Israel’s right to exist as an independent state, the Palestinians will get their own independent state and no one will victimize them. It is as simple as that. However, some of the Palestinian leaders clearly did not learn from past mistakes, as the destruction of the Jewish state is still their manifested goal (don't believe me, read the national charter of the Hamas).
And last thing: No other People suffered as much as the Jews in modern times. In Poland for example, more than 90% of the Jewish population (3 million before WWII) was wiped out in horrific ways by the Nazi's. It doesn't mean the Jews deserve any prizes but there is really no point in denial. Also, who told you the Armenian never victimized no one? Like Israel, Armenia had its own struggle with other national groups (after the fall of the soviet union) and those were not solved with flowers.
Please Mr Info, learn the facts more. That all I can ask from you. And with one thing I agree with you with all my heart: “Israel should exist, Palestine should exist and so should others”.
P.S
English is not my first language so I apologize for any mistakes.

It is important to realize that Palestinians are a group of people who are shamelessly used by the leaders of more powerful Arab countries to wrest power from what they consider to be an illegitimate government--Israel. The Israelis have given up significant amounts of land and resources to Palestinians, but there can never be enough. Israel DOES exist, and therefore has a right to exist. The fact that it has been around for so many years as a very productive member of the world community pretty much makes all other arguments moot.

As far as Israel being a victim, it is. So are the Palestinians. They are fed islamic fundamentalist propaganda, which they unfortunately accept, keeping themselves horribly repressed by the people they continue to attack.

If the Native Americans began suicide bombing Target and Costco, how would YOU feel? Chances are you would avidly call for strong reprisals by the military and law enforcement. I would imagine the same to be the case in Israel. The group of immigrants who settled the area found it to be without infrastructure and made an effort to better things by creating one. For this they were punished by the governments of the surrounding countries, who felt threatened by progress.

Honestly, as long as people keep looking at things from their own, detached perspective, there will never be a solution. All parties concerned need to recognize the fact that there has to be some swallowing of pride and an attempt to make amends DESPITE past conflicts. Easier said than done, but bilaterally progressive leadership would help.

The Teach-in on Israel was an attempt to study the complexities of Israel and the Arab-Israeli conflict in an honest way that eschews anything resembling a Good Guys vs. Bad Guys mentality.

As on of the event's organizers, I feel that Ben Preston's article did a good job of conveying the spirit of learning and open-mindedness that permeated the day. I have to assume, therefore, that the mere fact that a bunch of people came together to study the situation in Israel was enough to provoke the hate-filled diatribes of the first three comments in this thread.

As a Jew, I can't help but find this kind of virulent anti-Israel sentiment kind of disturbing.

Sincerely,

Peter Melnick

I agree, Peter, the first 3 comments are shocking and shows how ignorant some are on events in the middle east. Ignorant is probably too kind a word. send2shepherd shows how easily one is likely to sell his/her soul to appease the terrorist element. Very sad indeed!

Part 1 - First, I am not surprised by the comments made by the organizers and some of the participants as your comments fit your agenda which was not to educate and rather have a get together of those with same mentality.

Dear Amico, I am not misinformed (at least not as much as you believe). You missed a very important point of my note which was Israel and her supporters continually portraying the Jewish state as a victim when relatively speaking they are not. You are correct that by square mileage Israel is a very small state compared with her Arab neighbors but let’s look at military (which is a much more important factor if there are any conflicts – I do not recall at any time size of a country resulting in the outcome of a war), Israel has nuclear weapons (lots of them according to some counts up to 200) and her Arab neighbors have none (and I am glad they do not and hope Israel didn’t either). As for 1948 and stating that Palestinians were attempting to ethnically cleansing the Jews in Palestine, well all valid historical documentation points to the fact that the state of Israel did not exist until 1948 and then it was established by terrorizing the villages where Palestinians (Muslim and Christian alike) lived, pushing them out of their homes and taking over those villages for themselves. Now don’t get me wrong I am not suggesting that this was a unique occurrence and nobody else has done so (everyone should know if they do not that American Indians had similar faith and so many others in the past) and rather I am correcting your statement. Am I biased? No. Are you biased? No. You talk based on your education and leanings and I do the same and believe me I have traveled the world and talked with people from many different countries and cultures and yes I have Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Buddhist and atheist friends (and I respect all of them) because I believe you only find the facts when you talk to everyone and hear all points of views and the facts are always somewhere between the diverse viewpoints. What I do not tolerate is hate, bigotry, hypocrisy… BTW your English is just fine, take care.

