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Police Arrest Fourth in Eastside Attack

Victim, George Ied, Dies


Monday, October 18, 2010
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Following last Tuesday’s brutal beating of a 37-year-old man walking home from work, police have taken a fourth suspect into custody for the Punta Gorda Street attack.

Michael Cardenas, 24, has been charged with murder and committing a crime to benefit a criminal street gang. Cardenas, like other suspects in the case, is known to be a gang member.

Michael Cardenas
Click to enlarge photo

SBPD

Michael Cardenas

The three other suspects, Steven Santana and brothers Miguel and Ismael Parra, made their first court appearance Thursday afternoon, which will be continued tomorrow. On Monday, prosecutors amended the charges and the three are now accused of murder.

On Saturday, police received a tip that Cardenas was hiding out at a residence on the 1400 block of Lou Dillon Road. As officers responded to the area, Cardenas spotted them and fled into the hillside. An hour into the search, Cardenas surrendered.

George Ied, a native of Syria, was on his way home from work at Mi Fiesta Liquors on Milpas Street before he was beaten unconscious only a block away from his home. Ied was put on life support until he was pronounced dead at 3:30 a.m. Saturday by the Cottage Hospital Intensive Care Unit. His parents live in Syria, and other family members live in Ventura County.

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I would like to learn more about the man who lost his life.

Moonrunner (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Beaten to death walking home from WORK!!
Are we pissed enough yet?
One more liberal excuse machine spitting out why these poor young men went astray and I'll explode.
SB newspress has another news article today about ANOTHER Hispanic Gang attack on one of their fellow "Homies" Did not see it in Independent yet.
Yeah, all these white business guys running around stabbing, beating, shooting and robbing people.
Just waiting for the typical comments:

SanityNow (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just realized the Article just below this extremely gut wrenching story Calls for ZERO TOLERANCE ON CELL PHONE USAGE IN CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't want to offend the Gangs and the Hispanic "Community" or the ACLU But those damn Cell phone users? Enough is enough!

SanityNow (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 2:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr Sanity
You clearly have better sources than the rest of us. Which liberals have been making excuses for the people charged with this murder?

pk (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it is time that Santa Barbara fully and openly explored the gang injunction option. I do not believe that Cam Sanchez, no matter how well-intended he may be, can effect any changes to the growing gang problem without the leverage of a gang injunction. With gang activity growing out of control, as Sanchez himself notes, it is time to take action and stop with the posturing. With Mayor Schneider suggesting one clutch a cell phone for protection, and avoid places that seem dangerous, is advocating surrender to this lawless bunch. Support for a gang injunction should be a make-or-break political position for the next election cycle. And if the suggestion is made that an injunction is race or ethnicity related -- please wake up and get a life. This is a matter of safety. I, for one, will only vote for candidates that do something about our safety and a gang injunction might prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again. Time to do something concrete, something to deter the swarming gang members you see on both the East and West sides.

RoboRider (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pk. Just look at the comments from just yest. before this guy died. It's the over crowding, the working parents, the cops, marijuana laws etc. etc. Liberals seem to always say they are not condoning the criminals BUT................then the social reasons why.
These guys wrote letters to the Judge with their list of excuses etc. when they were arrested and sentance for their last crimes. Only spent a couple yrs. Now look at the results.

SanityNow (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PK: "Mr Sanity
You clearly have better sources than the rest of us. Which liberals have been making excuses for the people charged with this murder?"

PK, here. let me help on that: Sanchez, Blum, House, PUEBLO, ACLU, et al.
They actually didn't make excuses for these particular individuals, but they CONTINUALLY make excuses for the actions of these & other individuals like them.
Sure, it all seems like a huge injustice to Latinos, but as a Latino I am sickened by all the excuse making.
Liberals are worse than fascists (nazis, skinheads) because @ least w/ a fascist you know you're going to get an earful of how they really feel & that feeling is that anything NOT like them is inferior.
W/ libs what you'll get is an earful of woe & pity that amounts to saying the following: "Because you're "minorities" you will NEVER succeed in life because you're a minority & therefore not good enough to succeed." I guess they missed the 2008 presidential election.
Eventually, 1 of these supposed "victims" will make their way into a liberal's ivory tower & then we'll ALL hear about it!
In other words, it's just a demographic/statistic, until it happens to you ("you" meant in a general sense, not directed @ you specifically) :) henry

