Bring Back Reagan Economics

Bring back the Clinton Economics.

Who increased the debt?
Reagan - 189%
Clinton - 37%
Bush - 86%
Obama - 35%
http://www.flickr.com/photos/speakerp...

Jobs created:
Reagan - 16 million (8 years)
Clinton - 23 million (8 years)
Bush II - 1 million (8 years)
Obama - 3million (3 years)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/speakerp...

Reagan set us on the path of deficits (Cheney: deficits do not matter), alleviated somewhat by Clinton to a projected surplus, and plunged once more by 86% by Bush II. The Bush tax cuts are now the biggest contributor to the deficit.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/speakerp...

Income of the wealthy has increased by 250% since Reagan, while that of everyone else has flat-lined.

Nope, Reagan started the country on his downward spiral; bring back Clinton economics and reinstate regulations of the financial industry which is bankrupting the country, while they make out like bandits. Will add another post about a nefarious part of the 2005 Bankruptcy Bill.

"As a short-run strategy to reduce inflation and lower nominal interest rates, the U.S. borrowed both domestically and abroad to cover the Federal budget deficits, raising the national debt from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion.[13] This led to the U.S. moving from the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.[14] Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.[15]"

And, the US has remained a debtor nation since Reagan. Some legacy.

A little history reminder for our esteemed author of this article.

Ronald Reagan RAISED taxes not once, not twice, but three times following his first cuts in 1981. He also raised taxes on two occassions as Governor of California.

It was also Ronald Reagan who signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 granting 3 million illegal aliens legal status in the United States. The hero of the so called conservatives, once said "are great numbers of our unemployed really victims of the illegal alien invasion or are those illegal tourists actually doing work our own people won't do? One thing is certain in this hungry world; no regulation or law should be allowed if it results in crops rotting in the fields for lack of harvesters."

Reagan supported fair tax policies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YYP3p...

I see a bird shooting out of a clock and making a noise. The bird sounds the alarm 'koo-koo', still, some people don't know the time, or the year for that matter.

As someone who survived the nightmare Reagan years a return to those failed policies and gluttonous attitudes is not appealing. Reagan's canonization amongst so many people is seriously misguided, uneducated and at times disgusting.

"There WAS no arms for hostage deal" -Ronald Reagan-

Thank goodness Baghdad Ken "survived" the Reagan years. You poor soul; so brutalized, tortured, and abused, it's a wonder you can make it through the day...you must feel like you've come back from the brink of death with late stage breast cancer...
btw-I think Reagan was kind of an idiot and his second term a clear train wreck, albeit from what I can tell(my English was marginal when he was elected) during his first term he was surrounded by very smart guys. He did work with Democrats and was willing to compromise contrary to current mythology, a statement that Tip O'neill concurred with.
I can't stand, and don't understand Reagan's deification any more than I can stand or understand people protecting Obama.

Many people here criticize Reagan. The only alternative at the time was 4 more years of Carter. I haven't heard even one person here say that would have been better. I think many of the people here want to think that stagflation we had in '79 and '80 would have magically disappeared if Reagan and Volcker hadn't done what was necessary at the time.

Carter would have been better.

In America, even a yellow dog named Reagan can be a hero:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12...

On Reagan I concur with the late great John Huston, who said of Reagan: "He has a low order of intelligence. With a certain cunning. He's one of those people who thinks he is right. And he's not right about anything."

As President of SAG, Reagan was also active in the blacklisting of artists during the McCarthy era.

Personally my favorite image of Reagan is from Don Siegal's version of the killers, as a hood with gun drawn. Still they say personally he was a "nice guy" but "a bore".

Some of you are forgetting what led to Reagan: CARTER :) henry

Carter, recognized mow as being a great President despite the myopic vision of voters at the time. Nobel Peace Prize, Habitat for Humanity, world respected leader. Reagan, just a collection of light and shadow; a fantasy to be trotted out at election time to garner votes for sunshine patriots and those too young to know the truth.
The Punk Reagan fans in the 80s were posers and most went back to their day jobs, if you'll recall Hank :)

You have been taking too many hallucinogenics Ken.

