It may be premature to declare efforts to update the City of Santa Barbara’s General Plan dead in the water, but after the explosive debate at this Friday’s council subcommittee hearing, it would take nothing less than cosmic mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to bring it back to life. There, last-ditch efforts to hammer out a compromise over what downtown housing densities would be allowed blew up into a surly, ideological, and personal exchange between Councilmembers Das Williams and Dale Francisco, who represent the yin and yang of the starkly split council where housing densities are concerned.
Both Williams and Francisco — often polar lightning rods during council deliberations — were patronizing, dismissive, and provocative at times. Williams walked out before the meeting was over. But given the radical differences between the two in terms of their visions of what Santa Barbara is and what it could be, as far as preservation of a viable middle class is concerned, it’s doubtful negotiations would have been fruitful even if the two council antagonists had been on their choir boy best behavior.
City Planning staff had hoped to put the city’s proposed new General Plan — the document guiding what kind of growth will be allowed, accommodated, and encouraged over the next 20 years — to a council vote this coming Tuesday. Not coincidentally, that happens to be Williams’ last day on the dais, his term being foreshortened one year since winning election as the region’s newest Assembly member.
Although Williams is part of a four-member majority that strongly supports increasing downtown residential densities as a strategy for expanding affordable housing opportunities for middle class workers, a five-vote super majority is required to get the new General Plan passed. Francisco — who heads the council minority concerned that increased downtown densities will increase crime rates and destroy Santa Barbara’s historic character — is regarded as the essential swing vote to get anything approved.
To that end, Williams and Francisco formed an ad hoc subcommittee three weeks ago — also joined by anti-density Councilmember Frank Hotchkiss — to see if any compromise was possible. Ironically, it was the initial progress of this subcommittee that inspired eight community groups — the so-called “smart-growthers’” versus traditional slow-growthers — that have been warring for 15 years over issues of affordability, height, density, and community character to see if they could find common ground. Astonishingly and historically, these groups did just that last week and announced their results to the City Council last Tuesday.
As practical matter, the impasse reached Friday between Williams and Francisco will effectively postpone any resolution of the General Plan — already five years and $3 million in the making — until after next November’s City Council elections, when these issues will likely emerge as defining campaign issues. (Anti-density Councilmembers Michael Self and Dale Francisco are up for reelection.) Indirectly, this impasse will also make it that much harder to find a replacement for Williams on the council. With the council split 3-3 after Williams’s departure, it’s increasingly unlikely any of the candidates —15 and rising — now seeking the council appointment can muster the four votes needed. Should no appointment be possible, the council will have to hobble through the next year with less than a full roster.
The Tide Turns Ugly
The fireworks started in earnest when Francisco expressed deep doubts that any new residential densities should be allowed downtown — as proposed in the draft General Plan update — to encourage the development of affordable housing. In the plan is a proposal that in certain downtown neighborhoods, developers would be allowed to build more units per acre than the zoning ordinance would normally allow, as long as those units were smaller in size. The smaller the units, the more could be built. (But no matter how many units were built, the overall maximum square footage would not budge.) Smaller units, the thinking goes, would be less expensive, hence more within the grasp of middle class workers. This new approach — known as average size zoning — stands in contrast to what’s on the books now, which calibrates allowable development according to the number of proposed bedrooms, no matter how big or small they might be. Because of this, existing zoning rules effectively encourage developers to maximize the size of their units, hence the proliferation of larger luxury condominiums.
While Francisco buys into “average size zoning” in concept, he balked at some of the maximum densities that under certain circumstances could be approved under the new General Plan. For example, if developers maxed out the number of smaller units buildable on an acre of land — and then took advantage of certain incentives suggested to encourage the development of rental housing — they could build up to 67 units per acre. That’s far more than Francisco and many others in the traditional slow-growth camp are comfortable with. But a majority of councilmembers, city staff, many in the development community, and affordable housing advocates insist such densities are absolutely crucial to making such projects economically viable. Furthermore, Williams argued that only by giving developers an incentive to construct higher density developments in certain downtown neighborhoods — along Haley and Cota streets for example — can they be lured away from developing smaller but more high-end projects in residential neighborhoods where land values are lower than in downtown.
With this having been discussed, Williams demanded of Francisco, “What’s the problem?” Francisco replied, “The problem is that we don’t want to an experiment on downtown Santa Barbara, which is the precious crown jewel.” Later on, he would add, “These are not Lego blocks. This is a real city with real people.”
Williams retorted, “What you seem to have the understanding gap on is that there is a real already. Our problem is that we’re expelling our young people to Oxnard and Lompoc and Santa Maria.” Without increasing densities, Williams argued, Santa Barbara would go the way of other wealthy enclaves, where the rich and poor increase in number, but the middle class shrinks into irrelevance. Then, a clearly frustrated Williams accused Francisco of bargaining in bad faith. “To me it is clear you have wasted this community’s time, that you had no intent in the first place of ever saying where you thought increased density was appropriate.”
