This Is Not Your Daddy’s Protest
An Idiot’s Guide to Occupy Santa Barbara
Thursday, October 27, 2011
Somewhere on State Street between Bank of America and Chase, I realized that marching in a protest rally is a lot like walking. I’ve never demonstrated before, and I wasn’t part of the weekly Occupy Santa Barbara rally to protest, but to report. So I pinballed back and forth between occupiers asking them what they’re so pissed about. While all of the regular court jesters, conspiracy theorists, and semipro activists were on hand, most of the participants didn’t resemble the tie-dyed, flower-power, Vietnam-era washouts and wannabes I associate with these events.
When the more vociferous marchers crowded the windows of bailout benefactors, I fell to the back, where Katie Snyder stood with her 5-month-old son strapped to her torso. She’d just been walking down State Street to get her baby to sleep when she joined the march and started chanting, hoping to set a good example for her son by speaking up against injustice. As we watched the protesters shake their poster board signs, Snyder told me, “I’m part of the 99 percent.”
“We are the 99 percent” — which reminds that just one percent of Americans own nearly half of the country’s wealth — has become the official slogan of the Occupy Wall Street protests, which began on September 17, when hundreds of people took over Zuccotti Park in New York City’s financial district, built a tent city, and started inspiring similar protests around the country. The movement hit Santa Barbara in early October when crowds began occupying De la Guerra Plaza and sleeping in front of City Hall. That resulted in some arrests, but the city has tolerated the daytime occupation, as well as the Saturday protest marches through downtown, which on October 15 drew close to 500 people.
The one I followed along last Saturday was much smaller, but like Occupy Wall Street, the public support only seems to grow, at least on the Internet, as Occupy Santa Barbara’s Facebook page has tallied more than 330,000 hits as of press deadline. Occupiers can discuss, debate, and plan through Facebook, Twitter, and other blogs — free and far-reaching online tools that are being used in the same fashion as they were during the Arab Spring — and the clearinghouse has become the OccupySB.org Web site, where users can post videos of the protests, as well as notes from the daily “General Assembly” meetings. Those experiments in democracy, which go down locally every night in De la Guerra Plaza, are also borrowed from Occupy Wall Street, which ripped them from protest movements in Cairo’s Tahrir Square and Madrid’s Puerto del Sol.
As I shivered through three descending dusks watching a clutch of wide-eyed youth and battle-scarred rabble-rousers stumble their way through General Assembly meetings, I questioned whether I was observing a phenomenon with enough direction to be called a movement. But maybe — like the critics who bash Occupy for lacking identifiable leaders and a list of demands — I was missing the point.
One of the brains behind Occupy Santa Barbara’s technological machine is Alex Luhrman, who also does occasional computer work for this newspaper and has been intensely watching this year’s protest movements both at home and abroad. When I ran the common critiques of Occupy by him, he was quick to argue that action and specific demands aren’t necessarily important, at least not yet. “The state of the problem is so huge that it’s not about coming up with a solution until the problem is discussed,” said Luhrman, explaining that the movement is in the highly important networking stage, with protesters around the country gathering email addresses, creating social media sites, and connecting with each other. That means, said Luhrman, that whenever the time for action arises, people will mobilize immediately, and en masse.
By Paul Wellman
Test Tube for Democracy
Despite the national storyline that Occupy protesters are unfocused and disorganized, three distinct grievances emerge when you talk to the protesters individually: money in politics, wealth disparity, and a lack of democracy. Over and over, I’ve heard complaints about last year’s Supreme Court decision that allowed corporations to dump even more money into elections, anger that the bankers who engaged in reckless speculation have avoided punishment but been rewarded with bailouts, and concern that politicians care more about moneyed interests than their constituents.
These issues are aired during the nightly General Assembly meetings, where protesters attempt to harness the ideals of democracy that they feel are forgotten. To do so, they use hand signs to signal their desire to speak, as well as their approval or disapproval of other speakers’ points. Participants are encouraged to put their talents to use by joining one of the many committees — which range from communication, finance, research, and legal to synthesis (which ties into the larger movement) and funk (whose purpose remains a mystery to me) — or starting a new one. The assemblies can grow unwieldy as occupiers get sidetracked by philosophical quandaries, tangential discussions, and uncertainties about proper procedure, and, as they approach their two-and-a-half-hour time limit, they tend to make even the most laborious City Council hearing seem concise.
“People feel like they don’t have a voice in the system.”
But some folks, like Mariah Messer, who attends the meetings after teaching adult-education classes at Santa Barbara City College, are inspired by the community-building aspect of the process. Others — such as one man who didn’t want to be identified, worried that parents of children at the elementary school where he works might be bothered by his involvement — believe the General Assembly offers a “brand-new radically democratic movement.” And that’s a welcome change to him and others who feel their votes no longer count, for he explained, “People feel like they don’t have a voice in the system.”
Altogether, this brand of discontent is a reflection of a moribund economy and gridlocked political system, but the framing of Occupy as a struggle between a teeming proletariat and a small, powerful ruling class sounds like the stuff of a third-world revolution rather than 21st-century America. It’s hard to ignore, though, that as wealth disparity continues to grow nationally, the problem is even more acute in Santa Barbara. According to the census, even as California’s population grew 10 percent from 2000 to 2010, the city’s population dropped by 4.2 percent, as the high cost of living squeezed out families and made the city’s population much older than it is across the state and country. Income here is slightly higher, but home prices are more than double the state average, opposing forces that tend to push out the middle class. As such, Occupy Santa Barbara might even make more sense than similar movements in less moneyed areas.