What would you know Botany about me and what do you know about the topic?! Anyone who promotes the Reagan presidency as somehow gloreous and successful is either a huckster themselves or completely snowed over!
He will be forgotten, except for the occasional screening of "Cover-Up: Behind the Iran-Contra Scandal".

A Monarchist espousing Reaganomics.. hmm

KenV: "What would you know Botany about me and what do you know about the topic?! Anyone who promotes the Reagan presidency as somehow gloreous and successful is either a huckster themselves or completely snowed over!"

There goes Ken again, ASSUMING nobody knows more than he & ASSUMING people are actually glorifying the Reagan admin.
Alright, here Ken, 1 more time, read carefully: "Some of you are forgetting what led to Reagan: CARTER."
No glorification of anything or anyone, just an explanation that is really more an indication of the natural order known as human nature.
Human nature dictates that if humans ain't satisfied w/ product x they'll happily switch to product y.
Carter was product x, the American people opted for product y, that is the basic explanantion other than they felt ANYONE was better than Carter :) henry

The Reagan campaign paying the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election also helped.
Whether voters in 1980 preferred Reagan is irrelevant to the fact that until G.W. Bush, his was the most crime-filled administration since Nixon. Anyone who defends it is ill-informed or criminally-minded.

So you have proof that Reagan, as dumb as you claim he was, was brilliant enough to pay the Iranians to hold the hostages until after he got elected?
Talk about ill-informed & criminally minded & to think, you'll never be president.
What crimes Ken? Start a war? Clinton did that too w/ Serbia, remember? Pick on Iraq? Clinton did that too w/ constant missile strikes on Iraqi installations. Heck, Clinton even cruise missiled an aspirin factory in the Libyan desert!
By the way, Ken, you might want to check how you word things, the way you ended your typically accusative rant claims that anybody who defends your position is ill-informed & criminally minded. Glad to know I ain't such, thanks a bunch :) henry

The author made a few good points that are really independent of which president was 'best'.

The tax code is a "industrial mess." Too complicated. Based on political deals and social engineering. All I want is a simple tax code so I can focus more energy on my family and business. A simple tiered, no deduction income tax code that EVERYONE pays something, regardless of income. Maybe even a new small sales tax (2%?) just to pay down the debt principal over 75 years.

The author slightly exaggerated by saying that " ... our government’s huge size is a direct result of .... the complexity of the IRS code". The IRS and the tax part of the Justice Dept is maybe 5% of the govt? But his point that simplifying the tax code would (or could) reduce the govt. is correct IF there are corresponding federal staff reductions which 'count' toward the missed deficet reduction targets.

Even though I am a Republican, I have to disagree that tax reductions should come first (or at all) UNTIL the budget is balanced (i.e. NO BORROWING). With the US govt borrowing 40% to meet it's budget, we have to:
1. Reduce the size of govt. Which REALLY means review each law that requires the govt to have a staff to enforce the law and ask "Is this the role of govt?"
2. Streamline govt: For example, highway repair taxes should go straight to a state's highway repair fund. Skip the side trip through the Transportation Dept. The DC crowd should only focus on approving brand new freeway construction. Leave repair and improvement decisions at the state level.
3. Review/scrap laws that tell business HOW to run their businesses. The laws should state requirements; let businesses determine and implement the how.

Both parties are lost. Someone needs to have a simple message and the leadership to implement and make people smile as we pay our taxes. Sadly, I just don't a positive message. While Reagan was a good commincator and motivator, everytime as governor or president he stated that govt needed to be smaller and not into people's lives, the opposite happened. I need results; not talk.

The assertion is the same against both Reagan and Bush Jr.:They're so incredibly dumb that they masterminded the wackiest, most complex and Machiavellian schemes in modern history.
Either they're too stupid or they're too smart. Make up your jello brains.