Francisco has always been skeptical that market rate units — no matter how small — could fall within the economic grasp of most downtown workers. Santa Barbara has already done everything it could have done to promote affordable housing, he said; to do more is just not realistic. “I don’t believe you’re going to save the middle class, Das. This is a wealthy community for a reason. It’s irrational to try to build affordable housing in Beverly Hills, Venice, or in Santa Barbara. We’ve done the best we can. ”
Later, when Williams continued about the expulsion of the middle class, Francisco interrupted with a sarcastic, “Yea, yea, yea, the extinction of the middle class.”
Williams pointed out that if he managed to buy a 900-square-foot condo on an income of $55,000, then the task was not as impossible as Francisco contended. Francisco expressed skepticism that many people making $55,000 could hope to buy a condo in Santa Barbara. “I see no reason to experiment with our downtown,” he said. Williams countered that every major improvement in downtown over the past 30 years was the product of an experiment instigated by city hall. “Some of those experiments were good; some were terrible,” Francisco replied.
Frank Hotchkiss — an ally of Francisco’s — argued it was futile to even try to create a space for young Santa Barbarans making their way into the workforce. “The kids are not going to stick around in the old home town no matter how wonderful it is,” he said. “I just need to blow that concept out of the water.”
Williams accused Francisco of engaging in a “a charade,” meaning he never sincerely meant to find common ground. “Das, let us not descend into insults,” Francisco replied. “I have put at least as much time into this as you have, Das. This is not a charade. I am not getting emails from people saying, ‘Please, please, please increase density in Santa Barbara.’ I get emails from people saying just the opposite.” Francisco argued increased density would beget only increased traffic congestion and that would create problems for downtown businesses. Instead, he said he was committed to a platform of “easy parking, no vagrants, and no graffiti.”
Williams countered that congestion would be reduced by concentrating new development in certain downtown neighborhoods — where the infrastructure could handle it — rather than allowing it to sprawl throughout the metropolitan areas, further challenging intersections that are already struggling to maintain adequate service levels.
Francisco argued that the only affordable housing that can be realistically developed is rental housing. To that end, he said he supported increased densities for downtown rental projects.
Williams challenged Francisco to name one rental project built in Santa Barbara over the past 20 years. Francisco acknowledged he couldn’t name one. City planners have reported that no private developers have proposed rentals in any number since federal tax laws changed in 1986, effectively yanking the plug on the private rental market. “This is all speculative,” Williams said. “This is all hope. I’m not willing to leave the future of Santa Barbara dependent upon some hope.”
Francisco accused Williams of trying to rush the General Plan update through while he was still on the council. But the plan was more important than that, and he would not be rushed. Williams complained that he and the smart-growth councilmembers had compromised on a number of key items — agreeing to a de facto height restriction of 45 feet rather than the 60 feet now allowed for — and that Francisco’s camp hadn’t budged. “You are obstructing in order to get what you want,” replied Williams. “Two can play at that game.” Williams said voters would decide who was right come next November, when Francisco and his supporter Michael Self were up for reelection. “We can obstruct, too, and push it to 2012.”
On That Note …
Afterward, city planner Betty Wiess sought to salvage some shred of possibility out of the rhetorical crossfire between Williams and Francisco. After spending five grueling years on this effort, Weiss — who’s come in for criticism over the amount of time and money spent on the General Plan update process — queried Francisco to see if he could support the conceptual notion that there might be greater incentives given to developers to build rental housing in certain parts of the city as opposed to others. Francisco was noncommittal on that, prompting Williams to object that any further inquiry was fruitless. “You’re just negotiating against yourself,” he told Weiss. It was especially pointless, Williams said, “given how much I’ve given already,” referring to concessions about building heights and aggressive traffic control plans — no more free parking downtown — so controversial they were dead almost before they were hatched. “I wish you’d stop saying that,” shot back Francisco. “You haven’t given anything.”
The next installment of the struggle over the General Plan update is scheduled to take place Tuesday evening at 6 p.m. in the Santa Barbara City Council chambers.



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So Das is leaving town and wants us to have high density housing as his parting gift. Thanks to Dale for stopping him. Only bad part about Das leaving is that he's going to Sacramento instead of oblivion.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
November 20, 2010 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for holding on go to Dale and Frank, neither of whom I voted for but I most certainly will next year for Dale!
Sounds to me as though the mighty staff, the supercilious Betty Weiss, especially, miscalculated back several years ago. They figured on having a docile council that would trot right along, but, instead, they have at least three members of the council that stand up for the neighborhoods, stand up for Santa Barbara of the future retaining the charm of the present Santa Barbara.
at_large (anonymous profile)
November 20, 2010 at 6:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Remember in November.