But can such a movement actually effect change, whether on Wall Street or State Street? John Foran, a UCSB sociology professor, believes so, explaining that Occupy has a much broader appeal than, say, a left-wing Tea Party movement. Drawing a line from the Zapatista rebels in Mexico through the Arab Spring to the Occupy protests, Foran explained to me that, while radical democracy can lead to radical chaos, the recent Egyptian example illustrates that, with broad social consensus, it can lead to real revolution. Although he can rattle off a laundry list of issues that he hopes the protests will eventually address, Foran sees no immediate need for Occupy to take up an explicit political platform. “Concentration of wealth in this country is the problem,” he said. “Let’s get people to buy into that message.”
Leaderless Revolution vs. City Hall
Paul Wellman
On my first night embedded with the protesters on De la Guerra Plaza, Wesley Birch, a scraggly twenty-something from Carpinteria with wavy brown hair just long enough to pull into a ponytail, warned me, “If anyone says they speak for the movement, don’t believe them. They don’t.” In one sense, he’s right: Both Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Santa Barbara can be traced back to online catalysts, but the five minutes it takes to make a Facebook page doesn’t really amount to central planning. But he’s also wrong, in that the Occupy Wall Street movement was inspired by calls to action from the Canadian anti-consumerist group Adbusters and that, in Santa Barbara, a few faces do become a bit more familiar than others when hanging around De la Guerra Plaza.
One of those faces belongs to Marshall Getto, who disavows any leadership role but is clearly a major player in the area and travels by bus from his job as a data systems analyst for ABC-CLIO in Goleta to attend the assemblies. “It is amazing that a bunch of strangers could put this together in less than two days,” said Getto, who was inspired to protest while watching live Web footage of Occupy Wall Street protesters marching across the Brooklyn Bridge. He saw 700 of them being arrested in real time and was aghast when none of the major news outlets publicized the event.
While beards and tattoos abound at the General Assembly, Getto is clean-cut. He shows up wearing dress pants and Gordon Gekko-like hair. He also speaks with a deep voice fit for a baseball announcer, a natural advantage when addressing audiences. Though he’s active in the Santa Barbara Democratic Party — his roommate is party chair Daraka Larimore-Hall — Getto claims he does not want Occupy Santa Barbara to get co-opted by either a political party or, for that matter, any other interest group that has lent support.
Getto’s sharper image also plays a moderating, perhaps even sobering counterweight to some of Occupy Santa Barbara’s firebrands, such as SBCC student Robert Villegas — who calls himself Fire Penguin Disco Panda — and Justin Kennedy, an electrician who heckles City Attorney Steve Wiley when he leaves work for the day and heads to his car. Though Getto isn’t heckling Wiley himself, he has questioned City Hall’s response to the protests, which have involved arrests and citations, even asking during a recent online City Council candidate forum, “Do you believe that Santa Barbara residents have the right to exercise their First Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution to protest peacefully in De la Guerra Plaza?”
To the occupiers, Wiley has become persona non grata. They believe he is the mastermind behind their repression, for he was the one who advised City Hall to continue issuing citations to the handful of protestors who camp overnight in the plaza. “I don’t pick and choose what laws to enforce,” he explained. “If we did, we’d get accused of favorable treatment.”
But some other cities have decided to ignore ordinances to accommodate Occupy campers, and in Los Angeles, the City Council even made a show of touring their downtown occupation to express solidarity with the protesters. With a conservative-leaning majority, it’s unlikely that Santa Barbara’s City Council will amend the ordinance that prevents people from gathering in the plaza after 10 p.m., and Wiley believes that the other cities will soon regret their decisions, as temporary tent cities become permanent homeless encampments.
But occupiers like Getto, Kennedy, and Fire Penguin Disco Panda continue to claim that their rights to assembly and free speech are being trampled, so they’ve contacted the ACLU and lobbied the City Council to have their charges dropped. In the bigger picture, though, the whining about police oppression in De la Guerra Plaza may be more of a distraction than just sticking to the movement’s main message.
Back at the march last Saturday, as we made our way toward Wells Fargo, that simplistic yet effective chorus was once again reiterated to me by Katie Mullen, an unemployed veterinarian who was pushing a bicycle adorned with a sign proclaiming “Corporations Are Not People.” When I asked her why she’d become part of Occupy Santa Barbara, she did not hesitate to answer: “So much money is in the hands of so few.”
By Paul Wellman
As of now, the Occupy Santa Barbara General Assembly is maintaining its weekly march on State Street every Saturday at noon. (That did have the Thrill the World crew worried about whether there would be room for their annual “Thriller” flash-mob dance in De la Guerra Plaza this weekend, so they relocated to the S.B. Courthouse Sunken Gardens, but that’s another story.) The next nationally coordinated action is planned for November 5, Bank Transfer Day, when citizens are urged to close their accounts at large banks and transfer their money to local credit unions. Steve Phillips, a computer programmer who says he owes $100,000 in student loans, is trying to convince eight area credit unions to sponsor advertisements for the event.
In the meantime, even if the rallies dissipate and true believers vacate De la Guerra Plaza, the Occupy protests will continue to burn white-hot on the Internet in the weeks to come. It’s possible that the movement is becoming less dense and more dispersed, but it’s not slowing down at all.
Occupy Santa Barbara will be hosting a public forum at De la Guerra Plaza this Saturday, October 29, from 2-4 p.m. Current city councilmembers and running candidates are invited to attend and provide official statements. For more information, visit OccupySB.org.
