Man Jumps from Cold Spring Bridge

Doesn't this mean the guy somehow got over the temporary fencing now in place?

Have you seen the temporary "fencing"? It is that bright orange plastic fencing, similar to the plastic that holds a 6-pack together. May he rest in peace.

How mny more people have to lose their lives before the city does something! Who cares if it's not 'eye' appealing or pretty..if it helps prevent these events all measures should be taken. For all those that have lost their lives, RIP.

If it is not the bridge, it is the train — you can't fence in all of the tracks and you cannot keep anybody from doing it when he/she is desperate. The only thing would be changing the social environment, the circumstances, offering care and help. But this is all eliminated or cut down because of the cost, we rather put money into a bridge barrier or armored vehicles.

pinkerbell, that stuff is a lot stronger than a 6-pack holder. It's there as a temporary safety measure for the workers. It's also the same height as the barrier.

Someone on EdHat said all of the fencing was intact, so apparently this guy somehow managed to climb around or over the barrier and jump.

sunnyflw, this is a state highway -- the city has nothing to do with it. And many people object because these suicide barriers are not proven to work, and they cost millions that could have been spent on highway safety (spending that unlike barriers is proven to save lives).

A recent University of Toronto study proved that suicides by jumping from all bridges in Toronto went down by 3.8 suicides/per year when a barrier was introduced on the most popular bridge, the Bloor Street Viaduct.

All 6 surviving Golden Gate Bridge jump survivors support the installation of barriers on bridges.

You already posted this in another thread, and you were wrong then too. The authors of that study concluded there was no evidence that the barrier reduced suicides by jumping.

Annie, please just go see a therapist. You'll never work your demons out here.

Whether or not you have conclusive studies to prove a barrier in a similar situation is phenomenally successful (not that I personally do or don't), what should be noted is that people suffering from severe depression aren't constantly "desperate," they are sick. And it ebbs and wanes. If you thwart an attempt once, chances are that you've given them one more day to live. You've helped them beat an episode. I frankly think money could be better used to help these under-funded, under-appreciated people than in other areas where efforts are consistently being made.

Whether it's a statistically significant number of lives or just one, the latter is enough.

http://www.independent.com/obits/2010...

I hope this man rests in peace and that his family in friends can find their own as well.

sevendolphins, you say, "A recent University of Toronto study proved that suicides by jumping from all bridges in Toronto went down by 3.8 suicides/per year when a barrier was introduced on the most popular bridge, the Bloor Street Viaduct." Are you lying or just honestly misinformed? Doing an online search I found this: "The researchers found that annual rates of suicide by jumping in Toronto were unchanged between the periods before and after the erection of the barrier (56.4 versus 56.6; P = 0.95). While a mean of 9.3 suicides occurred annually at Bloor Street Viaduct before construction of the barrier, none occurred after the barrier was erected. Yearly rates of suicide by jumping from other bridges (14.2 versus 8.7) and buildings (42.7 versus 38.5) were higher after the barrier at Bloor Street Viaduct was constructed compared to the period before the barrier was erected, although these findings were significant only for other bridges." http://www.doctorslounge.com/index.ph... In other words, just as everyone else is saying, if one prevents a suicidal person from killing themselves in one place there are almost infinite other places for them to go. I hike 3 to 4 times a week and see many, many places for one to jump and die. Do you want to put barriers around ALL those places? (Even if you do want to, it simply isn't possible.) Why the fixation on this ONE bridge? Once everyone knows it is no longer easy to jump from, the suicidal people will go elsewhere and jump, or do whatever they will do to try to kill themselves, and will not give that bridge a single thought. It is not a lack of compassion for the suicidal or their friends and family, it merely is a recognition of the complete waste of funds. The "feel good" method of trying, and failing, to fix a problem...

Jumping off buildings or out of trees is a category of suicide that was not ever included in the statistical definition for these studies. To append new categories ex post facto vitiates the scientific result.

Jumping off bridges went down in Toronto after introduction of the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier, by 3.8 lives saved per year.

*TOTAL* suicide rates in Toronto and Ontario went down after introduction of the Bloor barrier too. One cannot claim that everyone who would have jumped off Bloor switched to another method in general.

But choosing one category out of many (buildings and trees) and arguing that frustrated Bloor street jumpers all suddenly learned about that one technique and started employing it is statistically biased.

All 6 surviving Golden Gate Bridge jump survivors support the installation of barriers on bridges.

All very good evidence that a barrier on Cold Spring will save lives.

"The construction of a barrier to prevent suicide on a Toronto bridge that had the world's second-highest rate of suicide by jumping prevented suicides at that specific location,"

"prevented suicides at that specific location" - that is the whole point of the barrier at Cold Springs Bridge. Some people may find somewhere else to jump; others may think again before trying again. That much is accepted.