David_Pritchett (David Pritchett)
November 20, 2010 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't get this push to bring in high-density housing. It's not like there are great grocery stores downtown so one can easily get by without a car. It's not like there are companies out there beating on the city's door, begging to relocate here...if only we had affordable housing for all their workers. It's not like Latinos who live downtown are going to live in smaller units where there's no ability to have a car. There aren't big employers here (except for the city) demanding more workforce housing. Families who've bought homes in other areas and commute in aren't going to jettison those homes to live in tiny units with no parking. It's not realistic. School bus service is not very good in this city. Families with children often have to drive the kids to school. Downtown housing won't work for them. So who is all the affordable housing for? The rumor is that it's for the newly arrived homeless, who will be grateful that housing was built for them, and keep voting in people who support it. Francisco is right to push back - no real demand has been established that justifies all this high-density building.
downtownres (anonymous profile)
November 20, 2010 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One really needs to understand the intent of the density crowd me thinks. I've been working in Cambridge, UK for a while now and I can tell you that high density, anti auto thinking makes this lovely setting very visitor unfriendly. Literally there is no place to park except in a couple of high cost ($2-$3/hr) carparks. Hotels and food are double the price in the states and there is very much a street crime problem. Traffic in general is terrible, roundabouts, narrow streets and lane intrusive calming devices are all over here. Is this the vision of our city in the future? Do you all want to live like the Europeans, Mexicans and Chinese? Keep it up cuz that's where it's headed. I doubt Das has any experience outside of insular SB so what makes him an expert rather than just a tool of developers and minority special interests?
BTW British TV and food really does suck but BBC talk radio is brilliant, mates!
sa1 (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 3:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There's endless cheap rental housing in Oxnard and Santa Maria.
What are these boneheads thinking? Destroying downtown SB so a couple lottery winning "low income workers" can live cheaply without any incentive to ever move up in life is idiotic.
Take away the motivation to succeed and people will keep on failing. Most folks in America commute to work. What's the big deal? What are these dudes smoking?
Lars (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Williams retorted, “What you seem to have the understanding gap on is that there is a real already. Or problem is that we’re expelling our young people to Oxnard, and Lompoc, and Santa Maria.”
Is this guy joking? Go on Craigslist. There are lots of rooms available in SB proper that McDonalds' workers can afford.
All over Europe young people live at home while saving up to buy a place. Why can't they do the same thing here?
The government should fix roads, fight fires, keep the streets safe, fund schools, and shut up.
Lars (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We must preserve Haley and Cota. Just as we must preserve the character of what is left of Chapala's used car lots. Charming Santa Barbara.
If I understand the Francisco, Hotchkiss, Self "preservationist" trio and their constituents then this city will remain just another ordinary car oriented development. Francisco, Hotchkiss and Self, due to their unimaginative and paranoid or phobic personalities have developed insurmountable obstacles that precludes them from being able think and negotiate in good faith all the while thinking that they are.
But I would like for the anti-growth development trio of Francisco, Self and Hotchkiss to explain their anti-development model and how it will affect the city. I am honestly hoping to see it.
As the world develops around us how do you rationalize an ever expanding freeway (or development) and "preserve" the "character" of the city. How do you ignore that some of our residential streets already have far too much high speed commercial traffic. This paranoid trio do not have a plan to fix anything but only to freeze Santa Barbara in time. I presume their "preservation" is really more degradation. Ignoring housing and transportation issues to preserve the exclusive lifestyles of Francisco, Hotchkiss and Self and their constituents are selfish and elitists traits that have no place on what should be an inclusive council.
I cannot excuse Francisco for his "no vagrants" comments. I can't tell if this is more of his paranoia or his political opportunism at other's expense. But I do have neighbors who are of multi-generation Santa Barbara family, and sometimes they need to panhandle to make ends meet. Work is very difficult to come by, especially for certain people.
BTW does anyone know how Francisco makes a living, supporting a home in the Upper Eastside neighborhood? I'm just trying to see if I can somehow consider Francisco a vagrant. I'd like to oust Francisco back to Orange County where I presume a trust fund originated for him.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said Don McDermott.
mtndriver (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If private developers see profit in Haley Street rental housing, they'll build it.
Oxnard is full of cheap housing. Move to Oxnard.
Lars (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The high density politicos need to keep the money machine churning to keep paying the over inflated pensions and their over budgeted dept's. over time, it's an endless cycle of development, wrapped up in a new package. At this point, each case should be scrutinized to the highest degree possible. Also, there's nothing affordable about any of this. If Das thinks a $750,000 unit is affordable, even w/ dual incomes, he's dreaming, and maybe belongs in Sacramento.
Watching, and paying attention to all of the General Plan being synchronized by the City Planners is very interesting. This is the time to give it all of the time it deserves in debate, questions answered, and consideration from all sides, not force fed for a vote to sway the status quo majority.
The transparency that we all afford in these times is of great value. It beg's to wonder who is enriched by all of this new high density (not affordable, City Partnered) development . Wondering also, what part of this high density equation is currently working on Chapala St.?
easternpacific (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I just can't understand your illogical anti automobile rants Don. How do you imagine that people will get around without them? Do you really think it is rational to believe that society can function without them?
Are you actually disabled or destitute and resent anyone who can operate a vehicle? What sort of "growth" are you looking for that doesn't require transportation?