hank (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Perhaps Mayor Schneider can stand and city hall and talk about how we need more after-school programs, then Cam Sanchez can cry "Boy's please stop fighting". I'm encouraged by some of the other posts. Maybe, just maybe, George Ied's tragic death will be the turning point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CManSB (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks hank, appreciate the help. You hit all the nails on the head. This not about being of hispanic/latino decent at all.
The good hard working latinos should be up in arms over this stuff. And most are. That is why so many law enforement officers are of hispanic heritage. They want to take back their neighborhoods and their GOOD names.

SanityNow (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

First of all, ditto to hank's post.

Let's get right back to the root of this problem: a man is dead and trends indicate many more will die in like manner. This is what happens when the Ponzi sceme of using cheap immigrant labor to save a few bucks trumps paying decent wages and upholding labor laws, and I don't hear Sanchez, Blum, Schneider, PUEBLO, the A.C.L.U. or any of the rest of the usual suspects speaking out about this contradiction of talking about how much they care about the working poor while fiddling as labor laws are effectively negated. If any of these that I've cited have said anything about this, I haven't heard it.

As for the right-wingers, at least we know they couldn't care less about about the disastrous effects cheap labor is having as they count their $$$ but somehow the hypocrisy of the left wing is even more unbearable.

Anyone who doesn't see this is living in a fantasy world.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bill, pretty much agree with all you say. The hiring of illegals is the dirty little secret that, of course, is no secret at all.
Don't know or think it is a right wing or left wing thing but an economic thing. These folks are being used for their "cheap labor" and they come here to take it. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy situation. Because those jobs are now SO entrenched with illegal immigrants it has created a new "market value" for those jobs. Effectivley locking out any "regular" employee from taking/getting those jobs. Manual labor jobs seek their own level of wages. Going to be tough to break the habit. They are used to getting the jobs and we are used to the low prices. Is there an answer??

SanityNow (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So injuctions are not the answer? I don't believe in them because they deal with people who work in the shadows anyways. There are enough laws that can be used and enough programs that can be offered. Everybody is entitled to at least one mistake in their lifetime (criminal related) but after that the gloves should come off.First time, shame on you. Second time, shame on US.

AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why not make the gang members pick the crops and do menial labor, instead of bringing in a new batch of illegal immigrants whose children will form new gangs?

revisionist (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Radical Chic"

If you want to understand the House/Blum/Schneider mentality that coddles the local gangsters, read this _very_ politically incorrect piece by Tom Wolfe from the 1970 New York Magazine. Short version -- the gangs are the Progressive Left's allies in the class struggle.

Excerpt about Leonard Bernstein's love affair with the Black Panthers

"and now, in the season of Radical Chic, the Black Panthers. That huge Panther there, the one Felicia is smiling her tango smile at, is Robert Bay, who just 41 hours ago was arrested in an altercation with the police, supposedly over a .38-caliber revolver that someone had, in a parked car in Queens at Northern Boulevard and 104th Street or some such unbelievable place, and taken to jail on a most unusual charge called “criminal facilitation.” And now he is out on bail and walking into Leonard and Felicia Bernstein’s 13-room penthouse duplex on Park Avenue. Harassment & Hassles, Guns & Pigs, Jail & Bail—they’re real, these Black Panthers. The very idea of them, these real revolutionaries, who actually put their lives on the line, runs through Lenny’s duplex like a rogue hormone."

http://nymag.com/news/features/46170/

revisionist (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 4:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that it is sad and scary that these guys attacked someone that has nothing to do with gangs. I am thrilled that the 4 were caught and hoping that they rot in prison, or can get the death penalty for them. It scares me that they are attacking a non gang member, I have a 21 year old non gang member son and always worry about him being assualted when out at night. That is just how dangerous these POS's are making our city. It makes me want to leave the town I was born and raised in, it breaks my heart that this man died for no reason :(

santabarbarasand (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"House/Blum/Schneider mentality" - do you have sources for descriptions of their "mentality", or are you just painting with a broad brush from your imagination.

And on the subject of left versus right, the Obama administration has cracked down more on people who hire undocumented people than the Bush administration did.