Carter gave us Reagan.
Bush Jr. gave us Obama.

A perfect quid pro quo; the country is even. Let's get our collective heads screwed back on and push restart...

Anyone who demeans Ex-President carter at this stage of history when he has proven correct time and again, and who has spent his time on humanitarian projects not golf courses and board rooms needs to examine their values.
As for Reagan, a Jensen Institute study shows that for 9 out of 10 Americans, the longer Reagan is dead the funnier "American Psycho" gets.

You keep referring to the accomplishments, or lack thereof, of Carter's career AFTER his single term presidency.

I like his POST Presidency Habitat for Humanity stuff.
I hate his POST Presidency Middle East stuff.
I believe he is a man of true conviction; sometimes misguided.

As with your continual assertions about his "greatness" these are opinions about what he did after being Commander in Chief.

We agree that the revisionist idolization of Reagan is weird. I think your fantasy about Carter being great while in the Oval Office is unique to you and just as misguided. But of course, you're a "Reagan Survivor" and probably suffering from PTSD. You crack pipe will not help with the PTSD either...

KenV: "Anyone who demeans Ex-President carter at this stage of history when he has proven correct time and again, and who has spent his time on humanitarian projects not golf courses and board rooms needs to examine their values."

There goes Ken again, riding the high horse that goes by the name of Myopia (actually, HISopia, not mine).
Ken, what did Carter ever achieve as a president other than be the laughing stock of the world, give the USSR the upper hand on everything including SALT negotiations & let the economy flail?
In fact, the Russians preferred dealing w/ ANY Republican admin because @ least they knew how to say "NYET!" & could effectively negotiate arms reductions & controls.
The Carter admin would just roll belly up & whine, something the USSR mocked time & again.
Habitats for Humanity (something I've actually volunteered on) was his post-presidency pet project, he didn't do it as president, therefore it ain't an executive action.
The sad part of this humanitarian charity is that in some cases corruption, nepostism & cronyism (yes, the evils only "conservatives" can be guilty of) has seeped into that program.
I will give Carter this: He did bring Begin & Sadat together to forge a peace deal that would ensure Israel's restraint in having to kick everyone else's butt in that region time & again.
But based on some anti-Jewish rants of past made by Carter I think the reason he negotiated that peace deal was to avoid his anti-Jewish friends from getting beat in every war they waged against Israel.
By the way, what's the difference between demeaning Carter or say, Dubya & anybody "needing to examine their values" for doing so?
There's this thing called opinion Ken, that's what we write on here, that "we" includes you.
While I will demean ANY ex-president I wish to demean (including Carter), I will not have a need to examine my values because the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution allows me (& you) to make such assessments based on my knowledge, experience & whatever else you want to throw out there.
Please Ken, examine YOUR values sometime, you'll see that every post you make you sound more like a watered down pc version of the "do as I say, not as I do" Lenin/Goebbels/Stalin/Amin/Pot/Castro/Mao type.
By the way, Carter is a Castro lover, I know Carter would love you too :) henry

After reading some of KV's pro Carter AND anti Semitic/anti Israel ramblings I thought it might be interesting to have a look at the group of bigots that KV is in bed with. It seems the Aryan Nation shares Ken's view. So does Mel Gibson. I've included a cute little quote from another U.S. Nazi/Aryan group, Stormfront:

"Congratulations Jimmy Carter, you have some backbone after all! Now, if the power-mad Zionist Lobby keeps it up, (i.e. their ad homonym smear attacks on the ex President), then hopefully the imbroglio will turn out to be even bigger and better than the attempted defamation of Mel Gibson and his movie! We need to encourage Jimmy in any way that we can, as this opportunity may be literally 'heaven sent'. As a matter of fact, opportunity is knocking loud as hell! Send him positive emails, and give positive feedback at Amazon.com or anywhere else that you can. Now is the time to fan the flames and strike while the iron is red hot!"
--From Stormfront (12/9/06)

You're in very good company KV. Funny how socialist Progressives are really Fascists and how easily they find each other.