How can money prevent a suicide that happens not to someone with known problems, but someone who just suddenly decides to end their life without anyone else knowing? Such as the major in Texas who recently took the life of her daughter and herself, and there was absolutely no indication of anything wrong.

Of course there will be people who take their lives in a myriad of different ways, unexpectedly or not. However, hotspots are a problem, and should be dealt with for the sake of all those involved.

And the proposed barrier does not make the bridge ugly - just different.

MichelleR, sevendolphins (a.k.a. Anne Trent) regularly misreads or misrepresents the scientific literature, as you've already learned.

FYI, a couple of years ago she launched a vicious online smear campaign against Professor Glasgow at UCSB when he pointed out the same things this study said, so brace yourself ...

just a slight correction here. The last time I checked, US 101 is around 15 miles from the bridge, that's not nearby. You guys need to buy a good map or GPS and realize that the highway is 154. Just an independent observation here.

Garrett Glasgow's study...

http://www.polsci.ucsb.edu/faculty/gl...

*only* considered suicides by jumping off *bridges*.

The suicide rate by jumping off bridges in Toronto declined by 3.8 suicides per year after the Bloor Street Viaduct barrirer was built.

Strong evidence that a barrier on Cold Spring will *save lives*.

Now, ex post facto, the anti-barrier groups want to change categories from `jumping off bridges' to `all jumping'. Suicides by `all jumping' includes jumping off buildings, out of trees, off the roof of a home, off of a stepladder, etc.

Ex post facto redefinition of the category of interest is biased.

Nice thing about the U Toronto paper... they explicitly use Poisson statistics, which Glasgow explicitly argued against several years ago. If he were consistent, he'd dismiss the U Toronto paper for incorrect use of Poisson statistics. But we can all change our minds.

Anne, you're beyond help. Good luck.

People need help not barriers.

>>"Nice thing about the U Toronto paper..."

The other nice thing about the U Toronto paper is that is says exactly what Glasgow said 2 years ago about barriers.

No, Glasgow used *bridges*, and never included any study of # buildings or other jumping points.

The U Toronto study definitely shows that after the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier was built, overall suicide rates as well as the suicide rate by jumping off bridges **DECLINED**.

Your ad hominem attacks are pointless.

>>"No study has shown a statistical drop in overall rates of suicide after the construction of a barrier on a bridge. It is unclear whether barriers prevent suicides or simply result in people substituting one bridge for another or attempting suicide by other means. ... Therefore barriers may not decrease suicide rates when comparable locations are available."

Guess which report said that?

It's easy for people who haven't lost someone close to speak up on this subject.

If a barrier saves 1 life long enough for someone to get help, it is worth it.

Those who argue about the aesthetics of the bridge being ruined must be about the shallowest of people around. Aesthetics are worth more than human freaking life?

cycleboy, you must be new to this debate. The reason many people oppose this project is because it diverts scarce highway safety money from other projects to a project that's not proven to do any good at all (namely, the suicide barrier).

But I guess it's easy to push for the barrier if you've never lost anyone to a traffic accident.

Not true - the Toronto study showed that a barrier prevents suicides at the barrier. That is not "no good at all".

And that last sentence makes no sense; it is throwing an oddball into the conversation because how does pushing for the barrier translate into no empathy for a traffic accident fatality. Anyone who would push for the barrier, is more likely to have empathy for any fatality. Non sequitur.

The sole reason of the objectors appears to be the aesthetics, and they are hyping studies to bolster their case.

tabatha, I very seldom see the bridge, and even if I did, I wouldn't get all hot and bothered if it was more or less aesthetically pleasing to my eye as I drove across it for a minute or two. No, just quit that nonsense. Human life, even animal life, means more to me, and to most of us here, than does a brief moment of subjective "beauty". Prove to me that the barrier will indeed significantly decrease the suicide rate while NOT adversely changing the rate of traffic accidents which might otherwise be avoided by applying those funds to various worthy projects, and I'll reconsider. Until then, I remain unconvinced that this project is anything more than a "feel good" band-aid that does nothing more than waste public money (mine and yours...)

The actual numbers in the U Toronto paper, at URL:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/3...

state that after installation of the Bloor Street Viaduct Barrier:

1)The overall suicide rate for Toronto dropped by 28 suicides per year, from 253.4 per year to 225.4 per year

2)The overall suicide rate for the province of Ontario dropped by 83.9 suicides per year, from 836.4 per year to 752.5 per year.

3)The overall rate of suicide by jumping off bridges dropped by 3.7 suicides per year, from 17.9 per year to 14.2 per year. (Differs from 3.8 stated previously due to rounding)

That table is prima facie evidence that suicide by jumping off bridges most definitely declined after introduction of a bridge barrier.