"According to government records, 1,897 workplace enforcement cases were initiated from April 30 to Nov. 19 of 2009, compared with 605 cases during the same period a year earlier under the Bush Administration."

Possibly Meg Whitman could read up on that? (Btw, what kind of mentality does she have?)

tabatha (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not here to battle. I will offer what I know and what I think and hopefully we can all at one point start to agree on a solution.

I know the Parra brothers well. (OK, I knew the "other" Parra brothers well.) I was their teacher when they were 12. They were both good students coming from a home with the hardest working mother I ever met. They had ready smiles and were very protective of their younger sister, whom I also taught. Neither Ismael nor Miguel were EVER in any trouble while in elementary school. Homework was done, class participation was good and grades were decent to good.
Now, 10 years on and... they are indeed monsters. I now a few more details than the police are letting out as I still teach in the community. What happened?
The death of Mr. Ied is failure on all our parts. As is the death of Angel Linares (also caused by one of my students; one of my exemplary students!) How do nice, promising young men, mostly hispanic, from good families end up becoming murders and all around horrible people? Some how, some way, we as a community are failing them. Yes, it is OUR fault (remember, it takes a village...), albeit not entirely. We can, and we have to, blame the families for losing control of their boys. We also have to accept some for not paying closer attention to our youth and what they are lacking or needing. Starting in 7th grade, we start to lose many, many children to the ills of our society. It starts with smoking pot, mainly out of boredom, and progresses from there. In 25 years of teaching on the eastside, I have talked to myriad students on this topic. They are bored and the old platitudes of "Go for a hike" or "We have the beach so close" or "go to the movies" is deafening and condescending. these are people who live near or below the poverty line. These are families without the resources. These are families who clean up after us, without many thanks. Their children see this and then the see the affluent who inhabit the Junior and Senior Highs. This breeds resentment and anger. Those not into sports, indeed a crossover activity bringing the haves and have-nots together, need to find a release. Pot is readily available and it is the hook that the gang-bangers use to recruit the new "workers." (Ricky J. was a worker and was never jumped in.) They, in turn, find what they are missing: power in a power-less existence. Belonging to a group that that can intimidate allows them to feel a sense on being on par with those with money because money equals power.

cartman (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We can help the situation with a gang injunction (which I believe will just make the problem go underground.) People NEED a sense of belonging. If we take that away from them, we further alienate an already marginalized group. We need to empower them, to allow them to create authentic self-worth (these are mostly children of illiterate immigrants, many of whom have never gone past the 3rd grade and who generally do not do well in the traditional school setting with sports to keep them in line.) We can do this, and we have the responsibility to do this. It will, however, take a fair amount of money thrown at it at the outset. I do believe, and I talk to these people on a daily basis, both face-to-face and through social media. I am doing my part and I would like to see a plethora of new people coming together for a comprehensive plan. Most of these boys are save-able. We need to talk them early and find out from the what it is they want. (Remember back in the day when Kid's World was coming together and the developer visited many school classrooms, including mine, to figure out the kids wanted?) Let's try that now. We know what doesn't work; we've been doing it for years and, as many of you posted, it has been ineffective. Please, let's not try more of the same. Time to change the guide book. I have been taking new courses and thinking back to my UCSB days where I took juvenile justice courses. I have been talking to these boys every day, even those I did not teach because I believe are kids are save-able.
Let's start to work together (them and us... I know, scary thought) to see what can be done proactively. Reacting is not working nor is increased police presence. (If you knew how much these "boys" felt that they were being harassed constantly by the police, you would understand their striving to avoid them.) These are the youth of OUR community, ergo OUR responsibility, and somehow, we are dropping the ball when they need it the most: adolescence.

We have a new Milpas Group. Let's see if we can start a new Save our Youth group. Please.
Thank you for reading to the end. I have two at-risk SBCC students to drive home now after a quick HW check.

BTW: The Juarez family and the Parra family are NOT illegal.

cartman (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 7:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Is there an answer??"

-SanityNow-

Yes, speak out for the truth and realize that blindly following a left-wing or right-wing ideology is what is driving us into the ground.