YOWZA! That was a 10,000 lbs. bunkerbuster! :) henry

Apparently KV has taken Stormfront to heart and is giving positive feedback and fanning the flames whenever possible. I haven't even gotten to the similarity with Ahmadinejid from Iran...

Both left and right are wrong again....

Reagan's deficits helped the United States recover from recession.

The last thing we need now is balanced budgets. The market knows this. Hence why the interest rates are at the lowest rates ever.

With higher deficits we get lower interest rates. The opposite of knee jerk economic theory that both left and right point at.

Yeah we need to make the tax code more understandable and take away most deductions but a flat tax with our income inequality is no panacea. In fact it is more destabilizing. Capitalism cannot work without both producers and consumers. Kill the consumer with lack of income and higher taxes, kill the economy. The way the consumer kept up with producers is by going into debt. Those days are over. The balance sheet recession era has begun.

Carter brought peace to the ME with the Camp David Accords. Reagan brought war and repression, his administration sold chemical weapons to the Iraqis who used them against the Iranians.

No less a journalist than Christopher Hitchens has written about the Reagan campaign's secret deal with the Iranians to keep the hostages. Actions that bring up questions of treason frankly but William Casey conveniently died. Here is video of Hitchens:
http://thefilmarchived.blogspot.com/2...

Hitler was a vegetarian. Does that make all vegetarians Nazis?

People from the moderate Right and Left will always have something in common with extremists because even the most diabolical of extremists will have a grain of truth to what they say.

Conversely, Reagan (like Carter, Clinton, Bush etc) did some things that made sense, but being human, were faulted.

Our job is try to make the world better.

KenV: "Carter brought peace to the ME with the Camp David Accords."

There goes that lefty knee jerk again Ken, better get that fixed, it can & usually leads to stumbles.
In the same vein that you can accuse people of/for things, I can accuse Carter's motivation for the Camp David Accords on his friendship w/ Jew hating nations & the fact that EVERY time they tried to whup Israel, they got their butts handed to them.
It was insurance for the hostile nations who support his view(s), well, views based on actual rants & mumblings by Carter, especially of recent. W/ age, the truth comes out.
As for C. Hitchens, he wrote for The Nation where he penned vociferous critiques of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and American foreign policy in South and Central America.
Vociferous critiques amount to 1 word Ken: OPINION. Hey, that's the same stuff we got going here!
On the subject of treason, Carter should've been brought up on that charge for weakening/disabling America's capability to defend itself against hostile attack as well as give away national security secrets, even during a State of the Union speech. Again, works both ways Ken, accept it, learn it, live it :) henry

Hitchens provides evidence but some people are too lazy or blinded by hatred and fear to learn about what they're talking about.

Alright, let's try this again. Hitchens doen't provide proof or evidence, he provides vociferous critiques which amount to nothing more than speculative observation, opinion & maybe good for an international thriller. There, is that more "civil"? :) henry

By the way Ken, here's a little about your supposed hero Hitchens that may just shock you:

"The years after the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie saw Hitchens looking for allies and friends. In the United States he became increasingly critical of what he called "excuse making" on the left. At the same time, he was attracted to the foreign policy ideas of some on the Republican-right that promoted pro-liberalism intervention, especially the neoconservative group that included Paul Wolfowitz. Around this time, he befriended the Iraqi dissident and businessman Ahmed Chalabi. In 2004, Hitchens stated that neoconservative support for US intervention in Iraq convinced him that he was "on the same side as the neo-conservatives" when it came to contemporary foreign policy issues. He has also been known to refer to his association with "temporary neocon allies".
Following the 11 September attacks, Hitchens and Noam Chomsky debated the nature of radical Islam and the proper response to it. In October 2001, Hitchens wrote criticisms of Chomsky in The Nation. Chomsky responded and Hitchens issued a rebuttal to Chomsky to which Chomsky again responded. Approximately a year after the 11 September attacks and his exchanges with Chomsky, Hitchens left The Nation, claiming that its editors, readers and contributors considered John Ashcroft a bigger threat than Osama bin Laden and that they were making excuses on behalf of Islamist terrorism; in the following months he wrote articles increasingly at odds with his colleagues. This highly charged exchange of letters involved Katha Pollitt and Alexander Cockburn, as well as Hitchens and Chomsky.