"sometimes they need to panhandle to make ends meet." Why is that Don? Why do they have to panhandle? Why can't they move to the mid west where rent is dirt cheap and live off gov't welfare like all the other people that have failed to provide for themselves?
Why should we that have earned our way here have to give up the uncrowded clean safe enviroment that used to be the south coast just because others want to be here so bad they'de destroy our lifestyle forcing it to be cut ever so slimmer? Is there no limit to growth in your mind? Have you ever been to a ghetto? Because that is what you're descibing Don. You want growth till the whole city is a ghetto. You don't like the car lots on Chapala so what? People should walk to Ventura to buy a car?
sa1 (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
the biggest casualty in this whole, painful, years-long episode is the hijacking of careful growth principles by the right-wing- though in fairness- we- the progressive left of santa barbara- handed those environmental principles over on a silver platter- either by our silence or our deference to the loudest most intimidating voices on the left who were co-opted (sorry for the pun) by developers and their agents who knew that they would never win the battle for development of santa barbara by hitching their wagons to the right. so they found a way to get the left to hitch their wagons for them. and, here we are. a waste of years, money and good will.
sbsleuth99 (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Das means well, but he is totally wrong on this issue on many levels. He's operating from theory rather than reality.
Average size zoning is a destructive model for planning because it creates an environment where too many people are put into too small of a space. High-density housing creates environmental dead zones with no wildlife, no yards, no space for children to develop their creativity and their relationship to nature. Parents must drive their children in a car to a public park or wilderness. But even then, nature is separated from home, as are you and your kids.
Do you want Santa Barbara to be another dense City that wipes out the natural world within it, like Los Angeles and San Francisco with zero open space except for a few over-crowded parks?
Planning based on a natural balance of human population, animal population, open space, and agriculture is the only sustainable way to protect healthy human development while protecting the character and soul of a place.
So-called "smart-growthers" don't believe in sustainability unless you have constant development. They don't acknowledge that a healthy system can sustain itself without growth in population and construction of high-density development. It's a flawed philosophy with tons of bogus, self-serving research.
"Smart-growthers" don't believe in letting growth and jobs go to places that have lower housing costs and an abundance of open space. They want to force more growth to areas that are already boxed in and over-developed.
"Smart-growthers" don't believe that if you add more population and cars to a square acre that traffic and pollution will get worse. They think people will just walk to where they need to go. This is false. Very few people abandon their cars. Traffic and pollution always get worse, creating a lower quality of life.
"Smart-growthers" believe high-density development reduces commuters and global-warming. This is false. Most people who want to work in Santa Barbara would rather own a home with a yard in Ventura and commute. Also people from Los Angeles buy low cost high-density housing in Ventura and apply for jobs in Santa Barbara. Because Ventura has let their City go, and has developed lots of high-density housing, people from Los Angeles actually move to Ventura, buy a cheap high-density apartment, and commute to Los Angeles where their good paying job is.
"Smart-growthers" remarkably believe that high-density development doesn't change the character of a town. What can I say. The king has no clothes on.
"Smart-growthers" believe high-density development doesn't effect the crime rate. When you look at where crime and gang activity happens, it almost always happens in ares with lots of high density housing.
Georgy (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
>All over Europe young people live at home while saving up to >
>buy a place. Why can't they do the same thing here?
Yup, they live at hotel "Mom", get married and move into hotel "Wife".
locke (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just have to wonder if the real reason that Das and the other liberals want is higher density so there is more tax revenue for them to spend. Das always seems to be looking for more ways to grow government.
I also wonder about all the affordable for rent or for sale housing the city built with Redevelopment Dollars. Redevelopment dollars are basically free to the city who then builds affordable housing and sells or collects rent. Where does that money go?
Anyone know?
loneranger (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"High-density housing creates environmental dead zones with no wildlife, no yards, no space for children to develop their creativity and their relationship to nature. Parents must drive their children in a car to a public park or wilderness. But even then, nature is separated from home, as are you and your kids." -Georgy-
Well said. You make many other good points as well Georgy. The only thing I would add is that when the issue of gang violence is raised, those discussing it fail to realize or are afraid to point out the detrimental effects of overcrowding and how it makes people antisocial.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The anti-automobile mindset originates in the city planning department, which has found yes-men (and women) on the council. We can thank them for roadway intrusions, roundabouts, off-sync traffic lights, and other street dangers and annoyances. When that house gets cleaned out, perhaps Santa Barbara can return to a saner and more friendly environment.
alphadog (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 4:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sa1; So you don't like it where ever you go. Not Cambridge U.K., China, Mexico, Europe. Or is it the people. Zenophobic are you. Just what is it with you not wanting anything other than the automobile for transportation. When you go abroad do you charter a private plane because a public airline carrier might just have your maid sitting next to you. God forbid a Mexican, European, Negro or White Trash be sitting nearby.