It's a vicious cycle: conditions in Mexico are bad, and it's even worse south of Mexico so people are willing to come here and work in unsafe conditions for little money, People will hire them because they don't have to deal with citizens who want decent work conditions. The corrupt system in Mexico couldn't care less about their citizens who leave Mexico nor are they any ally of the U.S. People here keep making excuses about how our economy cannot survive without them while they cannot see that--or refuse to admit that our economy is already in the hole.

What is the answer?...look at what we were doing before when housing was affordable and also understand that we simply cannot absorb unlimited numbers of people without catastrophic results. The pressure needs to be put on the Mexican government that the U.S. will not be its perennial safety valve. Look at what other countries are doing which are successful, learn from them, take the postive of all cultures while rejecting the negative ones and be willing to admit that we need to do continual self-examimation.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 7:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And of course, let's not forget that Obama, Bush, McCain, Pelosi, and the rest of them won't touch the issue of NAFTA with a ten-foot pole.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 7:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, thanks cartman. Yours were two of the few posts actually worth reading here.

Based on the big picture you paint (and I suspect your picture is pretty accurate since you're effectively at ground zero) it sounds like prevention and helping some of these families to rise out of poverty are key ingredients.

What do you think about places like the Boys & Girls Clubs? I know Sal Rodriguez and his staff work hard to try to provide a safe place where socio-economically disadvantaged kids and their families can recreate and support each other. I'm wondering if efforts like the Boys & Girls Clubs effectively reach families like the Juarez and Parra's? If not, what else is needed to fill in the prevention cracks? Or is it just a matter of not enough of a good thing?

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 9:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

cartman- Reefer madness? Really? Come on man. You had my respect until you started to blame marijuana for deviant behavior.

AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 9:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AZ2SB: sorry to go down that path, and there are 420 reasons why I shouldn't have. I do believe it is the gateway drug our DARE Officers warned us of. ("Hey, if they're lying about this, then....")

EASTBEACH: Thank You. (It was two posts because I made it too long. I am kind of passionate.) I think the boys and girls clubs' are PERFECT examples of what can be done and is being done. Those students that chose to go there are getting more than they hoped for. The staffs are fantastic and those who fit into that particular puzzle piece excel brilliantly. I applaud all who use and benefit from both the Boy's and Girl's Club and Girl's Inc. What a treasure for our community. But, that's for those that can fit that particular puzzle. Not all can contort themselves to fit into that particular shape. Thus, we have fringe groups which grow larger and more alienated. I think we should invite THEM to the table and have a face-to-face sit-down (over-hyphenated) and just ask them questions and have them ask questions OF us. Perhaps then we could begin to solve OUR communities problem together.
Been here since '83. Traveled to over 30 countries, some twice. LOVE the feeling of returning HOME after travel to anywhere. We Live in paradise... let's try to make that a reality for all who live here and "just OK" for tourists.
I put this out there for all: What can we do to save our young boys?" I believe ALL are at risk and we need to find a way to occupy their time before they find their own method.
I have been thinking about this since Angel Linares was killed and it has consumed me. I have a plethora of ideas and the passion and the desire the trust of some homies. How can we work together?

cartman (anonymous profile)
October 18, 2010 at 11:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cartman,

Just like the rest of us, these kids were taught the difference between right and wrong in our schools, by teachers like you, as well as from their parents -- illiterate or not. For whatever reason, they chose the wrong path. You couldn't have done any more to change them. The schools did all they could.

The only solution is MORE POLICE coupled with aggressive criminal sweeps starting against young kids roaming the streets at night on graffiti patrol to older bangers selling drugs. The city needs to declare war on local bangers. All these lowlifes should be put behind bars.

I'm all for Boys Club, after school programs, etc., but the only thing that's going to definitely stop crime is MORE POLICE.
If they know they can't commit crimes in Santa Barbara, they'll move elsewhere.

Lars (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 2:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And the pot argument is bunk too. If anything it should mellow them out, not turn them into fighting, stealing, murdering maniacs.

Lars (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 2:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

very few dedicated malvados. Why reform when you can always find work catering to America's world-record appetite for street drugs? And as a dealer, your criminal record is an asset!

revisionist nailed it, IMHO. Chain gangs! Let them repay society with something other than just their precious time, and develop a work ethic in the process. Any job after prison will seem like a cakewalk. Let liberal knees jerk as they may. They don't walk home from work in ganged-up neighborhoods. Your oracles sink you like barnacles, O ye Libs! Wipe off your spectacles and grow you some testable hypotheses.