Comments
I suggest The Independent runs a poll among the people that feel they don't have a voice in the system to find out how many of them actually vote in election times. If the majority has not been voting they could start there. If they are participant voters already then the next step would be to engage in politics, or even form a new political party. Local elections coming up soon !!
gvalladares (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 2:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Considering that all or nearly all of the problems identified by this movement are purely federal decisions, one might think that working with the same energy to elect four or five new and politically progressive U.S. Senators would be a far more efficient mechanism to resolve the problems so well identified by this movement.
Also, one wonders why the Occupation is in a city park instead of a county, state, or federal facility. The city finances to pay extra for the park repair and police coverage are part of the 99% as well.
John_Adams (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
@SantaNa: "Anarchy symbols can be observed to be central to their campaign(s) and many, or most of the members consider themselves 'Anarchists.'"
As we learn in high school civics, anarchy and anarchism are two different things. While your definitions of "anarchy" are cute and all, they do not define "anarchism" as it pertains to a form of government - which is, very basically, a belief that hierarchical forms of government are inherently corrupt and should be avoided.
@SantaNa: "Threats of violence have been rumored, and verified by members of town hall if the citations already issued aren't dropped."
My mixed feelings about the local SB OWS protests aside, I have a distinct feeling this particular claim is nothing short of bull****.
EatTheRich (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 6:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I wish that the protesters had a clearer message and would more clearly define what it is that they are trying to gain, besides a sense of community with the others in the park. This IS going on across the country and some of these occupancies of public areas have resulted in violent behavior. It is not appropriate to camp at De la Guerra plaza and the city is right to stand by that city law and give out citations. The citations won't get paid though because a ton of the people that are protesting don't have jobs. The protests, nationwide, seem to be a big draw for young people that don't have jobs or don't want to get a job, or are homeless and want to camp out and be part of something. I know that not everyone involved is jobless or aimless, there are a lot of highly responsible folks out there too and I really wish that some of them would help define what the whole purpose is for those of us who aren't involved because it may motivate us to get involved too. In order for change to come there needs to be the most diverse mix of people out there possible but I would not take time off work to protest something I don't understand.
I want to support it, and imagine many others do too, but we can't do that if we don't understand the point. I'm a parent that HAS to work, even if it is at McDonalds, because I have kids to support. I can't comprehend being unemployed or homeless because of my work ethic, there ARE jobs out there, they are just "beneath" our kids that we raised to think that they are too good to do the work that illegals come from Mexico to do. You have to start somewhere, usually at the bottom, even if you have a college education, that's how life is a lot of the time. Unfortunately 99% of us were NOT born with a silver spoon in our mouths...
I think that a lot of good change can be promoted but the objectives need to be more fine tuned, suggestions and solutions should be offered, demands made, etc. Without those things it's just a bunch of people sitting in a park saying they are "the 99%"... well yes, so am I. So, as the 99%, where are the demands? I've been reading all the stories and looking at the facebook pages and I can't figure it out. It just looks like something to do from my outsiders point of view and that disappoints me!
santabarbarasand (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 7:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
100% agreed with santabarbarasand's comment.
localsb (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What happened in Oakland is not at all comparable to Occupy SB. There is a deep history of conflict and racial tension in Oakland that seems to keep the police and the community on hair trigger alert and leads to out of control behavior like police sending a 24 year old Iraq war vet to the hospital with a fractured skull. This is not at all likely in Santa Barbara and I don't think that anyone wants this to happen here.
Also, they are not representing the 99% as a whole... They are only representing themselves, as a member of the 99%. There is a definite difference there. The movement so far has only desired to get people talking about economic inequality, and that is working. The 99% label itself speaks to money matters, and says nothing about politics. The genius of this is that there is a 99% chance that you are in the club and if you have something to say about it, regardless of political persuasion, you have a large group of club members as a built-in audience to your cause. The larger message is that it is important to be active in shaping your government at every level in so much as that body has jurisdiction over you in some way.
SBGuy224 (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hello my name is Ricardo Frustockl and I am part of the 99%. Since I am in two of the pictures in this write up I would like to address some of the statements made here in. Brandon Fastman says “but the city has tolerated the daytime occupation” First of all it is our RIGHT and duty to protest when governments are not for the people by the people. 1st Amendment anyone? “The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.” And so again it is our duty not just a right.
Next he says that the facebook page has got 330,000 hits. Does he know of someway that no one else does on a page hit counter?
Then he says things like “As I shivered through three descending dusks watching a clutch of wide-eyed youth and battle-scarred rabble-rousers stumble their way through General Assembly meetings” Really cause most of the regulars at the meetings are in the 30’s and 40’s and have jobs might I add.
You know I could go on and on to point out the faults in this article but I will stop with this. We the people have had enough of business as usually both locally and nationally. From B.P. being allowed to bid on drilling rights to G.E.’s strangle hold on Nuclear energy production “Fukushima anyone”? To Monsanto GMO seeds. To Bank of America about to move 75, Trillion dollars over to their public side of the bank that we all know will go belly up again and then the tax payers will be stuck with the bill. There are plenty of things wrong. We have some very clear conversations on what needs to change. I challenge anyone who complains in the comment section to come on down and join us. Share your thoughts and ideas. Be the change you want to see in the world, I am! One last thing if you want to know about Anarchism maybe you might want to start reading alternative press and websites like this one http://www.anarchy.no/horizon1.html
Frustockl (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a direct quote from the website (occupysb.org), it didn't take me hundreds of hours doing questionnaires, attending every single GA in the park, a simple TWO MINUTES of research can do wonders.
"Occupy Santa Barbara strives to utilize consensus via non-violent, transparent, participatory and horizontally organized processes to enable outreach to build a collection of voices including those of the disenfranchised and discontented. Our commitment is to create an equitable, just community where all can enjoy a high quality of life.