I just think that we've done enough of this suburban sprawl and car model. There are some really great alternative development models you know and Santa Barbara is perfect for higher density development. And you are fit in the strangely conflicted and paranoid category. You assert that we have this safe environment here while blasting it at the same time, while we have this low density sprawling auto dependent model. And then you blame the alternative that isn't even here yet; for the problems you conjure in your imagination.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 9:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The pro-automobile and sprawl development mindset types don't get the irony; the model you love so much is exactly what they have in sprawling L.A.
San Francisco as a comparison? In case you haven't been paying attention no one has suggested building on our abundant open space. It is clear that as with council members Francisco, Hotchkiss, and Self far too many are just paranoid or just don't know what they're talking about.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ouch, Don, dating yourself there, aren't you? Negro is considered pejorative, and has been out of common accepted parlance since the 60's. The only exception is older blacks who still self-identify with the term, and its use by white racists. Black or African-American is the accepted term, especially for those who think themselves progressive...and you seem to be staking out yourself as one.
downtownres (anonymous profile)
November 21, 2010 at 10:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Smart' growth is just growth with a pretty ribbon. SB is already overgrown so, to the peril of my soul, I'm with Dale and most of the others here. The time for SB to reach population stasis is right now.
SezMe (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 1:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Even "black" is considered pejorative. Remember when the term "black is beautiful" was popular?
Here are two songs that sum up this thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2iGy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaEJmS...
Too many people folks. The pro-birth control people made sense back in the 60's, but now that the increase in population is coming from immigration and the higher birth rates associated with it the political left has ostensibly abandoned that issue because it doesn't want to be considered racist. (All the while they cozy up to Planned Parenthood)
The irony is right in front of all of us, and once again, there are too many people. Can't fit ten pounds of material into a five-pound bag.
How many of these white "progressives" are having large families? I rest my case.
Look at the countries with the high standards of living vs. those with low standards and compare birth rates. I think you'll see a correlation.
By the way, whatever my differences are with Don McDermott, I've never seen any evidence that he is a racist.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 3:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
billclausen; Thanks for sticking up for me considering I have in the past suggested that you perhaps are a racist. I really only suggested you were racist as a possibility because many that I have known to move to what I now call the "Great White North" eventually reveal their bigotry.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 6:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
downtownres; Yes I used "Negro" as a pejorative. But if you read my comments correctly you would understand that I am pointing out that it this anonymous and snooty 'sa1's' possible racism that I am considering.
And downtownres how old are you for using a pseudonym? 2 or 3.) Pseudonyms are for whistleblowers like Deep Throat rather than for citizens debating in a Democratic republic.
BTW all the problems you may be experiencing downtown has nothing to do with high-density housing. Identifying just one Downtown problem; outdated dumb-growth policies that allow a suburban transient population of car driving bar-hoppers from I.V., San Roque, Mesa, Riviera and Samarkand hoods. Another big factor, I'll use a dated Carville quote, "it's the economy stupid."
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 6:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well if the ratio of pro to anti smart growth is represented in these comments I'd say Das and company are not representing the majority. Or are smart growthers just quiet types?
JHL (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
“easy parking, no vagrants, and no graffiti.” - and no middle class or young families. It clear the conservative trio could care less about anybody but their older, well off constituents who elected them. The rest of us need to get active and get out and vote like we did to defeat Measure B.
The 2011 election starts now Santa Barbara - Defeat Francisco and Self!
sbbrian (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Good for Das for standing up to the anti-smart growth clique. And thanks to Don McDermott for doing the same. I expect better of David Prichett; given his age cohort and middling income, I'd think he'd have more sympathy for those who work in SB but are constrained to commute to where the "cheap housing" is - as some of the numb nuts in this string refer to Oxnard and Santa Maria. Look around, guys - there are many examples of density in SB higher than that being discussed, and it's been there for 40-50 years without causing gangs or anything else your fearful minds worry about. Unfortunately, the people most affected by the new General Plan apparently have to work for a living and aren't involved in this discussion - but they need to let Francisco and Hotchkiss hear from them since these guys claim they've not heard from anyone in support of downtown housing.
God, I get so sick of the hubris embedded in statements like "let them live in Oxnard"! It's so Maria Atoinette-like: "Let them eat cake!" At least the French had a guillotine...
Pagurus (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's the working people and middle class who are against high-density housing. They are trying to hold on to one of the few things they still have, a nice city to live in. Rich developers don't care, they're living in gated communities, they love profiting off high-density housing.
"the idea of high-density housing. Surprisingly, the group that gave the lowest support was low-income families (household income of $35,000 or less)."
http://www.thedailysound.com/results/...