As for SanityNow's ethno-specific frothing, it reeks of veritable human nature. The American Conservative ran an article showing that age-adjusted crime rates (other than immigration-related crime) for Hispanics of non-Caribbean descent (i.e., not Black) are the same as "Anglo" crime rates, even though Hispanics are needier economically. http://www.amconmag.com/article/2010/...

BTW, that analysis excluded North-eastern USA, not Florida, Henry! Thanks for the boost.

Of course, youthful immigration still raises crime rates. But it's not a direct reflection of any Hispanic tendency toward criminality. I don't buy it, either. How much did Florida Cubans boost us, Henry?

Adonis_Tate (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

oops, truncated! Intro was props to sincerity of all commenters. And, that treating causes is too expensive even in good economic times.

Adonis_Tate (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Also, SanityNow, be advised that gangs are an American phenom, a sub-culture thing. The recent gangification of Mexico and Central America owes much to legions of bad boys being sent home to be away from the gangs. Same thing happened in Alaska, with gang-bangers' parents moving them away from temptation.

Adonis_Tate (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Adonis: "How much did Florida Cubans boost us, Henry?"

That is a good question, but has "generational" answers. The inital waves from 1959 to 1973 pretty much built Miami & the surrounding areas up quite well. Why? Simple:
1) Pride of their neighborhoods, we didn't want to live in ghetto conditions.
2) Pride of their neighbors, why be an outcast, do what's right for your community regardless of race/ethnicity.
3) Pride of ourselves, the Cuban community NEVER allowed Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton types to come in & convince them they couldn't do better. Look @ what they've done for the Black community in Liberty City. SHAMEFUL!
4) Pride of being American, we were guests here, we owed a debt of gratitude that we continue to pay to this day through hard work.
The "escoria" generation (Mariel, 1980) was a different story. While ~25% of the 125,000 (31,250) that came here were hard working people there was a ~75% (93,750) "criminal element" that Castro managed to dump on Jimmy Carter.
Out of that ~75% about ~25% (23,438) were charged for petty crimes of necessity in Cuba (stealing food to feed their families for example) while the rest (70,313) were either hardcore criminals or mental deficients released from state hospitals (where conditions were deplorable).
Using the "Scarface" scenario, a good portion of the hardcore criminals sent into the public became foot soldiers for the drug gangs in Miami, many are dead or in prison now.
What did the criminal element have in common w/ each other?
1) They felt "entitled" to "la vida buena" (the good life) that the US had to offer in terms of benefits & crime.
2) No pride for themselves, their commnuties, neighbors or the country that gave them refuge.
3) They knew the need for drugs existed.
In all, their behavior & mentality is similar to the gang member types we so often see in the news for committing heinous crimes. The parallels exist.
Of course, this is just a condensed version of things, it is WAY more sociologically complex than what little I've posted.
Adonis, again, great question :) henry

hank (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My humble point of view, I not making excuses for no one, as a Latino, living 1/2 of my life in Santa Barbara, I do not agree with the comments that classifies Latinos as the bad people, lets be fair, and those ones who break the law, should be confronting the consequences of their acts. But the ones who come here to work and do not harm to no one, why can't we show some solidarity to them, do you think it is easy for any of us to leave our families and friends and come here or to other country to try to make our lives easier, If I'm not grown, most of Americans now, are immigrant descendants, lest see, Anglo-Americans, Afro-Americans, Latino Americans... so you see, we are all Americans. Lets Put True Criminals in Jail, Latinos, whites or wherever color our skin happen to be, what really counts is what is inside no out. so let limit our anger and focus it to the real criminals. Yes I'm not on favor or gangs, but also I’m not on favor of stereotyping my people either. peace and love to all.

javierindependent (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let's not get off-track and blame marijuanna or any other subtance.

We have support for kids who want to stay out of trouble in the Boys and Girls club. And other programs.

We need a gang injunction to not only drive the gang problem under ground -- hey, if it's less visible isn't it less attractive to vulnerable kids -- and it provides a way to take bad guys off the streets, those who cannot hide in the shadows.