Part 2- Dear SBknowitall, interesting name! I do not disagree with your point about Palestinians being used (abused) by leaders of the more powerful Arab countries. Unfortunately, that is going on around the world – that is leaders taking advantage of situations for their own agenda. I totally disagree with your statement that Israel has given up significant amounts of land and resources. Latest of any report is that Israel is still occupying land that does not belong to it (Good counter site to your point of view is www.ifamericansknew.org and by seeing that site and others people can decide what is fair and what is not. Last comment for you is about your Target and Costco example. The answer to the question you posed is obvious. How about you answer this question: What if you wake up and see there are tanks and fully armored vehicles in your neighborhood, F-16s are overhead and shooting missiles and your neighbors are dead... What kind of reprisal would you look for especially when all you have are some rocks and guns? I agree with your last paragraph.

As for Mr. Melnik and millboy, to call my post as a hate-filled diatribe, I guess that is your level of tolerance for someone who does not see it your way. I can see your discomfort with the third post though. My comments were not based on ignorance and rather through interacting with all factions (including people with your point of view) from all over the world so do not simply say it is ignorance as it does not go far.

I apologize if anyone expects me to continually post here as I will not be able to and hope that all readers hopefully get a better perspective of what the facts are despite the meeting and the report on the meeting which was very one-sided and therefore wrong.

Dear INFO
Had you attended our teach-in you would have been surprised by the diversities of views expressed by the speakers. At least I and Mr Melnic took a lot effort to refute some pro-Israeli myths as we believe the simple truth supports our views.
I fail to see what historical accounts support your view of the history of Israel. The reality is that Israel was founded in 1948 on the basis of a UN resolution that called for a Jewish state and an Arab state on the land that was a British mandate. The Arab side (The local Palestinians together with the neighboring Arab countries) objected the resolution and immediately open begun with a series of attacks aiming at destroying the Jewish presence in Palestine that was to become a Jewish state. That presence was composed of Jews who lived in the country for many centuries and those who immigrated more recently, bought land (nothing was stolen from no one) and built villages and towns. My grandparents were among them. These are simple historical facts that anyone can check
This of course goes hand in hand in refereeing to Israel as a "victim" (which I personally, by the way, do not). When a small state is repeatedly attacked, when its enemies repeatedly announce that their goal is to destruct that state, when the inhabitants of the state suffer constant terror attacks, than I think it is fair to say that its a victim. As for the strength of Israel: Israel's military force is big enough and technologically-advanced enough to protect it for now. However, this comes at a great price for the Israeli society given the small size of the country and the population. Beside that, the nuclear power of Israel (to the extent it really exists) is not really usable (and one doesn't need to be an expert in political science to understand why) and it certainly doesn't protect Israel from the constant terror attacks.
As for biases and differences in opinions: I think anyone who is personally involved in the issue is biased to some degree. But still, one should differentiate between the facts and the different interpretations of the facts.

Hello Mr. Info,
Can you please explain to me why do you call Israel a very powerful country when you have these following facts:

The Arab nations are represented by 21 separate countries (see Table). There is only one Jewish nation with a tiny country, Israel. The combined territories of Arab countries is 650 fold greater than Israel (see map above comparing size of Israel versus those of Arab countries). Their population is 50 fold greater than Israel. The average per capita GDP in Arab countries is $3,700 versus $18,000 for Israel. This despite the fact that many Arab countries have world's richest oil resources.

The Arab nations initiated four wars against Israel. Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). (see Camp-David Accords). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.
Think about it...
The link with some educational movies and materials:
http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-co...

And please don't make any suggestions for Israel what to do with their tiny land , from a beautiful city Santa Barbara. You don't live there and so you can't understand what is it like to live with terror every day. If you learn some facts you will understand that Israel is trying to defend itself and nothing else.
The bloody arab propaganda doesn't teach you anything? Do you find normal using little children starpped to the suicide bomb belts? This doesn't give you any idea about the "great nation" which is called islamist extremists. Do you think that they understand democratic and humanitarian talks or they want to find solution only by destroying Israel and killing the innocent people. Can you sit with that kind of thirsty for blood people in the same table? I don't think so. So does Israel.
I have a good suggestion for you, go travel to Gaza and West Bank and try to convince your peaceful hamas brothers or islamic cihad friends to go to peaceful solution. We will see if you get out of there in one piece. By the way no life insurance for you , you take your life in your hands...