Georgy (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Just look around at all the older apartment buildings gone condo. The streets of these neighborhoods are lined with parked cars. Density is happening on it's own in every home, real estate investors buying residential property for rental investment, empty nesters renting out rooms, long time residents building out garages and adding mother in law units. All with extra cars spilling out onto the streets, 4 to eight cars for every home. This problem is growing at a rapid pace in every neighborhood. The reality of life is if your can't afford to buy a home, you choose somewhere you can, if not you rent, if you can't afford the rent, you move somewhere you can. This entitlement to ownership is BS. Stop all high density projects period. We don't need more units we need less people. Downtown is turning into a corporate store mall with bars. Build units for our ever growing $10 an hour job market? For such Industries like Bevo, REI, H & M and the rest of the predatory CHAINS pushing out our local MIDDLE CLASS business owners. A City tax scam pure and simple.
lordleadbetter (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The gov't doesn't control growth, it controls development. The general plan is about accommodating population growth, planning for the type and location of appropriate development to make sure future populations have decent places to live and work. Until population growth suddenly stops or *gasp reverses, we are obligated to plan stuff for people, less we want quality of life to go down: highways clogged with out of town commuters, crowded bedrooms, and fewer local residents participating (and paying sales tax) in our community. I personally am sick of all my middle class friends moving away because "we can't settle down here". This mentality destroys our human capital and our REAL community.
Also, all the homeowners here know how good it feels to own a place of your own, how it empowers you to work on it and care for it. This happens whether you own a 900 sq ft condo near your office downtown, or a 20,000 sq ft mansion on the upper east. Home ownership is so valuable for the morale of this country. Here, it's a point of pride to say you own property in Santa Barbara, even just a little bit.
Housing development has always been determined by gov't bodies. You're probably living in a tract home, right? Those subdivisions were the result of the affordable housing policy of the day, allowing developers to build cheap "high density" subdivisions to give the middle class a piece of the American Pie. Population growth happens, what type of development do we want to accommodate it?
ewoldson (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Middle class moving away ? The City provides a good middle class income with oodles of benefits, yet how many city employees live within the city limits ? How many county employees live in the county? I know of plenty of local people who could fill those jobs, our own city is spending our tax dollars to hire people who live outside our city and spend their income somewhere else. City and county jobs should be for our tax paying residents, not people from Ventura, Santa Maria or Lompoc. Same goes for USCB, need more density? What about the largest employer with the most empty space? The City, County and UCSB are where the jobs are and the traffic problems originate. You don't have to own a home to live and work here. Hire local, keep SB tax dollars in SB, shop at independent businesses and we might have a fighting chance.
lordleadbetter (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You oughta try living in orcutt. We bought a little old house on an acre in a rural area of orcutt 12 years ago. you should see it now. A developer bought the acre behind our backyard and crammed six huge two story 3500 sq. ft. monstrosities looking down into our formerly private backyard. I think this is what Jonie Gray calls "smart growth". The road to our house used to be a dead end gravel road, now it is a thru feeder road to the freeway.If you build it they will come.
JeffC (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@ewoldson
:: ..."The general plan is about accommodating population growth, planning for the type and location of appropriate development to make sure future populations have decent places to live and work..."
Well said (your entire post).
binky (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey, McDermott (Das in disguise?), get a column.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"The general plan is about accommodating population growth, planning for the type and location of appropriate development to make sure future populations have decent places to live and work."
--ewoldson
Nonsense. Your approach to planning is basically grab your ankles because here it comes. Sorry, but growth CAN be controlled and good planning is how it is done.
SezMe (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don and Bill,
Love it when white people rush to defend the use of a racial pejorative in their zeal to call out other people's (non-existent) prejudice. Clearly you don't have black friends or you'd know black is not pejorative, if you're an insider in the black community. SA1 didn't say anything racial at all. You did. "God forbid a Mexican, European, Negro or White Trash be sitting nearby." The racist here is you.
downtownres (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will (of course) not let the above comment stand without addressing it.
I wasn't saying that you were a bigot, and I will admit fault on my part for not clarifying that using "black" not the issue but I *have* noticed politicians shy away from "black" to favor the ridiculous term "African American" while they still refer to those of European American descent as "white". Inconsistency is something I will attack. Also, when will "African-American" become obsolete?
As for Don's "God forbid..." comment, you should either read the context of is comment, or if you are not capable of recognizing sarcasm, keep your words to yourself.
As for the "Great White North" comment by Don: I moved there because I got sick and tired of the L.A. scene taking over in Santa Barbara. I got tired of people up my bumper day and night and in a hurry, three-hour waits in the emergency room, traffic and the feeling of being crowded in. Wanting nature and space around you does not make one a racist. As for the politics up here, they are just as foolish as they are in Santa Barbara and I have equal contempt for both political parties.
Hope that sets the record straight and jump starts the brains of some of the bloggers who type before getting their facts straight.
Now onto your comment: "Clearly you don't have black friends or you'd know black is not pejorative" how do you know this? Clearly you don't have black friends or you'd know black is not pejorative
billclausen (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Smart growthers aren't quiet, just rational. Some of the statements made here by the anti-densification crowd simply defy science. What creates more cars, for example? Density or sprawl? The answer is pretty obvious. Even in a relatively low density urban environment like SB people are already abandoning their cars if they live anywhere near downtown, and as densities rise and public transportation improves this will only get better.