Don't forget that the 6 surviving Golden Gate Bridge jumpers all support barriers, a fact that takes head-on one of the criticism of Seiden's conclusions. Seiden followed hundreds of suicidal people found on the Golden Gate Bridge and found that only 6% went on to commit suicide. But the anti-barrier people say the other 94% weren't serious. Well, the 6 surviving Golden Gate Bridge jumpers were serious enough to jump off the Golden Gate bridge; they survived miraculously, and guess what? They support barriers on bridges as a way to save lives.

Please see the quote from this study that I provided above, or go read it for yourself. The post above is just another desperate attempt by Anne Trent to avoid coming to grips with reality.

Tabitha, you see a benefit in someone jumping to their death from a building rather than a bridge? That's worth $4 million in highway safety money to you?

Whatever quotes are in the paper by the Toronto group, their numbers clearly indicate that the total suicide rate in Toronto and Ontario decreased after introduction of the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier, and the rate of jumping off bridges in Toronto decreased after introduction of the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier.

Why should we believe your interpretation of this study over that of the people that wrote it?

I am totally with jnm99! All the big budget cuts are things that can really try to help people, rather than a lot of other useless and cosmetic bandaids, for sure! I never cease to be amazed at those "cornhusks" on the east side!!! Not impressed, but amazed at the cost of something so basically frivolous.

How easy is it to walk out in front of a speeding eighteen wheeler? Pretty easy anywhere along the 101.
How about addressing the reasons that so many people around here want to end their lives prematurely.

A barrier is just a first step.

Next: Padded Knives, foam cars, all are on the horizon.

America handles this like all its problems....once the horse has left....the barn is thoroughly locked and patroled by the homeleand security jerks.

Close off all bridges, all high buildings, no more planes........

life in a pc society

Can we please spend our tax dollars helping people who feel suicidal and divert the millions going into bridge barriers towards more and more effective mental health programs? Bridges aren't the issue. The sad reality is our society's inability to assist suicidal people appropriately. It's not where they choose to end their lives but rather, why they are choosing to end their lives. Barriers on bridges will not solve the bigger issue. I know one person who admitted to me that the beauty of seeing the Golden Gate Bridge from Alcatraz kept him from jumping off it as was his initial intention. How many others are out there who responded similarly to the healing power of the aesthetic? They are not going to come forward to admit it like the 6 surviving Golden Gate Bridge jumpers did. We need to think differently about this important social issue.

I'm not interpreting, and the authors of the study themselves point out:

"Both the overall rate of suicides in Toronto and the rate of suicides by means other than jumping decreased by 28 suicides per year in the period after the barrier (all Toronto suicides per year: 253.4 v 225.4, P=0.05... The decrease in overall rate of suicide in Toronto bordered on statistical significance...

The overall annual rate of suicides in Ontario (excluding Toronto) also decreased significantly in the period after the barrier (836.4 v 752.5, P=0.01)."

The numbers are the numbers; it is the local anti-barrier groups who have made an interpretation by omitting the numbers that show overall suicide rates and the rate of jumping off of bridges declined after introduction of the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier.

GiGi... we spend $40 million on Santa Barbara County public mental health services each year. The Cold Spring Barrier's yearly cost is 1/400 of that amount, 0.25%, at $100,000 per year over its lifetime.

Our local mental health services have unfortunately been the source of considerable waste and chaos. Since barriers have been shown by scientific evidence to save lives, seems to me we should build the barrier *and* work hard to make sure the huge $40 million/year expenditure on mental health services is well spent.

Here we go again: The Anti-Barrierists vs The Barrierists.

MEMO FROM REALITY TO ALL: The suicide barriers on the Cold Springs Bridge will be installed. Discussion over aesthetic or humanitarian merits (or lack thereof) as they pertain to this particular bridge will become erstmore moot.

Y'all can bitch about other things pertaining to the bridge (as you will) and dance the rickety mambo all over again after the first person fails or succeeds in defeating the barrier by swandiving into the history books. Or not.

Maybe this poor fellow wanted to be the last? Most of these jumpers do so to permanently solve a temporary problem. Relatively speaking, of course.

Until we might know the reasons why this guy chose and executed his own time of departure, none of us knows squat.

He jumped.
Now don't go following him.

sevendolphins, you didn't answer my question.

The authors of this study conclude: "It is unclear whether barriers prevent suicides or simply result in people substituting one bridge for another or attempting suicide by other means."

Why should we believe your interpretation of these results over that of the people that wrote the study?

Everyone should believe what the authors point out: the overall suicide rate went down in both Toronto and Ontario after installation of the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier.

I can't imagine how substituting one bridge for another causes a reduction in the overall suicide rate.

Because, as they say in the study, people apparently also substituted tall buildings.

Substituting tall buildings would not cause any reduction in the overall Toronto and Ontario suicide rates.

The BMJ authors explicitly note a significant reduction in overall Toronto and Ontario rates after completion of the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier.