Good dreams,
Betty

:-D I laughed out loud at professor Spiegal's comment that Israel is "a very pro-U.S. state.” Apart from giving us a few pointers on how to abuse Arabs, Israel's gifts to USA consist of back-stabbing and front-stabbing. E.g., the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, Mossad breathing down Atta's neck in Florida, the "dancing Israelis" caught video-taping the Twin Towers collapse later saying "We were only there to document the event." Etc. If I'm wrong, then let's hear some specifics! Is there even a word for gratitude in Hebrew? We're just despicable suckers to them, apparently. Jewish self-mythologizing is agonizingly self-serving, but when it takes you to the top, the occasional pogrom teaches you nothing. It's sad for all involved. It's as if the "JAP" stereotype is a fractal example of the whole - speaking very loosely of course, so as to make a point. Hint: here in this Nation of Immigrants and Land of Opportunity, "anti-Semitism" is REALLY your fault (apart from neo-Nazis & KKK.) Is this theme not childish: We (meaning you) must pre-emptively obliterate any theoretical threat to Israel, because it's the only place where Jews can be safe. My take is that the yarmulkes and the keffiyehs over there pretty evenly deserve one another, so we should stop all aid to Israel before they nuke us for more. They won't make peace so long as our foreign aid keeps flowing.

I want to apologize to Info for lumping him/her in with what I termed the hate-filled diatribe of Send2Shepherd.

Reading Info's posts more carefully, I realize I was mistaken. There is lots of anger in his/her comments, but not hate. I think maybe Info is actually a little like me - he/she has a strong point of view, but is also interested in understanding other sides of the story. I am truly sorry I mistook him/her for the likes of Adonis_Tate (the previous poster) and Send2Shepherd, whose comments regurgitate the familiar thems of classic anti-Semitism, and to me seem truly vile and hate-filled.

As for the nature of the Teach-in on Israel, I think it's telling that of the six non-fiction books on our recommended reading list, one of the titles' was Sari Nusseibeh's ONCE UPON A COUNTRY: A PALESTINIAN LIFE, for which I provided the following description:

"Rabbi Arthur Gross-Schaefer is fond of saying that an enemy is someone whose story we have not yet heard. Sari Nusseibeh tells his story in a way that reflects his own determination to understand the Israeli narrative as well. In the end, Nusseibeh argues, Israelis and Palestinians must come to recognize that they are natural allies, utterly dependent upon one another in order to achieve the peace that both sides desperately desire."

The purpose of the Teach-in really was educational, not polemical. The organizers of the event all support Israel's absolute right to exist, but we don't have a company line. None of us vilify the Palestinians, or attempt to reduce the conflict to a simple Us vs. Them scenario. We do all share the value that discourse about the Arab-Israeli conflict needs to be fact-based, and respectful. The facts are complex, some of them are unpalatable, and we all need to learn more about the situation.

The question I'm asking myself is how a community event that was simply educational in nature could provoke the degree of vitriol evinced by some of the recent postings in this column.

What is interesting is that there is a parallel issue of immigration to this country from Mexico.

There are those who argue that the open border is causing problems on both sides of the border, and there are those who argue that it doesn't matter since Mexico is simply taking back what was taken from them.

The argument that the Reconquista supporters make is the same as those who claim only the Jews have the right to the land of Israel. Curiously, I don't hear people on the American Left who criticize Israel's policies criticizing those who feel the U.S. should be reclaimed by Mexico,

I remember a few years ago a young man stabbed and killed his best friend then fled for Israel. I don't know where the case ended up but Israel seemed to be in no hurry to extradite him back to the U.S.

I find that interesting given the support the U.S. has given to Israel over the decades.

Seems I have to take issue with various comments made throughout....

1. It's somewhat ambiguous, but my reading of getreal's post tells me it does not refer to Israel but rather to Hizbullah: "spend my days teaching children or doing volunteer work and spend my nights robbing banks or mugging people on the street" essentially matches David Lewis's report on Hizbullah.