I would love to see lower State street shut down every night at 6pm. Cars would be replaced with gratified people out and about in a pleasant reduced noise environment. Such experiments are cropping up all over the world and have yet to produce a negative result.
If people want to live in low density situations that's fine, but they should be required to pay for that choice and not impose their irrational arguments on the majority. Cities should be dense, by definition, as the economies of scale are what make cities viable in the first place.
tegrat (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@sez, I actually sez, "The gov't doesn't control growth, it controls development" Population growth is happening and we can't make a law against that. But, there is a difference between uncontrollable growth and well-planned development. I'm a fan of the latter.
I think we're saying the same thing essentially. Good planning for future populations is really important to determine what, how, and where things get built. We get to choose. Given population growth, do we fill in the already built places? Do we sprawl out into open spaces? Or do we decide to prohibit development of any new places to live/work and deal with the social, economic, and environmental ramifications of not doing anything?
In SB, the city could choose any of these scenarios for the new General Plan. I personally would prefer the infill approach to future development. Others prefer sprawl. Others are okay with saying no more people here in SB, make them live in Oxnard or Santa Maria or something. That's cool, but the day is so much better when you work where you live, not just for the individual, but for the community as well.
Santa Barbara should never consider development that is incompatible or ugly (read: Oxnard towers...yikes), but it seems clear to me that redevelopment of already developed properties within appropriate locations in the city is a great tool for this little beach town to accommodate State-mandated housing development without losing our regional open spaces or farmlands. It's just one opinion, and...well... opinions are like...
ewoldson (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"What creates more cars, for example? Density or sprawl? "
A: More people.
"I would love to see lower State street shut down every night at 6pm."
Would that include the bars? Some residents and people that work there certainly wouldn't mind that. Bear in mind that not everyone is able bodied enought to walk/ride to the various destinations there so if one is to block off cars from that area (I fail to see how this will reduce the overall use of cars) they need to hammer out the devilish details so we don't get too Logans-Run'ish.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmm, how did the last sentence of my 3:44 post end up being a repeat of what I already wrote? Must be gremlims.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I did a survey this weekend of a friends small apartment building downtown near cottage hospital. It seemed a perfect example of the "smart growth" everyone is talking about. 6 units of 2 bedrooms 2 bath approx 950 sq feet each.
Here is what I found:
5 units each has 2 adults, 1 unit has 2 adults with 1 small kid. Ten adults work and 2 are retired. There are 11 cars, every unit has 2 cars except for the retired couple has only 1 car. Of the 10 working people, 1 person walks to cottage, 1 person works out of the home. 8 people drive to work daily from Goleta to Carpinteria.
From this it does not appear that this downtown "smart growth" thing is working.
Has the city done a large scale survey to see what the statistics are for people living downtown? Looks to me like we would be creating a traffic and parking nightmare with higher density.
loneranger (anonymous profile)
November 22, 2010 at 9:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
billclausen: Yeah I have gremlinstoo gremlinstoo.
The "L.A. scene taking over Santa Barbara" you mention could be the ever sprawling communities just to the north and south that depend on the middle (Santa Barbara) for employment and entertainment.
loneranger points out the problem. People driving in, people driving out. People here have the same mindset as L.A. with driving habits and that is the problem. Francisco is Orange County, Michael Self is West Covina and Hotchkiss is L.Aish. That's all they know. Sprawl and cars and L.A.
And then we complain about this L.A. style local traffic. I like irony of the truck parked on Castillo with the bumper sticker that reads "Keep L.A. 100 Mile Away." Or the irony of a medical technician who rides his motorized stinking skateboard scooter thing to work at Sansum. We need new policies for our economy and environment.
City transportation policies and this proposed higher density policy change for this community is the best direction. But I'd still like for the Francisco, Hotchkiss and Self trio to detail their no-growth policies so we can all see what that looks like. Including the economic impact report. Maybe we'll all be happy with that.
The current development model for most places is to build out, sprawl. Then everyone claims specialness or victim for moving out and proceed to use our original neighborhoods for their enjoyment and for high-speed traffic for cars, hotrods, monster trucks and ninja motorcycles. That has been the trend for several decades. And that is the problem. So sorry to anyone that is disappointed that I point that out.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 23, 2010 at 6:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@ DM too much koolaid
easternpacific (anonymous profile)
November 23, 2010 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Don, I feel like I am missing something. Is there really a City transportation Policy that will eliminate the need for cars?
I lived in NYC without a car and would not have wanted a car for the following reasons. I rented and lived near where I worked. When I changed jobs I changed apartments to be close to my new job. NY'ers do not seem hung up about home ownership like we are here.
There was plenty of buses, subways, taxis and trains. Very easy and inexpensive to get from point A to B both inside and outside the city.
Groceries, doctors, health clubs, shopping, entertainment, jobs, schools were all in the neighborhood and very walkable.
SB is completely different. Maybe we need a Napoleon to come to town, burn it down and rebuild a planned community.
Building housing density alone does not solve the problem.
Do you really think the new high density Cottage housing going in will have less cars and traffic than if standard density units were built?