Well, if what you say about him, that he "provides evidence but some people are too lazy or blinded by hatred and fear to learn about what they're talking about" then he MUST be correct, especially on this matter. I already like the guy, a lot!
By the way Ken, looks like you're the guy who is "too lazy or blinded by hatred and fear to learn about what they're talking about" because it seems you missed this HUGE chunk of info on Hitchens. By the way, still waiting for that evidence :) henry

Hitchens isn't doing anything now; he died yesterday.

The reason that hank, bc, and I can communicate is because none of us are political ideologues.
The reason I seem to agree with waz is because we apparently believe that everyone is capable of excellence if they take personal responsibility for their actions.
It's painless for me to admit that Carter was a lousy President, then had some great humanitarian efforts, and then foisted some global views that were anti Semitic. Unlike Obama's racist Liberation Theology, Carter is a true man of faith and he has backed it up in his own community by helping everyone he could.
Reagan had a good team the first term and worked closely with the Dems, then IN MY OPINION, things went rapidly downhill as his mental acuity went into the toilet and the B Team around him ran amuck(think lil' Ollie North and their secret lil' war), he also used massive deficit spending to push our economy which hardly makes him a poster boy for Conservatism.
Why's it so damn difficult for nuts on the right and left to realize this point of view? The world is not binary and it's simply good clean entertainment to prod nitwits that think their political philosophy is somehow "pure" and exclusively moral and correct.
However, bc, is it true that all vegetarians are Nazi members and sympathizers?You should have told me sooner. I just thought they were wacky for denying millions of years of evolution which made us omnivores...

BillC: "Hitchens isn't doing anything now; he died yesterday."

Yeah, I know & that was probably the only reason KenV invoked his name, aside from grasping @ straws (again).

Just had an epiphany of sorts this morning about what determines the title of "journalist" or "artist" or whatever.

From the history I know of Hitchens, Chomsky, Vidal, et al, & based on their writings I've read, it all amounts to pomposity & arrogance. They call it a battle of wits, I call it a jerkfest.

W/ that said, I could go by the title of "journalist" based on the fact that I wrote for the UCSB Daily Nexus opinions column from 1993 to 2008 (when that publication fell apart).
Does that make me a "journalist"? Absolutely not! All it made me was an opinionated blowhard, something I still am today.

Let's switch to music. I've been playing guitar since I was 8 years old, picked up the drums when I was 10, picked up the bass guitar when I was 11, played French horn in jr. high for a couple of years, played sitar w/ the UCSB Northern Indian Ensemble for 3 years, also played ud & sas (Mid Eastern intruments) for that time as well, still can play guitar & bass & in fact still do.
Does all that experience make me a "musician" or "artist"? Hell no! All it makes mke is a jackass that can pick up notes & match them on the instrument of choice.

I think this is the bane of "intellectuals" or "artists" that have self-appointed titles of superiority, they put out material that while of "critical" thought, it really just boils down to critique, opinion & usually w/ a bias.
Then there's the hyper-inflated sense of self-importance, like the world can't do w/out them, that goes along w/ them.
The world did fine before they came to be & the world will do fine long after they're gone.

The other bane "intellectuals" have is their following, a following that is overly willing to go by anything the "intellectuals" say/write to the point of blind obedience.
When I get criticized by any followers of SUPPOSED "intellectuals" I look @ this obedience they have & ask the following: Who's the sheep now?