Occupy Santa Barbara is committed to ending corporate control of our government and to empowering all people through the establishment of a truly democratic process."
Remember, the point of this movement is not for a few people to come together and give everyone else all of the answers, quite the opposite! If you don't think they have a clear message, GET DOWN THERE and make your voice heard! The finger pointing and blame game is OLD OLD OLD news..
Also realize, THERE IS NO "THEY". That way of thinking is EXACTLY, what allowed the 1% to continually take advantage of "others", AND is EXACTLY what this country is beginning to shy away from, thanks to this movement and current events worldwide. From the perspective of this movement, all actions you have seen this far are for YOUR benefit, as well as "theirs". And if you disagree, tell them to their face. From what I have experienced, they GLADLY accept ANY AND ALL criticism, as long as it is with the intention of POSITIVE change.
..."empowering all people through the establishment of a truly democratic process."
It seems pretty clear and straightforward to me, Occupy Santa Barbara wants to EMPOWER ALL PEOPLE, and let each voice not only be heard, but understood. The mind set of " I am waiting for this movement to get clear enough, so that I can spend as much time as possible finding any tiny thing at all to DISAGREE with or DISASSOCIATE myself from, is downright silly.
From the article-
1. "When I ran the common critiques of Occupy by him, he was quick to argue that action and specific demands aren’t necessarily important, at least not yet. “The state of the problem is so huge that it’s not about coming up with a solution until the problem is discussed,” said Luhrman, explaining that the movement is in the highly important networking stage, with protesters around the country gathering email addresses, creating social media sites, and connecting with each other. That means, said Luhrman, that whenever the time for action arises, people will mobilize immediately, and en masse."
This is just something to think about when judging this movement from the outside-in.
In response to the quotes from Alex Luhrman's quotes-
These three CLEAR, SUCCINCT, and DIRECT points are the prelude for identifying the exact problems that the 99% want fixed, and pave the way to bring about change in an organized, intentional, peaceful, and positive way.
JohnDoe (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
RE: Violence and anarchism
I have attended most general assembly meetings and have been a serious organizer since the beginning. I have not heard one person talk about violence as an option. I don't know if you're all aware of this, but when a police officer beats a person up, that's violence. Some people in our group "demand" that the SBPD be trained in non-violent conflict resolution. I personally think that's a great idea. The person who suggested this is a self-proclaimed anarchist. The anarchists are also, believe it or not, the only ones who consistently bring blankets, food and medical supplies, daily. Impossible? I guess so.
RE: Logical fallacies
Remember logic, folks. Ad Hominem is when name calling is used to discredit a speaker. "those anarchists" or "those hippies" or "those idiots" are not forms of logic, rather they are childish insults. People use logical fallacies when they are either incompetent to better articulate a sound or cogent argument, or when they are consciously trying to derail a conversation. Google "logical fallacies" for more information.
RE: Demands
The problem with demands is that not everyone agrees within OSB about what they think is the "most important" issue. Ending corporate personhood, or at least dismantling or re-writing shareholder primacy within CA or Federal corporate structures, is something that comes up a lot. However, why should we quickly say that this is our number one demand? Our research committee toils daily and nightly to find out precisely what corporate personhood is -- it's complicated! As are many issues. Another issue is institutionalized racism, which is arguably MUCH more complicated than the financial system stuff. The proposed gang injunction, the spatial apartheid policies that denigrate people with nowhere to sleep. We're running into these problems getting 15.16.250MC (curfew 10pm to 6am) 15.16.070MC (no camping) and 647(f)P (illegal lodging). The city administrator told me personally that if you don't own or rent property, have nobody to take you in, you're liable to be cited or arrested. This is wrong on many fronts. So "demands" seem like a reactive demand by a culture of people who want soundbites and short-term solutions.
RE: Any negative opinions
You know... we meet DAILY. You can come meet WITH US. You don't have to hide behind a computer. De La Guerra Plaza, 6pm, general assembly. 5pm is discussion hour. We hold workshops all the time. Free skool. I don't know why people are so quick to criticize and demonize people who are meeting *every day* out in the open, when they have the opportunity to go talk to them. Culture is a funny thing. If you think there's something wrong within your culture (a set of learned behaviors), go teach those you disagree with otherwise. The internet is sterile. Please come talk to OSB in person. They're just nice folks talking in a circle. The News Industry isn't particularly objective, hope you knew that already.
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ya, this whole running around yelling 99% is getting to be annoying! It's like someone made a facebook page(s), through some chanting and sign slogans on it. A little road map to the free thinkers but it looks more like sheep at this point. It needs to be defined to a goal or at least a movement where they are on the same page.
I really think to that the social media (facebook, etc) is hurting this cause more than it is helping. There is no one central location to organize these protests. If you Google "Occupy Wall Street" there are hundreds of sites that come up and they are all conveying a different message. The Egyptian protests were different they were using centralized sites with one clear message. With these protests anyone with a computer/smart phone makes there own site confusing the cause. If we and the protesters want to make a difference it needs to be organized within.
miked442 (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
RE: Voting Culture
I like that somebody here and others later will talk about "whose voices are heard." Surely, American voter turnout should be higher. But let's think about some peoples' lives outside of our own culture bubble who might find civic participation difficult.
A woman who immigrated from Mexico (legally, if that matters) and has a hard time learning English because most white folks won't look her in the eye. It's surely better here than working in a sweatshop in Tijuana, and although she has family and friends, and there are a lot of spanish speakers, this particular culture doesn't look at voting as an option because most people in this culture didn't have "civics" classes in Mexico. Moreover, nobody from the more privileged communities ever reached out and said to this woman and her friends and family "what are your wants and needs? how can we help you better transition from your harder life into this easier one?"