We talk about not blaming hispanics and illegals. I'm down with that. We're not talking race or ethnicity nor even the way your mom or dad came into the US of A. We're talking behavior. Criminal behavior.

What really stuns me is how not one person mentions the notion of parents going out with their kids on weekends. Making sure your vulnerable kids aren't really drifting to hang with the gangsters, by going out in person, by actually supervising your kids.

What gives with this? Does aanyone bring it back to the home, and the responsibility of the parents to know what the kids are doing -- those who are in the gang pipeline are in the young teens. If parents knew what they were doing and supervised them, the gang cycle could be stopped.

I am stunned at the blaming of liberal or conservative. We need law enforcement down hard, backing a gang injunction; and we need expectations that parents know what their kids are doing and preventing them from hanging with gangsters.

Ground the kids if they're off track. Have we heard of parenting?

Let's see if politicians, the mayor and council members, will stand up and do something that will protect us. Gang injunction. Ramp up expectations of parents to know what their kids are doing and keep them out of gangs.

RoboRider (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL. The Indy deleted my last comment without a trace. For those of you that read it and are interested, contact me.

Pinatubo (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The American Conservative ran an article showing that age-adjusted crime rates (other than immigration-related crime) for Hispanics of non-Caribbean descent (i.e., not Black) are the same as "Anglo" crime rates, even though Hispanics are needier economically. http://www.amconmag.com/article/2010/...
-- Adonis_Tate

Wow, that is a very interesting analysis! Its observations really run against the grain of common notions and stereotypes. Anyone who has strong opinions about the nexus of ethnicity, criminality, immigration, etc. should put aside an hour and read this.

I normally would shy away from anything associated with Pat Buchanan (his TV style is too bombastic for my tastes) but Ron Unz puts together a compelling thesis.

And I take it Hank will appreciate the distinction between the various Hispanic groups (Meso-Americans. Domincans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans) that dominate certain regions of the US :)

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 5:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"W/ libs what you'll get is an earful of woe & pity that amounts to saying the following: "Because you're "minorities" you will NEVER succeed in life because you're a minority & therefore not good enough to succeed." ..."
-- hank

Sorry hank, I'm gonna have to call you on that. That's blatant stereotyping. Many people like myself who think of ourselves as moderates or left-leaning absolutely do not think that way at all.

I think Robocop has it right. Let's stop politicizing this matter (I don't know if injunctions are effective or not). All I want to know is what are the root causes of this type of criminal behavior and what can we do to nip it in the bud (no pun intended). Like Benjy F. said, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (this should be actuarially verified but I'd guess incarceration and enforcement aren't cheap). In the end, as with most things, I suspect a blend of solutions will be needed. No dogmatic either/or scenarios proposed here!

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I meant "RoboRider".

A classic Freudian slip! :)

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I normally would shy away from anything associated with Pat Buchanan" -EastBeach-

As would I, but I give him credit for joining the few that are laughed at (Dennis Kucinch, Ron Paul, Ross Perot) for coming out against NAFTA.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 7:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Roborider These people aren't kids.
This is off the subject of this horrendous attack, it's a comment for Roborider re parent involvement. A few years ago I had one of my kids skip 2 weeks of high school when he was living at his dad's and dad was in New York. When San Marcos called I went to dad's to talk to him & he had a fifth of vodka and ounce of pot on his desk. Cops ignored this. 2 years later, when his 13 year old brother was living alone while his dad was in China for a month, I got a call from school because of his unexcused absence. I called my son about it, and he called his dad, who called his school and excused him. I called the DA attendance person & saved my answering machine message from them saying it's not a problem for a 13 year old's parent to call & excuse their absence from China, a parent's excuse is all that matters, not supervision. I'm really not a tight-a**, but this is a little insane. (our kids lived with both of us, all over 18 now, and I'm 1 female with 3 sons + dad: 1 out of 5) The next year the same kid called me & said he was too sick to go to school, fever, sore throat, earache - dad out of state. I took him to his MD and to the ER when he called at 3 am with killer earache, tried to report to SBPD, who threatened to arrest me for felony filing a false police report and neglect. The family court facilitator couldn't help because she only handles civil issues and this was criminal. The issue is that I wasn't always available & didn't know when dad was out of the state or country. Dec 2008, he was 17, crashed a motorcycle with no registration, no insurance, no turn signal, no brake light, at night, bleeding in his brain, shattered vertebrae, permanently disabled, but very lucky, just pain, numbness, risk of quadriplegia if he's in another accident because the rigidity of the titanium rods in his back make it easy to damage vertebrae on either end - no football, wrestling, small waves. Cops didn't mention this in report, harassed me and accused me of being on drugs ( not pot) when I tried to report it. It has been pretty amazing hearing these same idiots talk about their concern for our kids during cannabis dispensary filibusters.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow. So much psycobabble so little time.

