What Next, Puritans?

What religion does a person have to be before you consider them a real American like you?

One that doesn't threaten to murder cartoonists.

So if a Christian kills an abortion doctor, we strip all Christians of their citizenship?

Touche!

Tu quoque? Surely you can't be serious.

It's also somewhat insincere of you to suggest that the man that murdered Dr. Tiller is anyway representative of the Christian community as a whole, or even a substantial portion thereof. Tiller's killer represents the extreme fringe of the Christianity, and he is acknowledged as such in nearly every form of law, media and culture in this country. That's the difference you fail to see. There is no such acknowledgement from the Islamic community, except from the liberal fringe and those that condemn the subjugation of women and the restriction of speech and expression are absolutely and without question the fringe of Islam.

So, if you can make any reasonable argument that the men who murdered Theo van Gogh, for instance, somehow represent the fringe of Islam, I'm willing to listen. The deck is clearly stacked against you though, because last I checked, the Pope isn't issuing fatwas on abortion doctors.

Now I won't dare suggest that which ever religion is less violent is therefore "better." That's not the argument I'm trying to make here at all so please don't be confused. If it were up to me, we would dismiss all these fairytales immediately. In my opinion it's safe to acknowledge that Islam presents a far greater threat to freedom and democracy than any other religion, you know, the low hanging fruit. We can take on the creationists next week.

My point is that you can't take away the constitutional rights of Americans because they profess a religion some of whose leaders say or do things you find offensive.

The things I've mentioned, that you suggest "I" find offensive, are objectively offensive by any rational measure you might choose.

Moral relativism will be the undoing of liberal democracy.

"Objectively" offensive? Do you mean according to God? Or by "rational" do you mean to refer to your beliefs and anyone who agrees with them, as though the rest of us are to take you as the universal, objective, bias-free standard of human moral behavior? In particular, by what objective measure would you disqualify American citizens from citizenship for beliefs or actions that you oppose?

Actually, my last question should have been sharper: By what objective, rational measure would you disqualify American citizens from the rights of citizenship for beliefs and actions not ascribable to them but to foreign clerics to whom they have no necessary duty of obedience?

I propose a pigmentation test.

Those "Christians" who kill abortion doctors are very few and far between and do not represent Christianity. On the other hand, would you really want to live in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Libya, and the multitude of other Islamic countries? (Yes, rhetorical indeed) Go to one of those countries, walk around in a pair of shorts (especially if you are female) and see how long you last before the Long Arm of the law catches up with you and it will become clear where freedom reigns. Also, go to North Korea, do some Bible/Koran/Talmudic/whatever preaching and see how long you last. Yep, Western society seems to have struck a nice balance hasn't it?

Having said that, I think the whole deal that is going on in Europe about forcing Muslim women to take off their veils is pure reactionary bigotry.

Religious fanatics on one end, anti-religious fanatics on the other hand. Everyone needs to grow up, learn that others don't share their view, and keep vigilant that the freedoms we enjoy in America remain.