Perhaps we would have found in asking this woman what her wants were, that she just wanted people to accept her emotionally. To not look down on her for being overweight and brown skinned, and because she couldn't think of the right words to say in English. Maybe she is so depressed and anxious about her image, seeing skinny white girls on all the posters in Santa Barbara, all the dresses don't fit her, she doesn't think voting is worth her time. 2pm city council public comments? She can't get time off from her 2 jobs to tell the city council how she feels about white girl dresses. That's inappropriate anyhow. Who is she to tell this White Supreme Culture about what's wrong with it? Her friends and family get deported left and right. She doesn't want to be very visible.
45% of SB are "latino/a" and this doesn't get discussed.
If these ideas are interesting to you, and you don't feel inclined to use insulting, negative language to insult this hypothetical woman, or me, for using this story to make a point, I recommend watching the trailer for the new film Miss Representation, here:
http://missrepresentation.org/
Another site you should check out is freepress.net. Free Press is working to change media policies so that more democratic media (yes, The News/Story Industry is undemocratic and entirely profit driven) can fit into our culture. Currently our options for access to positive, empowering narrative are extremely narrow.
You can read POSITIVE NEWS, which is solution-based journalism, which empowers people, at
positivenewsus.org
--Please think outside the box, empower the 99%, reach out to the 99% -- <3
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How do we address these problems? Do they relate to any of the bigger problems in our culture, such as "demand" for violent video games, violent movies, violent news articles?
* Domestic violence is 2 to 4 times more common in police families than in the general population. In two separate studies, 40% of police officers self-report that they have used violence against their domestic partners within the last year. In the general population, it's estimated that domestic violence occurs in about 10% of families.
* In a nationwide survey of 123 police departments, 45% had no specific policy for dealing with officer-involved domestic violence.
* In that same survey, the most common discipline imposed for a sustained allegation of domestic violence was counseling. Only 19% of departments indicated that officers would be terminated after a second sustained allegation of domestic violence.
* In San Diego, a national model in domestic violence prosecution, the City Attorney typically prosecutes 92% of referred domestic violence cases, but only 42% of cases where the batterer is a cop.
http://www.purpleberets.org/violence_...
How do we create a culture of empathy?
www.ted.com
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's break down the logic!
All anarchists are bad (not true).
All anarchists are good (not true).
Some anarchists are violent (true).
Some police are violent (true).
Some Post Office Workers are violent (true).
etc. SantaNa: You can email me at mlg5454@yahoo.com and I'll give you my phone number. I will formally invite you to come to our general assembly meetings, but here's another formal invitation: 6pm daily de la guerra plaza.
I think that you have some assumptions about anarchism that I don't agree with. That's at the heart of disagreements. Let's fix it!
Anarchism 101 with Noam Chomsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G6kf7...
Anarchism on WIkipedia, with hundreds of sources you can check at the bottom of the page:
Anarchism is generally defined as the political philosophy which holds the state to be immoral,[1][2] or alternatively as opposing authority in the conduct of human relations.[3][4][5][6][7][8] Proponents of anarchism (known as "anarchists") advocate stateless societies based on non-hierarchical[3][9][10] voluntary associations.[11][12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
Your logic is really not that great but that's OK! Hey, can we agree that neither of us know everything and we can constantly learn new things?
Let's provide sources for when we refer to things that require outside information. The internet is a great place for sources! Opinions are one thing, though. We can SHARE opinions. Let's talk in person at de la guerra plaza! Wow this is so healthy, not insulting people and trying to get along!
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Has anyone heard of Cruzito Herrara Cruz? He's a local hero of mine. An extremely LOGICAL, INTELLIGENT and ARTICULATE person who is both BILINGUAL and MULTI-CULTURAL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DDfUQ...
Cruzito LIKES SPANISH SPEAKING PEOPLE and wants JUSTICE for people! Do you think that more police brings more justice? I'm not sure that increased law enforcement logically begets more justice. It's scary though... Michael Self and Dale Francisco follow this logic. Unfortunately, this logic hurts a lot of people in Santa Barbara.
Is Santa Barbara for white people only? I think that Michael Self and Dale Francisco think so. Do you think so, whoever you are reading this? Is Santa Barbara FOR white people? Let's be frank about our opinions. When you think of a Santa Barbara Person, what color is their skin? (Skin does have color, don't be shy!)
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
SantaNa, I also would love to see you down there to get things cleared up through understanding. To be clear, the 99% is an idea, of course there isn't EXACTLY 99% of the population that thinks one way and 1% that doesn't, so trying to use that general phrase and misconstrue it as our GOAL and NOT a representation of the majority of the people who identify with the movement, is also very silly.
Yes I do believe (my opinion) the movement wants ALL voices to be HEARD. That does not mean in any way that it will MOVE in literally every single direction that is ever presented. ALL, means ALL, no room for confusion there. We have already seen widespread support of "foreign interests", as for the dissenters, the people can hear them out, THEN throw them out if that is what is agreed upon in consensus, that's not for me to decide. If the voice of the 1% is the only voice heard today, through the media, banks, government, take your pick, then there is no need to empower them in the first place.....but if all of the sudden only the homeless's voice was heard, I believe the movement would move back to achieving a balance.
Personally, I see Bernie Madhoff and the 1% bankers as much more of a threat to our country then every single random man or woman wearing different garb than yourself, so "foreign interests" has no powerful negative effect on me.
