Conservatives Descend on S.B.

When will the conservatives learn that the reason government does not work is because their mandate is to destroy government. Think of the S&L crisis (republican president) Katrina (republican president) the mortgage meltdown (republican president) the derivative mess (republican president) toxic asset bail out (republican president) too big to fail (republican president)? Young republicans are the latest crop of brainwashed shills, their arguments are disingenuous because they conveniently forget that they are the problem! In the words of Grover Norquist "Our goal is to shrink government so it can be drowned in a bath tub" and "we cannot wait for one of the states to fail".

Note: The following was sent to my tonight by a friend. (Part one of two)

"The "conservatives", usually Republicans or Libertarians, have long been advocates of "small government". They have been very vocal about the socialistic tendencies of welfare and government handouts. They still speak loud and clear about how government restrictions on business drives prices upward.

Yet when Lee Iococca's Chrysler Corporation was in financial trouble and couldn't find a buyer who would meet his sale price for the company, he unashamedly went to the government and received a handout equal to 10 years worth of handouts for every poor person in the country! His arguement was that if his company went under, too many jobs would be lost which would hurt the economy. What the government didn't realize was that if Chrysler went under, another company would take its place - the jobs would still be there and the only loser would be Mr. Iococca. Or was it that the new company might not grease the palms of the Washington power structure -- or just as bad, might grease different palms. Now we have the same situation - just different corporate players. But these auto companies, banks and Wall Street firms are just the most visible! There are many more that have fed at the public trough for decades - while firmly bad-mouthing our welfare system.

Our large tobacco farms are paid by our government to NOT grow tobacco, when all Washington had to say was, "Tobacco is harmful to our citizens' health -- grow something else". More greased palms, and big tobacco receives hundreds of millions of dollars to grow no tobacco - once again, the amount dwarfing the annual amount awarded to welfare to the poor.

Other farmers receive large government handouts to not grow wheat, corn, alfalfa, etc., because if they grew those crops it would drive the prices down - what a shame for the consumer trying desperately to make ends meet.

Wealthy ranchers are allowed to graze their herds on government land to keep their costs down and profits up. Logging interests are allowed to cut into our public forests, often leaving just enough trees next to roads to create the illusion of an existing forest. Mining companies are not only allowed to completely deface beautiful mountains, but are actually paid by the govenment to compensate for the depletion of the valuable ore they are extracting. Same story with oil companies - even when the oil companies close one refinery after another, simply to ensure that demand exceeds supply.

These titans of the business world who insist on letting the marketplace decide who succeeds or fails - who treat the word "socialism" as un-American - have no problem with sharing the wealth as long as the lions share comes to them!

Our so-called conservatives are hypocrites and liars.

Now let's take a look at the Liberals:

(part two of two)

Mostly Democrats, or Greens, are nowhere near as politically sophisticated as the conservatives, the liberals talk long and hard about the need for social justice. They point to each minority, asians, blacks, latinos, women,indigents, gays, etc., and use every oratorical trick in the book to assure each group that they are on their side. They talk about abortion, about freedom of religion, same-sex marriage, immigration (legal or not), simply because they want each of these minorities to register and vote for a Democrat. They talk about clean air, clean water, global warming, national health care, disaster relief - in general, they talk about all the things that interest most Americans. The trouble is, they don't vote the way they talk. They vote the way the people who fund their reelections tell them to vote.

They are also liars and hypocrites.

And we wonder why we're in this mess?

Nice post, billclausen.

The Paulson/GWBush initiated bailout of AIG etc has cost taxpayers $23.7 trillion. Yes, that is trillion... another way to say this is $23,700 billion or $23,700,000 million.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...

But hey, the wall street guys need their $100 million bonuses paid by the taxpayers. How else can they afford private security for protection?

Bill Clausen; Conservatives moderate the liberal agenda and liberals moderate the conservatives. Our two party system 'centers' the country and unfortunately hinders progress. So yes everyone can feel disappointed and feel used and ignored. But the current direction of the "conservative" crusading bomb dropping movement would result in a theocracy. So I identify with the democratic and green ideals.

This misnomer of conservative or that conservatives and independents are conservative is really frustrating. Anyone can be manipulative but current conservatives are the most disingenuous, most immoral and hypocritical political faction today.

Even honest conservatives agree that the current Reagan/Bush conservatives spent like drunken sailors. So the conservative agenda isn't fiscal responsibility or morality but a theocracy centered around this iconic financial conservative and mythical figure, President Reagan.

Again, the agenda of the conservatives is as stated by contactjohn above. Conservatives at least sometimes are frank about their intent to "drown government in a bathtub." But these particular conservative leaders are not upfront about their intent to install a theological state.