2. Info's posts, though far from the sick, sick
language of Adonis_Tate or send2shepherd, still regurgitate some truthless and incendiary twists of language: "... I do not see (thankfully) Armenians victimizing others, as Israelis do to Palestinians, because Armenians were victimized in the past." This repeats an amazing contention previously written in the Independent by Jesse Aizenstat (the name behind Info?), that somehow Israel oppresses Palestinians because Jews were victims of past oppression. Pretty ridiculous. The simple fact is, Israel's treatment of Palestinians is a direct response to actions by Palestinians. For many years after Israel occupied the West Bank, relations between the majority of Jewish Israelis and the majority of Palestinian Arabs were just fine. Israel provided running water, electricity, phone service, health and social services, college campuses and jobs to Palestinians. Their situation was far better than it was under Jordanian rule. Inevitably things soured, with one of the primary causes being the vicious circle of terror attacks perpetrated by militant Palestinian factions (Fatah, PFLP, etc.), and Israel's defensive reprisals (and there were certainly other factors, including mistakes by Israel, typical of any occupation). To ascribe this unfortunate, but logical, progression to some kind of revenge for centuries of victimization at the hands of the world, is not only a far-fetched hypothesis but one that seems to deliberately and falsely present Jews and the people of Israeli as morally warped, undeserving of the right to basic self defense.

3. Info's contention that Israel is responsible for the brainwashing of Palestinian children to become suicide bombers is as misinformed as the contention that Al Qaeda perpetrated 9/11 because of America's colonialization of the Muslim world. Suicide bombing of civilians is unique (and ubiquitous) to radical fundamentalist Islam throughout the world, and is part of the culture of death that it employs to obtain total mind control over its minions. Non-fundamentalist Palestinians such as Fatah, full participants in the resistance movement, suffer the same retributions but do not teach their children to become suicide bombers. Even while suffering the devastation of daily suicide attacks by Palestinians, Israel did not teach its children hatred or revenge, and the same is true of any civilized society.

4. Last comment for Peter Melnick: I'm surprised that you're surprised...

Dan Some

"Info's contention that Israel is responsible for the brainwashing of Palestinian children to become suicide bombers is as misinformed as the contention that Al Qaeda perpetrated 9/11 because of America's colonialization of the Muslim world. Suicide bombing of civilians is unique (and ubiquitous) to radical fundamentalist Islam throughout the world, and is part of the culture of death that it employs to obtain total mind control over its minions."

I have this question: Why is terrorism now an issue in America? We hear it said that we live in a "post 9/11 world" which by definition means something is different now. The technology used by those who attacked the Twin Towers etc. was around decades ago so could this be a result of U.S. policy or to quote Ron Paul "Blowback"?

This post is not meant as in any way as criticism of Dansome but simply a question of what has happened to put us in a post-9/11 world.

comments on terrorism and the American Aid to Israel
First, in response to billclausen: There are many reasons why terrorism is now an issue and they all have to do with the rise of radical Islam. The radical Islam has began flourishing already more than 60 years ago with the foundation of the “Muslim brotherhood”. The ideology is clear: to return to the age of dominance of Islam. This is the openly stated goal and Israel plays a very minor role in all this. However, for some people ,blaming the Jews for all their problems is almost a habit.
Second, in response to a very ignorant post by Adonis_Tate, one thing should be clear: The American aid for Israel is the best deal the USA ever made!
Israel is the only reliable ally of the USA in the region. Not matter who wins the election in Israel, the friendship with the USA does not change.
Israel saved the USA a lot of money and the life of American soldiers and civilians. How come?
Israel supplied (and still supplies) the USA with crucial intelligence on its enemies and possible terror attacks. Israel supplied the USA, for example, with a MIG 21 in 1966 (captured from Iraq), when it was the Soviet Union’s most advanced fighter jet. If the Americans were to get the technical data about it themselves it would have taken many millions of dollars. Israel also saved an ally of the USA, the kingdom of Jordan, when Syria tried to invade it in 1970, upon the request of the president of the USA. If it wasn't for Israel, who knows how many American soldiers would have risked their lives there.
These are only 2 old examples. There are many more.
In return, Israel received aid which it must spend in the USA. This is a way to supply work to the American industry (not only the military one) and to force Israel not to by the competing products manufactured by other countries (including Israel...).
Moreover, the military achievements of Israel promoted the sells of American weapons over the world more than any marketing campaign.
So, yes, Israel is grateful to the USA and in fact it is probably the only country in which Americans are always popular and welcomed. However, lets keep in mind that the aid serves the American interests very well.