Yes "people who rip us off, and predators against children" too, are they not also human? Were they not at one point an innocent child just like you and me, who were perhaps not "Created" but assuredly persuaded and led to become who they are now BY THIS VERY SYSTEM WE ALL WANT FIXED?
Perhaps if their voices could be heard, people could actually understand the motives BEHIND their actions, use them as an example to learn from to benefit the rest of the community.
JohnDoe (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What you see in De La Guerra Square will only grow bigger until real , and positive change is enacted. The more force, arrests, violence and I daresay ignorant snarks by online commentators will only make the movement stronger.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You don't need to align yourself with anyone, but taking away people voice and rights as citizens is an ultimate crime.
JohnDoe (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"You folks" "anarchists".... your selective hearing saddens me.. but I still appreciate you at least saying SOMETHING and getting the ball rolling. Thats what this movement is all about.
JohnDoe (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
SantaNa, what are you afraid of? How can I help you? I promise that I will never put you in a closed box, closed category based on any name, label, symbol that you might in any moment or for any period of time, feel attached to or strongly about. I believe that we are all individuals. Who are you? What do you want? How can I help you get it?
If you want the anarchy symbol taken off the banner, you can go to the 6pm General Assembly and propose that taking the banner down be put on the agenda. It WILL get put on the agenda. There WILL be a discussion about said proposal. If people disagree, you will hear why. If people agree, you will hear why. Your voice WILL be heard. If you choose to believe that "all people in occupySB are bad because _______ and therefore i will never attend a meeting to voice my opinion," that's all you man! Good on you. I hope you're fighting for positive change in your own way. I'm sure you've done some regretful things you feel guilty about in your time just as I have, but we can change. We're always transforming into better people, unless of course we choose to believe otherwise. Good luck, SantaNa! what's your favorite video on www.ted.com?
And for the record here is what dictionary.com says. I have SELECTED the third definition out of the 4 on there, just as you might SELECT a more negative definition. Can all definitions be true and none at all, simultaneously?
Anarchy
Noun
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
http://dictionary.reference.com/brows...
***
I WOULD be interested in your group, but you hang out with ___________ people.
anarchist people
black people
gay people
mexican people
blue people
Must this habit of thinking of people in terms of the words attached to them only? How about challenging ourselves to rise above this poor logic, this ill compassion, this obsession with language, and experiencing people on the individual level, looking for what strengths people have?
One way of thinking:
"Some people are child molesters and therefore all people have the potential to be bad"
One way of thinking:
"Some people grow avocado trees and therefore all people have the potential to be good."
I personally think in both of these ways and neither, one and the other, it changes based on experience, based on information, my mood. I imagine that I am not very different from others, including SantaNa. My email, SantaNa is mlg5454@yahoo.com and I'll invite you to my home and I will cook you a meal and give you tea.
What is anarchism? (1:30 minute video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WEFBN...
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Occupy Mortecino! lol,stand in front of Oprahs 75 million dollar house.
GluteousMaximus (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OH! And for anybody who wants to better understand "logical fallacies" who never took a logic or critical thinking class (I know education is expensive and some schooling just doesn't seem worth your time, I agree), here's a great link:
http://beach-beach1983.blogspot.com/2...
Logic is not the only form of reasoning though! Emotions are very valid and each person who feels strong emotion should be honest about their emotions. Like when I am offended by what somebody has said and I want to yell or attack them, or cry or hurt myself, I say "I feel offended that you have said x, y and z."
That kind of thing is something people call emotional literacy. Some cool guy wrote an entire book called Emotional Intelligence which is a radical idea for those that think our schooling system "works." (Many of us believe it's broken, and unfair, and frankly very discriminatory in many ways). If you want to learn about Emotional Intelligence go here -- totally free education:
http://eqi.org/elit.htm
Best of luck to all humans reading these posts! Please try hard to make the changes in your lives and communities you want to! And don't let people who are incorrect and proud of it, or cruel and sadistic, make you think that you can't progress! Many cops beat their partners, we can change that. Many migrant workers are getting deported and are being taken from their wonderful families, we can change that. The political system is entirely, completely bought off and unfair, we can change that. Keep fighting!
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
FINAL COMMENT
Once again, I'm not "the one" doing anything. It is not under the name of anarchy. As a matter of fact, I do whatever
I can, personally, to shy away from the ideas of anarchy, AND ESPECIALLY using the word. Mainly, because it already has such a power, emotionally, politically, and historically negative connotation (which im sure SantaAna, you are QUITE aware of, just observing you using that label over and over again to hopefully scare anyone away from this movement).
My personal experience, includes me hearing about this movement from a friend, offering my time and energy to bike around and put up flyers if someone else would put up the money for printing them. Without ANY hesitation that I could see, a man volunteered to put up 20 dollars for this cause, and we continued from there.
Did I check is he was a fascist/communist/Maoist/Taoist/anarchist pig beforehand?
NO!
That WASN'T THE POINT.
The point was, I came (admittedly at first with a bit of my own personal agenda, but that changed drastically, and soon after), LOOKING for something I could AGREE WITH, and someone to HELP or SHARE an experience with, and hopefully learn from and coincidentally teach.
I DID NOT come in with a narrow mind, looking for excuses NOT to join ANY part of the movement.
I DID NOT come to LABEL other people and look down on them.
And to tell you the truth, the LAST thing on my mind on ANY given day is whether or not each and every person in the movement agree's with all of my views. One quickly realizes how efficient it is when focusing on things you can AGREE ON with people, instead of actively searching to stop something that in a majority of peoples eyes, is for YOUR BENEFIT.