They also say that barriers aren't proven to save lives, but you seem to keep missing that point.

OK, rather that waste more time arguing with an automaton, I'll just post a link to the study and let others read it for themselves. Compare this to the description that Anne Trent (sevendolphins) provides for this study, and you'll see just how dishonest the barrier supporters can be.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/3...

Once again, a massive slew of comments and all we're doing is continuing to ignore the people who need our help before they decide suicide is their last resort... Like others have said here, if it's not off a bridge or building, it'll be in front of a train or car, an overdose, a gun, a rope and/or sadly, by some other tragic method. The bottom line is that the person suffering needs help BEFORE it comes to this.

Rest in peace sir, I, like many others, am truly sorry you felt there was no other way to get through whatever it was you were struggling with.

@Pinatubo - Thanks for the link!!

You're welcome!

We spend $40 million a year on public Santa Barbara County mental health services... I cannot agree that amounts to `ignoring people who need our help'.

6 survivors of Golden Gate Bridge jumps support a barrier... seems to me we are listening.

A fair number of interviews with survivors of suicide attempt indicate that small measures like a barrier in a dangerous place convince them that *somebody cares*. An absence of a barrier often is interpreted as a message that *nobody cares*.

Just look at the first two lines of this table in the U Toronto study:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/3...

It is very clear from those two lines that a significant reduction in Toronto and Ontario suicide rates occurred after construction of the Bloor Street Viaduct barrier.

Line 5 shows the rate of jumping off bridges in Toronto went down by 3.7 suicides per year. Almost 4 saved lives a year is a big, big deal!

It is true that certain aggregations of suicide methods did *not* show a decline, like, jumping off of stepladders + jumping out of trees + jumping off of toilet seats + jumping off of balconies + jumping off buildings. That aggregation is chosen in an ex post facto manner, and is biased therefore.

I am not Annie Trent. More ad hominem (actually, ad feminem) discussions, which is the usual nature of the anti-barrier people. Just remember Marc McGinnes shouting at SBCAG and getting ejected from a public meeting:

http://www.independent.com/news/2009/...

Bullying is unfortunately a technique the anti-barrier people employ.

I figured out that sevendolphins was Anne Trent from a few different clues. The first was when sevendolphins accidentally posted as snugspout, and then said snugspout was her partner. snugspout and sevendolphins are both vehemently pro-barrier.

From reading old posts I could determine that snugspout was a man into bicycling, and sevendolphins was a woman. Then I found out that Paul Trent is way into bicycling.

From there I was able to figure out that sevendolphins is Anne Trent.

It's not as much fun slandering people online once your identity is revealed, is it Annie?

I am not Annie Trent. And snugspout is howling with laughter that you think she is male.

why did my comment get removed?? because i said that sevendolphins probably owns a suicide fence construction company?

Oh my gosh! I just checked snugspout's profile, and it does indeed say "female"!

Unfortunately for you Annie I know how to check the google cache of that page:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...

That line about being female was added sometime since July 9th. snugspout's last post was April 17th. So we know that snugspout specifically logged in only to change what that account profile said sometime in the last 10 days.

In other words, Paul just changed his account today to say "female" to try to cover up the fact that you are Anne Trent.

sevendolphins = Anne Trent

Conclusions invariably come after investigation, and not before. Only a blockhead cudgels his brains on his own, or together in a group to "find a solution" or "evolve an idea" without making any investigation.

Four million dollars for a FENCE. & People wonder why California is broke...it makes ME want to commit suicide for not bidding on the job!

Outrageous.

lets seeee 4 million dollars, divided by 75 cents a day, divided by 365 days in a year...equals 14,611 starving children that could be fed for a year for the cost of this fence that MAY prevent a couple nitwits from commiting suicide. California, your priorities are junk, enjoy your journey to bankruptcy.

Drove across the bridge over the weekend and that orange barrier is terribly distracting while driving across... it should go down until the judge makes a final decision because it grabs the eye and makes it harder to focus on oncoming traffic.

When we drove over it must have been soon after the person who jumped had been discovered, police were going through his car. Maybe the Independent will provide more info about the man, maybe we will learn he had a terminal illness and he didn't want to go through it, maybe he wanted to be the one in control of how he died.

My father was very sick and often spoke of ending his life on his own terms. One of his friends who had the same disease opted to jump off of Cold Springs bridge. My father was envious, felt that he would be too afraid to do that. In the end, my father died a slow and horrifying death, losing the ability to move his muscles one by one and getting to a point of being a conscious corpse for the last few months of his life. Sometimes I wish that he had chosen to fly, although it would have been sad, he would not have suffered for as long and as intensely as he did.

Who are we to decide that people cannot take control of how they die? We push our feelings onto them and tell them what we want is more important... why can't our dying be personal? I guess that I have a different perspective now after seeing the human suffering that can happen...