My previous comment generated epithets but no factual rebuttal. Hello! BTW, I tend to like Jews personally, apart from their (typically) vile tribalism. C'mon, Israel's the 600 lb gorilla in the ME. Stop hiding behind Hitler already!Also, where do old canards come from? Hmmmm?

Oops, there WAS a rebuttal! Thanks, Amico. It seems that the Jordanian upheaval was a civil war, with Palestinian refugees behaving badly toward their savior Jordan (surprise.) Israel intervened and got its butt kicked. But they weren't fighting our enemies, only their own.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Septe...

Regarding intelligence sharing, we only get generic reports of threat level when specifics would actually help us. Defected Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky, whose veracity is not certain, although it says something that he is still breathing, wrote that Mossad had an informant in the Lebanese factory where a truck was outfitted for a HUGE bomb. The only logical target of such a weapon was our Marine barracks. Did Israel tell us about that blue Mercedes truck? Ah, no, that would not have been expedient for Israeli interests, so we got the generic warning as usual, and 246 US Marines were blown sky-high, and presumably toasted by our "allies" before they hit the ground. Ostrovsky also relates that Reagan bombed Libya after the German disco bombing of American service-people was false-flagged. (No one calimed responsibilty, oddly enough.) Well, Khaddafi paid reparations for that after W threatened all non-cooperators, but I find it easier to believe that Khaddafi was in brown-pants mode & saying anything he thought would help. (Hey, all silver linings of neocon machination are worth savoring!) Lastly, as I implied in my first comment, Israel knew all about 9/11 beforehand, and danced a nice Hora as the Twin Towers went down.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/dan... (especially "Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth" by a Jewish publication)

The MIG 21 was nice! But Israel has sold our classified military technology to China, more in keeping with Israel's usual perfidy.

Got anything else, anything at all?

Or, just google "fox news israeli espionage" to see videos of Fox's Carl Cameron reporting on Israeli espionage in the USA. It's a must-see, even for those in denial or those cynically perpetrating denials. Ally or all lie?

What, me, ignarint?

Mr Adonis_Tate
It is hard to tell if you are a chronic liar or merely a fool.
If you had read the wikipedia link you added here you would have found that it says exactly what I wrote...
"The Jordanian king telephoned US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and asked for US air support to beat back the Syrian-backed attack. Kissinger instead told the king that he would ask the Government of Israel to intervene, a proposal the desperate king reluctantly accepted. Israel Air Force planes later made low over flights over the PLA tanks as a sign of warning. Soon the PLA began to withdraw".
Victor Ostrovsky... a reliable source you found...he says many things including that all he writes is disinformation...why I am not surprised that you use him as your main source.
of course Israel knew all about 9/11. That’s why Israel warned all Jews ahead of time. Didn't you know about it? The Jews/Israel are also behind WWI and WWII not to mention all the Christian blood we use for Passover. But hey... You LIKE Jews (only a racist will write something like I LIKE Jews/Arabs/African Americans)...I am sure that some of your best friends are Jewish...
And let me tell you a little secret: everybody spies on everybody. If you think the USA doesn't spy on Israel at least as much as Israel spies on the USA than you are even a greater fool than I originally thought.

Firstly, I'd like to commend the Independent for publishing such an evenhanded article. On the other hand, some of the online comments are very extreme. I can't believe that these are coming from members of the local community.

I'd like to address the comments written by send2shepherd. send2shepard's basic thesis can be distilled down to two assertions: (1) 9/11 and the War on Terror (if not most of the problems that the US faces today) are the result of our relationship with and support for the state of Israel. (2) The benefits that the US receives from its relationship with Israel are not commensurate with the costs.

I believe that both of these claims are false.