An immigrant from Syria working hard and not a gang member or an X con left work one evening and while just simply walking home was BEAT to death by 4 Gang members with criminal records on a public street in Santa Barbara. Beat to Death for absolutley no reason.
There is no reason and there is no excuse. This choice to beat this man was made freely by these men. I had nothing to do with it and none of you had anything to do with it.
Their choice and only their choice.

SanityNow (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 9:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SanityNow: I think a lot of these postings, probably most of them, are based on trying to figure out why these people made this choice, and in mentioning possible reasons, are trying to figure out if anything can be changed to prevent people from making choices like this in the future. I think if we decide that some people will make a choice to take an innocent person's life and that our community or society has no ability to give them any input that will affect their choices, then we should concentrate on trying to identify people who make choices like this and protect ourselves from them by whatever means. I think there is also an assumption that people don't start life as monsters, but that their experiences influence them.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

14............We can try and figure until we are purple. Since the first caveman beat his neigboring caveman because he had a better cave or better cave paintings or more fur pelts or better clubs etc. etc. Let's stop figuring and start doing what it takes to stop this insane behavior. These kids grew up in SANTA BARBARA for Christ sakes not Somalia or Cambodia or Haiti or some slum in Brazil.
There seems to be this need to understand why people do what they do. I don't care why, I just want it stopped.
I could go on but then I will start to sound like everyone else!

SanityNow (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cartman: Boys and Girls Clubs could be better based on it's income. The national Boys and Girls Clubs CEO's compensation of $1 million was determined to be a scam by the IRS. (salary $316,000/year + other compensation). This is the kind of income our local overpaid non-profits have been trying to bury by talking about the exorbitant incomes of marijuana dispensary owners.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sanity Now: "stop figuring and start doing"?
Doing what? Do we need to figure out what to do so we can start doing it?
" There seems to be this need to understand why people do what they do. I don't care why people do what they do. I don't care why, I just want it stopped.
If your car stops, you need to "figure out" why it stopped before you can do something to make it start. You need to understand whether your car is out of gas, or out of oil, or if it ran into something much harder than itself, or if your generator or alternator isn't working , 4 flat tires, etc. You don't have to care.
I don't think you'd stand in the road and yell " I don't care why it stopped! I just want it to start again!
(the opposite of wanting something to stop)
The thinking you're using is the same thinking that the people who did this used.
They didn't figure out why they wanted to beat the crap out of this guy (they were pissed off at him, and didn't want to figure out a better way of dealing with it), or didn't think about how much they were injuring him, they just wanted to stop him from doing something they didn't like. This is about a person who isn't here anymore because of this kind of thinking.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
October 19, 2010 at 10:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If you are curious I suggest you look into a recent case involving Orlando Napier, a local musician that the independent regularly promotes, who is a white kid, that viciousness smashed a beer bottle into a fellow patrons face at a local bar. Almost blinded the kid, send him to the hospital and left him with a huge life long scar on his face for life. This white kid got sentenced to a year in county jail. He only served 5 weeks and is now free to roam about town playing gigs at bars again and we are throwing marijuana offenders in jail for years. Something is seriously wrong with our system when a violent douche bag gets 5 weeks of a year sentence and is released while we are spending millions on year long investigations into marijuana "crimes". Wake up people, do not tolerate this kind of behavior by our elected officials.

arizza23 (anonymous profile)
October 20, 2010 at 12:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I noticed the people arrested in this attack got $500K bail and those arrested in the last dispensary busts got $2mil each. It's insane all right.