JohnDoe (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
SantaNa, you introduced the word "anarchy" at the top of this thread, implicating the individuals involved in this movement of participating in it. Your assertion doesn't make the descriptor true.
The occupy movement is petitioning the government for a redress of grievances, so by definition the government has not failed and is not absent. Everything about their behavior is protected free speech under the constitution.
You imply violence to discredit them, when nothing about violence has been brought up by them. Your tactics are a bit dishonest...but we still love you!
SBGuy224 (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If the protests end up being used by the republicrats (either major political party), these people will be getting played. Santa Barbara Democratic Party chair Daraka Larimore-Hall will try to spin this to support his candidates Murrillo, Schwartz, and Falcone, who are funded by the developers and unions that profit from the status quo. "Is'nt it ironic, don't ya think?"
Georgy (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Which developer has funded Cathy Murillo? And are all developers bad guys?
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey Georgy, can you provide some internet links showing who has funded the city council candidates?
And if anybody hasn't seen this video by Cruzito Cruz, it's REALLY good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DDfUQ...
Here's another good link (sources are so cool) that talks about white privilege (what's that? how do i feel when i hear the phrase 'white privilege?'):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjReUL...
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry to inform most of the uninformed on this thread but IT IS "anarchy."
Just a simple Youtube search under "Wall Street Protesters" and you will see thousands of videos self-made, random and otherwise professing "Socialism, Communism, Over-throw, Kill Capitalism, F^%$ the cops, Vandalism, Environment destruction (By the very people who scream enviro protection), drug use, violence and a host of other ridiculous demands.
I say keep it up it just shows us all your lunacy.....
Priceless (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry for the long link, Priceless, but to prove you wrong, here's a link to a photo of a few Occupy SB protestors:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...
The young guy in the middle is holding a homemade sign that is in support of a more progressive tax structure. Hardly anarchy.
SBGuy224 (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
(guy = girl)*
SBGuy224 (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Priceless:
Your logic seems to be that
If some people are X
all people are X.
X, for you, seems to be
anarchists
pro-socialists
pro-communists
anti-capitalists
anti-cops
vandals
environment destructionists?
drug users
violent people
"If one Occupier is violent then all Occupiers are bad."
very similar to:
"If one Police Officer is violent then all Police Officers are bad."
I empathize with you as a person! As people none of us are perfect. Perfection is impossible anyhow, and who would want to be perfect? When it comes to logic, argument, making points, I personally like to be as reasonable as possible.
So Priceless:
Do you have any accessible, well articulate points to make, or admittedly emotional points, to make about
individual people who identify as socialists / communists
individual people who want to overthrow something
individual people who want to kill capitalism
individual people who don't like cops
individual people who commit acts of vandalism or who destroy the environment
individual people who use drugs (which ones, by the way?)
individual people who are violent
What are the hosts of "ridiculous" demands? I really want to know!
And as lunacy is being considered, have you ever taken a psychometric test of any kind in order to try understanding your own mental status? Are you familiar with the DSM-IV? It's the book that psychologists use to define mental illness. We're all crazy in different ways. If you want to have a public discussion about mental illness, or "lunacy" as you call it, I think that would be an interesting conversation!
Let's also remember logical fallacies, Priceless. Name calling, which may be a behavior your parents or peers taught you, isn't a logical form of argument formation. Calling things "ridiculous" isn't an argument, and placing a myriad of complicated events and persons into the category of "lunacy" is not an argument either.
I encourage all people who post on this forum to engage in logical argumentation, to cite sources, and to express their emotions honestly. If you think some people are lunatics, you may get your point across better by stating "I feel afraid when I see that some people are acting violent. In THIS video (link) there is evidence that some persons identifying as [group name] are committed acts of violence. This scares me and makes me wonder what the point of this all is."
I encourage you, Priceless, to attend our daily 5pm discussions at De La Guerra (there are parents, Republicans, business-owners, not just cannibals and rapists! I promise) and 6pm for the General Assembly. Also, you can find complete transparency of all discussion and minutes at occupySB.org.
Good luck to all readers in learning new things and to making positive changes in their lives and in helping others who need help mentally, emotionally, financially, spiritually and otherwise.
<3
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 5:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey sorry I'm totally flooding this thread but I'm having a lot of fun. I just want to share this totally awesome RSA Animate talk with all readers, it's called:
Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us.
Here's the link. It's A M A Z I N G, let me know what you think! How do you think our DRIVE as people, humans, as animals, effects this whole OCCUPY "lunacy?" I have a lot to say but want to hear others. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPn...
:-D
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 5:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow, a blizzard of wall-of-text posts with random capitalization. Is Neil Baker back in town?
Tambora (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The real "Anrachists" are those who want to dismantle banking and environmental regulations, and those who'd prefer a dog eat dog society as opposed to an equally affluent, educated and healthy community.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ken_Volok:
How do you feel about corporate personhood, shareholder primacy? What about worker owned and run businesses and cooperatives. I really enjoy hearing peoples' informed opinions, what about you?
I like Germany's setup: 50percent of votes comes from a board of directors, 50percent comes from workers. In our system, 100percent of votes comes from the board of directors, and with shareholder primacy written into the corporate code, profit often holds primacy over people and ecology. That's a pretty poor design.
Study permaculture!
(use search engines! use ted.com!)
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Corporations aren't people, that's a no brainer. Coops ect are great. You can rest assured my opinion is always informed and don't need a condescending lecture, thank you.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 6:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sorry for being condescending, Ken_Volok. I was a bit confused from what you wrote -- my bad.