Firstly, there is absolutely no connection between 9/11 and our relationship with Israel. Until relatively recently, Al-Qaeda had no interest in Israel. As per the Wikipedia article on Al-Qaeda, "Al-Qaeda's [primary] objectives include the end of foreign influence in Muslim countries and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate." Capturing Jerusalem and ridding it of non-Muslims has become an Al-Qaeda objective (or at least part of their rhetoric), but this fairly recent development appears to be part of the Al-Qaeda effort to recruit Palestinians to the cause.

Let me point out just two of the benefits that the US receives from its relationship with Israel:

(1) The United States nominally has four allies in the Middle East (Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey), but three of these four countries routinely vote against the US in the United Nations. Also, only Israel and Turkey permit US forces to use bases on their territory, and it is unclear whether Turkey will continue to permit such access in the future.

(2) There is currently a delicate balance between pro-western/pro-US and anti-western/anti-US countries in the Middle East. If Israel were to be defeated by her many enemies, this balance would shift decisively against us.

On the subject of foreign aid, it should be mentioned that the US has provided substantial foreign aid to both Israel and Egypt. In the case of Israel, the benefits are tangible. (For example, part of the US aid to Israel has been spent on joint technology development leading to improved US military systems). On the other hand, aid to Egypt has generated little or no benefit for the US. Even anti-US rhetoric in the official Egyptian press continues unabated.

I'm not sure where to send send2shepard; perhaps the public library would be a good start.

PMF

To bill clausen:

In my article "Enforced Silence" I say that I am from German Jewish decent. What I leave out is that the other part is Armenian.

Before I spent 2 months is Israel and worked at a Palestinian refugee camp in Nablus I was in Armenia. Despite the far economic spread I noticed a strikingly similar yearning for peace and community in both cultures.

As I know many of the Teach-In On Israel event planners personally, I trust that they did a good job. It should always be made clear however that Palestinian violence (like Israeli violence) is not a made up event.

There is enough pain to go around. If you want a further example of this re-read my article "Enforced Silence"

1-I see a common theme among the supporters of the original article which is: U.S. is benefitting from supporting Israel. You can talk about MIGs, intelligence… but they are all weak. Is there benefit to US by supporting Israel? Yes. Is the benefit worth it? Absolutely not. Comments (by pmf) like 3 out 4 U.S. supporters do not always vote with US are ridiculous. Since when supporting means you agree 100% with the other person? Which points more to the problem at hand which is U.S. has (almost) always vetoed any U.N. resolution against Israel. U.N. stands for United Nations. Means representation of all of the countries in the world. This has to be wrong as nobody; even Ms. Betty can state that all of the nations in the world are (almost) always wrong. Pmf, your assertion that Israel has helped U.S. military tech as a justification for U.S. aid has more holes than Swiss cheese. BTW, I like all kinds of cheeses.

2-Dansome1, you state Israel does not oppress Palestinians because of their own victimizations in the past. OK. Then you say Israel used to let Palestinians have water, electricity, jobs… Fact is Israel took land that was occupied (not vacant) by terrorizing the Palestinian villages. Fact is that today Israel releases a few hundred Palestinian prisoners while arresting a few thousand. Fact is that each Palestinian gets a small fraction of the water that an Israeli gets. Fact is that many many things that Israel does are against basic human rights and condoned by many many nations.

3-Billclausen, you should re-read before commenting. I did not state Israel is responsible for suicide … and rather Israel’s actions help the problem. As for Al Q, they leverage the one-sided (wrong) U.S. support of Israel to achieve their demonic goals. I do not support any human being or organization killing another whether it is through killing self or through tanks and jets and missiles. However I do make distinction between those with superior power (Israel in ME) who use their power to impose their will to create what has been referred to as Apartheid with no regards with human rights. Where did I hear this analogy? On LinkTV talking about the concept discussed with Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

4-Amico, Radical Islam along with many other reasons is largely empowered because of lack of proper dialogue and support between U.S. and Moslem nations and the U.S. unequivocal support of what Israel does.

5-For Ms. Betty, well I am not going to comment because of her level of logic and knowledge. She should keep reading diverse viewpoints and keep on learning as we all do.

6-Sb2ny, I appreciate your re-reading of my original note and I accept your apology.

I like the people who are solution-minded and can and do at least try to see it from the other side’s point of view especially if they are on the side of power. BTW, what do you folks think about the following sources? www.linktv.org, www.democracynow.org, www.ifamericansknew.org?