I really do feel bad for this U.S.A and these used and abused young adults up at the ranch, steeped in conservative agenda and operating on the wrong side of their lord.

Perhaps these children are too young to realize that we had a president named George Bush who trashed the constitution and the economy, tortured people to death, and set out on deceitful and disastrous wars that left the US less safe, all in the name of "conservative" values. Since it would be too painful to admit that "re-establishing" conservative values would mean examining what they can learn from the disastrous Bush/Cheney regime, they would rather trash Obama for trying to deal with the mess and go all the way back to Jimmy Carter to find a whipping boy. If they had an ounce of honesty they would look at the leaders of their own movement, whose actions made contemporary conservatism such a foul joke.

"whose actions made contemporary conservatism such a foul joke."

This all started back in the early 80's when Jerry Falwell and his ilk decided to inject their "cult" religious values in to politics. Evangelicals are no different than the Taliban. Fundamentalist nut jobs. Just look at the C Street cabal. A bigger bunch of brainwashed manipulative hypocrits you'll never meet.

Of course they are all supported by the rich elite who just can't get enough luxury and power. They're so obsessed that they willing sell out the jobs of fellow Americans and scream socialism at any hint the gov't might reign in their piggish attempts at engorging themselves through the whatever means neccessary. Sad so many live in our neighborhood.

Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck in 2012? Bring it on. Hopefully Rushbo will be the campaign manager.

Joe Wilson, the disgraced representative from NC who yelled out "You Lie" during President Obama's health care speech to Congress, is going to imprint these blank slates? Heaven help us all.

Meet your new boss, same as your old boss... vhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LsSppYxSHk

So if we could only get rid of those horrible republicans for a few more terms, this country could really get it's act together. Kind of like California.

LOL, I think it is hilarious when people blame liberals for California's failures. California is failing because its legislative system is designed for state with a population of about 50,000 rather than 34,000,000.

Its more likely than not. Much of California's economic & education problems are rooted in Proposition 13 which was pushed by Republicans and conservatives like Howard Jarvis.

(that was in response to spyfly2)

We just had 8 years of Republicans, or have you already conveniently forgotten who got us into these problems? The followers of Palin, Beck, and Limbaugh--and this is what the Republican party has become--aren't interested in governing, just in making noise, manufacturing lies and conspiracy theories, and drawing attention to themselves.

And one of the problems in California is that due to the ridiculous rules requiring two-thirds majorities on revenue bills, a small minority of obstructionist Republicans can hold the state hostage to its narrow ideology, which again isn't about governing, just making noise.

More evidence of how challenged by reality Republicans are: According to a new national poll (http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.c...), only 27% of Republicans say Obama actually won the election, 52% say that ACORN stole it, and 21% are undecided.

Although some might want to compare this with Democratic complaints over the 2000 election, Gore did actually win the national popular vote, but to believe that Obama didn't really win the 2008 election, one would have to think that 9.5 million votes were added or stolen.

Apparently a majority of Republicans would rather believe in such a vast conspiracy than accept that their guy (and gal) actually got fewer votes than the dark-skinned fascist/socialist alien who wants to destroy their freedom.

Quote " The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy ; that is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness ." John Kenneth Galbraith

Down with the two party system and its idealogues on both sides. Up with coherent thought, civil dialogue, and issue-based politics.

Don McDermott: I have heard many critics of the Republican party bring up the issue of their support of the Religious Right (I'm assuming that is what you are referring to) but I would say that in reality the Republican Party simply dangles the carrot of their putative theology in order to get votes the same way the Democrats manipulate people with their anti-war palave while a cursory look at the way things are in this country suggests the the ideals of the Prince of Peace are nowhere near being realized.

"anti-war palaver"

Here we go again with some folks using this as their opinion and editorial page rather than as a comment section. Hey, Independent, put a lid of these folks. Do it by the inch or by the number of words. When I see these long lines at the buffet, I just pass it by. For me it is a nuisance, like the next door neighbor with that constantly loud tv or outside cell phone calls. Ugh.

If you look at Mr. Iaccoca's latest book he stated during the Bush administration that he was amazed that nobody in his arena was calling the administration on their poor tactics and called, if I remember correctly, to "throw the bums out."

Apparently, the real Neverland is located near the top of Refugio. And the kiddies still flock to worship a myth of criminal & disastrous proportions that is still paying ever-dwindling trickle-down dividends in the Kingdom of Narcissisia in 2009.

Remember folks: This presidential buffoon is responsible for most if not all the deregulation and corporate installation into positions of government that is currently bring down our wonderful little house of crows. Not to mention the willful blood on his inglorious hands.

Whenever I pass the barred and locked gates of #3333, I say a little prayer-----"Please, stoke the embers and turn him over. We'd like him well-done."

"What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is the predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others, and has nothing to do with us being free and prosperous?