14noscams (anonymous profile)
October 20, 2010 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

EastBeach: "Sorry hank, I'm gonna have to call you on that. That's blatant stereotyping. Many people like myself who think of ourselves as moderates or left-leaning absolutely do not think that way at all."

Maybe I should definbe how I use the term "liberal" because as w/ anything, it is all in the context.
To me "liberal" really doesn't have much to do w/ a specific political party, neither does conservative. It has more to do w/ a state of mind, mentality or mindset.
What I refer to as "liberal" here is a mindset that is more concerned w/ allowing things to happen to a degree that it becomes a free-for-all. This is the case w/ the increase in gang activity here in SB & the refusal of politicians to do anything about it.
Thre's many political liberals as well as political conservatives that don't want this problem.
Where the politics come in is in how the problem is dealt w/ & there's where the differences begin.
Politcally, liberal usually means more $ thrown @ the issue whereas w/ conservatives it means less government control.
My wife is on the liberal side of the political spectrum, but she firmly believes that the death penalty for these vermin is appropriate.
Does that make her a "conservative"? Not really because her political agendas are on the liberal side.
Meanwhile, a good friend of mine on the conservative side of the political spectrum believes life in prison is the way to go. Does this make him a liberal? Not really, this person is as conservative politically as it gets.
Again, it comes down to mindset & context. The context here is what has been done (or not done) in the name of getting votes from EITHER side of the aisle, even if it means they got blood on their hands from policies of appeasement (the aforementioned free-for-all) they've allowed :) henry

hank (anonymous profile)
October 20, 2010 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Look at the mug on that Mensa candidate.

no_one (anonymous profile)
October 20, 2010 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Too much of our law enforcement is focused on ridding the world of marijuana, even though the voters have told them to stop.

PUT THOSE RESOURCES INTO STOPPING THESE VIOLENT GANGS!

How hard is this to understand? The Sheriff and the DA need to be recalled, and the Chief of Police needs to be replaced by the Mayor now!

How many people are being beaten and killed by marijuana?
How many people are being beaten and killed by gangs?

I've lost faith in our law enforcement officials completely...

bronc (anonymous profile)
October 20, 2010 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

When I grew up, my definition of "liberal" was my parents who believed in equal rights for all, and recognizing that not all people had the same advantages in life and that those more fortunate needed to help out. We were also reminded of the evils of racism and sexism. Nonetheless, they also taught us about personal responsibility and (gasp!) when we defied their authority, my friends, sister, and I would get a spanking--not a "time out". Not surprisingly, we didn't have a big discipline problem in our neighborhood and school.

Today what we see are feral kids growing up without parents in the home because the parents are too busy working two to three jobs in the cheap immigrant labor scam to be there with their kids so the schools are raising these kids which means no true parental guidance nor ability to keep these kids in line.

We can talk about sending them to the gas chamber, or creating more at-risk-youth programs, but what needs to be recognized is that our society is creating these miscreants in number far greater than can be processed by either suggestion.
It's really all pretty simple: look at the root of the problem, but for many if not most people, that would mean confronting their long-held political and social ideologies

Those who attacked Ied are part of a growing trend and while punishment and/or spending more $$$ for after-school programs will deal with the symptoms, the cause is resulting in a tsunami of this sort of behavior..

billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 20, 2010 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

(This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of use policy.)

contactjohn (anonymous profile)
October 21, 2010 at 1:46 a.m.

The dull eyes, a sociopath, a demon, one who has not a soul, a parasite who has learned to blend in because he is not like us, not him, not the others, not just murderers but non humans, you need to recognize them and understand the death penalty is for monsters like this, the ones who are like rabid dogs and need to be put to death, because they are not and never will be human.

contactjohn (anonymous profile)
October 21, 2010 at 2:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Were they shouting racial epithets as they beat him to death? You bet they were, will someone please come forward? The Syrians are Christians, peaceful, loving, productive. Justice?

contactjohn (anonymous profile)
October 21, 2010 at 2:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OPEN-CARRY!!!!!!!

dou4now (anonymous profile)
November 10, 2010 at 10:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, you can see the shoe-sized IQ in his droopy clueless eyes.
Have fun being the new prison broom closet!

Draxor (anonymous profile)
March 11, 2013 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

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