When it all settles, it's somebody's word against another & the truly intelligent will accept that as the truth.
Those that don't, well, blind bias is a sign of reduced smarts & all the "intellectualism" in the world can't hide that, all it proves is you're a nut on 1 side or the other :) henry

Do yourself a favor and don't assume I exist in the same cultural vacumn as many of you. I am well aware of the scope of Hitchens career (and I posted the video many hours before anyone knew he had passed.) While I personally may have not always agreed with him, at least he was consistent and did his best to go with concrete info. The Bush admin lied to everyone, including him. And he was the first to say so.
And if one person is a dilettante it doesn't mean the rest of us are.
Reagan was thug that allowed AIDS to proliferate because he didn't like the people who were the majority of its victims at the time; and would stop at nothing to advance his own career.

No assumption neccesary Ken, you make it clear time & again, thank you for clarifying once more, you're awesome. there. is that "civil" enough? :) henry

And Happy Holidays to you.

KenV: "And Happy Holidays to you."

Merry Christmas & Happy Hannukah as well Ken, may the New Year bring you, your loved ones & those around you great things :) henry

In celebration of our mutual heritage, I wish Ken and Hank a Happy Kwanzaa.

"However, bc, is it true that all vegetarians are Nazi members and sympathizers? You should have told me sooner. I just thought they were wacky for denying millions of years of evolution which made us omnivores..."

Italiansurg: I think it's time told you the truth about "Ken Volok", "Hank" and Waz--they are all part of a secret cover up and the Hank/Ken rift is created to confuse us.

"Ken Volok" is actually the escaped Nazi war criminal Martin Bormann, and he's been living in Hank's apartment for years. Bormann, who was born in 1900, was presumed dead in 1945 but with the help of the Polish-Argentinean sympathizer Carlos Wazny "Ken" has been living the good life in I.V. with his buddy Hank. His ruse is truly amazing, even though he is over 110 years old; Volok/Bormann appears to be only in his 30's. He maintains his youthful appearance through a combination of high colonics administered by his health guru Dr. Sven Snug Bills, a weekly fasting regimen, and (of course) a vegetarian diet of biodynamic origin. Needless to say, Hank and Waz are also part of the militant vegetarian scene.

Considering some of the posts in this thread, I'd say this one is about par for the course on the logic scale.

First, I should have known waz was/is the real mastermind.
Second, I think I observed someone getting a high colonic in the Penn St locker room so I know of what you speak.
Third, does this mean that all vegetarians are Nazi sympathizers/recidivist enemators(my new word) or that only the Nazi leaders have attained this level of purity/cleansing?

As with the rest of life, the more I know the more questions I have...

Was? Das ist einfach verrückt! Ich möchte versuchen, etwas zu tun gut und plötzlich bekomme ich warf der beherbergung ein nazi ist. Vielen Dank Bill, sie blies mein cover. Ich glaube, es war für das Wohl der Menschheit :) heinrich

Alles die welt endlich wissen das "Hank" ist nicht Hank, und auch das Ken Volok ist wirklich Bormann.

Was ich weiss ist das ich binz. Pass auf dich auf.

I hope there's a google translate that will do this quickly since I am now OBLIGATED to understand what you wrote. Like I had nothing better to do...

Translation:

Hank wrote: "Was? Das ist einfach verrückt! Ich möchte versuchen, etwas zu tun gut und plötzlich bekomme ich warf der beherbergung ein nazi ist. Vielen Dank Bill, sie blies mein cover. Ich glaube, es war für das Wohl der Menschheit :) heinrich"

What? That is crazy. (I think einfach means onefold) I wanted to look up something and suddenly I became a Nazi. Thanks a lot Bill, you blew my cover. I believe, it was for the best of humanity. Hank.

I write (gleaning what I could remember of the German I studied)

"All the world knows that "Hank" is not Hank, and also that Ken is really Bormann.

It's me, take it easy.

bc-not only did you explain the previously unexplainable but the time I saved by not having to translate can be better used for, oh I dunno', washing the neighbor's cat ...