What if Conservatives who preach small government wake up and realize that our interventionist foreign policy provides the greatest incentive to expand the government?

What if Conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world?

What if the American people woke up and understood that the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests?

What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations?

What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq?

What if a military draft is being planned for for the wars that would spread if our foreign policy is not changed?

What if the American people learned the truth, that our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security, that it never changes from one administration to the next?

What if war in preparation for war is a racket serving the special interests?

What if President Obama is completely wrong about Afghanistan and it turns out worse than Iraq and Vietnam put together?"

-Ron Paul (REPUBLICAN Congressman from Texas)

More: http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-02-13/ron...

Regardless of what one thinks of these knuckleheads, their *conferences* are illegal on the old Tip Top (Reagan) Ranch. They do not have a Conditional Use Permit for these conferences.,

And their buses, limos, and vans navigating one of the steepest, most narrow and pot holed road in the County is a danger to all who legitimately use Refugio Rd.

The irony is that when Reagan was President The government hauled so many tons of equipment up Refugio Rd in huge military trucks that they completely destroyed the thin pavement and we now have more patched pot holes than any road anywhere.

To add insult to injury, when Reagan left office and the government hauled all those tons of equipment back down the mountain they had the Reagan driveway repaved. But Refugio Rd? Just more potholes.

You progressives still supporting Obama sure are a naive bunch, I have to say that.

This is absolutely ridiculous. You talk trash on George Bush and don't realize that Obama is doing all of the same things that Bush did, and worse! He has increased military spending, replaced US troops in Iraq with military contractors and has kept virtually none of the promises he made. He is a FRONT MAN for the global elite, just like George Bush was.

The government will ALWAYS be controlled by special interests. If you think the government has ever been controlled by "Republicans" then you are sorely misinformed. The Republicans and Democrats are controlled by special interests. The ONLY WAY to get rid of special interests is to take away their feeding trough by following the Constitution and having an extremely limited, small Federal Government. No more overseas empire. The special interests would disappear TOMORROW because they would have no MONEY to go and fight for!! This concept is so simple it amazes me that there is only one politician in the entire country who has figured it out (Ron Paul).

These conservatives at this meeting are frauds. They would have you believe that they are actually "conservative", but they are just as statist as any establishment Democrat if they have not realized the false left/right paradigm that has swallowed our country whole. The only way out of this is by taking as much power from the Federal Government as possible and letting a truly free market take over. In a truly free market, corporations will not gain monopoly control through government coercion and will not be as big. Anybody would be able to compete with them, as government is the biggest obstacle to entry in the marketplace. Anybody would be able to take a piece of their profits, and many more people would. This would spread the wealth far better than any government program and provide more goods and services that people actually demand.

Any sort of forced wealth transmitting schemes by the Democrats or Republicans (including bank bailouts) are the most immoral aspect of government that has appeared in the last century. I mean, who controls government? Certainly not the people.. It's the people who own the corporations that benefit so much from government policy. If you really care about poor people, then you need to learn about how an honest monetary policy where banks can't just counterfeit money into existence and charge interest on it, a good commodity backed monetary standard would do so much more to help the poor, and best of all it is MORAL.

A commodity-based monetary standard is moral based on what objective criteria?

"You talk trash on George Bush and don't realize that Obama is doing all of the same things that Bush did" -Loonpt- So true, so true.

Loonpt: I noticed (as I write this) you got a "thumbs down" on your comment. I wonder who you offended: The Republicrats or the Demicans?

Let me also add to the offensive comments of Loonpt by adding that "hope and change" Obama also voted for the re authorization of the Patriot Act in 2006.

Oh yes, I give Loonpt a thumbs up click for pointing out what a few of us have known for a long time.

Having spent some time reading comments in the Twin Cities. com of a similar political nature, I am pleased that we can disagree ideologically here in SB without being stupid or nasty. Most of the time, anyway.

Most of the kids up there are just having a good time on the ranch, little as it is, and will talk of the experience for a long time. They were not even born when Reagan was spending as much time on the hill as in the White House.

I doubt if these young Conservatives even understand the meaning of conservative. But they are our future, the youth of America. Let us hope they learn something besides what they heard at the dinner tables.

So "Obama is doing all of the same things that Bush did, and worse!" Bush tortured people to death, lied the US into a war in Iraq, ran a war in Afghanistan into a possibly unwinnable mess, turned governmental regulatory agencies over to people who wanted to dismantle them and let the so-called free market solve all our problems, stood in the way of doing anything about global warming, alienated our foreign allies, appointed right-wing ideologues to the federal courts, including the Supreme Court, had a Justice Department that spent less time pursuing civil rights issues than finding ways to destroy political enemies--The claim that Obama is doing these same things is nuts.