While some employees of cottage will walk or bus to work what about the non-Cottage spouse/partner? Where will they work? Who will drive the kids to pre-school. babysitters, sport events, piano lessons? Where is the grocery store, health club. It is a long walk to the mall.
An average home has 9 car trips a day either people coming to the home or the residence going out. Even if the residence that works at Cottage walks or takes the bus that will leave 7 trips a day. How will these be eliminated?
I do not think the city has done the hard work to eliminate these extra trips. Show me a high density middle class complex that has moved the average trips down significantly.
I know I am cynical but I just keeping wonder if Das is trying to push this high density thing because it brings in more tax income to the city ...
loneranger (anonymous profile)
November 23, 2010 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Public transportation not only has environmental and economic benefits, it also fosters a sense of community and interaction amongst a populace.
So many of the above comments are beyond disgust. Ignorance can be overlooked, greed and bigotry can not. Its funny how derisively so commentators speak of Ventura, which is surpassing SB in all the Arts. SB must grow up instead of out to save the very view some well-meaning advocates wish to protect.
EZK (anonymous profile)
November 23, 2010 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
EZK; Yeah some of these posters are masters of distractions so they don't have to think about what they're doing to their own communities. L.A., Lompoc, Ventura, Oxnard all have their problems but also have good things going on. To me the common denominator of bad planning is the overuse of the car.
loneranger; I think there is a statistic that 35% of the people in our area can't, won't or don't drive. The policies the city has adopted is to put all modes of transportation on an equal footing. No one is planning to drag people out of their cars, kicking and scream. It is my opinion that the "environmental" south coast may have done some very ordinary and damaging suburban land-use and transportation planning in the past. The city is working at implementing well thought out policies to increase housing in selected areas, add transit, biking , walking but then there is this concerted paranoid effort to stop it.
This General Plan Update is called "Plan Santa Barbara" and implementation takes a while. I think that may be why some people become unglued when they see something they're unaccustomed to.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 24, 2010 at 6:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lots of good things about public transport, but not that "it also fosters a sense of community and interaction amongst a populace." Have you ridden the buses? Those I've been on from the eastside to downtown and reversing are like buses and subways in Manhattan and elsewhere: workers on the way to and from work, people looking inward and away from their neighbors, keeping a moment of quiet. Cramming people together does not create positive community, any more than a jail creates community!
Thankfully, Francisco, a UCSB graduate who's lived here for years and years and did very well at Cisco, Hotchkiss who also has lived here for many years, and Self, who's lived her for about 30 years, if not more, all held the line last night so that there can be a General Plan reflective of the wishes of the community as a whole, not the special interests represented by city staff, Mickey Flacks, developers Campanella and Peikert, flaunting the window dressing of CPA management.
citti (anonymous profile)
November 24, 2010 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Most people are all for commuter rail, more buses, biking, walking, and other alternative forms of transportation. These are all great.
But the issue is whether we should cram more people into an already crowded city just because we can with all these alternative transportation modes.
The answer is NO. We should not turn Santa Barbara into a New York or San Francisco style City just because we can. We're better than that. We are special and beautiful and we shouldn't be ashamed of it.
The three moderates on the Council are reflecting that sentiment and they shouldn't be villainized by the Independent or other people for not letting vested interests build high-density housing to the detriment of the people who already live here.
High-density developments have numerous negative impacts. And people who don't believe it are in denial.
Georgy (anonymous profile)
November 24, 2010 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Learn from the past.
Make a low density model city for others to follow and show some foresight.
Developers want money. High Density money. Takes no brains to agree with that.
Stop bringing LA to SB.
khiggler (anonymous profile)
November 24, 2010 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
citti; Francisco is more of a dictator indicated by his inability to negotiate. Francisco's Plan Santa Barbara platform as reported in the article is “easy parking, no vagrants, and no graffiti.”<<< That's It!!!! You obviously think highly of Francisco but really; Francisco is not qualified to represent the vast array of people in this community.
Francisco cleverly lumps together a class of people that he calls "vagrants." That is inexcusable. We have had "vagrants" singled out and murdered in this city you know!
You know Francisco himself could be considered a vagrant. Francisco is a transplant from Orange County and I have not heard him say how it is he makes a living. Is Francisco self hating for being a retired fireman at age 56? Is he on SSI disability? Does mommy and daddy pay his rent. Is he set up in a trust fund. Did he win the lottery. Is Sugar supporting him. I h8te to be so personal but really this name calling busy body obstructionist needs a bit more scrutiny.
Francisco is a somewhat later life UCSB grad and worked just several years at Cisco. What is it that supports Francisco so he can busily run around stirring up the fear and h8te while holding the city's Plan Santa Barbara process hostage.
As for the other two in this trio of autocratic terror I think that Hotchkiss is a real estate profiteer. Michael Self you'll find was at least a one time real estate speculator in Colorado. Really. Hypocritical or what. By both their standards they apparently don't mind growth elsewhere when they can make some money off of it.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
November 24, 2010 at 11:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)