--
Changing the subject here, who here thinks that there should be more Latino/a city council members? I certainly do. I think this is perfectly on topic with Occupy and all other topics being discussed.
Here's some great information for readers to check out on the topic of **institutionalized racism**
http://www.eraseracismny.org/our-work...
Cheers!
:-D
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 7:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
professorcuddlecore, you went overboard, I can't read all of that. I got bored and overwhelmed very quickly. Sometimes, less is more; the ability to get to the point is valuable. If this is a taste of what the meetings are like there is no way that I could handle attending because I think I would leave and still not comprehend the point because you take too long to get there. There are so many things in life that need to get done and I don't have the luxury to be involved in such disorganized activities. Thanks for the effort, even though I think you actually deterred people from participating with your overzealous replies.
Progress doesn't come from choas, it comes from people who have a plan and purpose. I get that you're saying that people are brainstorming ideas but how long have they been brainstorming now and still have no demands? They think it would be good for police to have more training to not be so violent. Is that the #1 issue in our city, really? No way... housing and employment probably have a much wider impact on what is hurting Santa Barbara right now. Oh and gang violence and illegal immigrants.
santabarbarasand (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 8:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If more people had the patience to read big blocks of text we wouldn't have the problems we have.
Good night.
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 10:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think we have one of our voices. We want the people and the local government to divest from to big to fail banks and back into the community pretty simple and effect goal if you ask me. http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/
"The Move Your Money project is a nonprofit campaign that encourages individuals and institutions to divest from the nation's largest Wall Street banks and move to local financial institutions. Little has changed to prevent another financial crisis or to end 'Too Big To Fail,' and with Congress unwilling to act, we are encouraging individuals to take power into their own hands by voting with their dollars and no longer contributing to a financial system that has led our country astray. We are a campaign that gives people real, concrete actions they can take to create a more sane, stable and localized banking system. "
How is that for demand?
Frustockl (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2011 at 11:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
professorcuddlecore: ¿Que tal la gente que hable este idioma pero no son de la herencia hispana?
Siendo que Ud. se ocupa tanto de raza.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 4:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
El unico color que importa es el color verde--como el color de los billetes que se usan para comprar. El que paga manda.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 4:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Frustocki, that's better :) I can say that being a native Santa Barbarian that I am a big advocate for keeping my money local and I only bank with local banks. I try to keep my money where my heart is, in this town. As a native of SB the main thing that concerns me is housing. I am 40 years old and have worked full time since I was 15 but I still cannot buy a house because they are so outrageously expensive. I have friends in other cities that make less money than me but are homeowner's who pay $700 a month for their mortgage. They give me a hard time for staying here but this is my home, my family is here.
I am not political and coming up with demands to government, local or larger, is not my forte. Nor do I have the time to devote to political aspirations, or protesting, etc. A lot of people are in my situation, we have no choice but to work full time because we have to support our families. I consider going to work to be a proactive response to a poor economy, working increases my spending potential, period. I think that is where I get critical.
As someone who works downtown and pays a lot of taxes, I can't help but wonder if the occupiers are paying for outhouses and cleaning up the plaza daily, or are they expecting the city (our taxes) to clean up after them? How many are sitting there instead of looking for jobs while they collect welfare or unemployment? How many are ditching school? How many are ignoring their children?
santabarbarasand (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 7:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I currently work for a corporation. Prior to that I had worked for local companies and what I have found to be a big difference between the two is that the corporation has programs in place to take care of their employees and their families. If I am sick I can call in sick and NOT get called by my boss to be talked into coming to work. If I have a function at my child's school I can go, not the case with the various local employers I worked for. I have affordable medical, dental, long term disability and life insurance as well as stock options. That is my experience working for a big corporation. So is it corporations that are the problem or is it financial institutions? Why did the banks get in trouble? Perhaps a large part of it was having so many dishonest real estate lenders that were processing bogus loans? Like those wacky loans that they were giving with 0% down that were interest only at first and then turned into regular loans with payments doubling? Do you really think that the corporations TOLD the brokers and agents to falsify applications for home buyers and give bogus loans to thousands of people? No way, realtors work on commission, they get greedy, I deal with them almost daily at my job and it is appalling how demanding, rude and greedy most of them come across as. They will lie, cheat and steal to get those commissions!
Or the war that so many supported back when Bush first started it, or the illegals that are now eligible for school loans in CA, or our youth that we have raised to think that they are too good to start at the bottom and work their way up who would rather be unemployed and homeless than work and put that money back into the economy, etc. It is not all about the banks but I suppose if that's what people want to focus on then hey, I'm already doing my part by banking locally.
santabarbarasand (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Prof Cuddle Core "If more people had the patience to read big blocks of text we wouldn't have the problems we have."
Your lack of focus and cohesion makes it so that you can't be taken seriously. If you have a point and can get to it and express it clearly you may actually get the response you want but when your posts are full of quotes and caps and blabber you are just as bad as the politicians that talk so much and throw out so many previously said phrases that at the end of their speech the audience is left unsure of what the politician actually stands for. I am happy to read as much as needed if it is well written and makes sense and there is a point, not a spiel or preach, like what you have been writing.
Also, I noticed you were posting like a fiend during the time that you said the SB Occupy meeting was so were you playing on your phone during the meeting or did you skip it because this debate was more enjoyable? I'm very curious!
@ Bill Clausen - haha you crack me up! Thanks for starting my morning with a smile, I needed it :) :) :)
santabarbarasand (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 7:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Re: Bill Clausen
I agree! Green is the most important color. I'll be hosting a permaculture workshop from 4-5pm tomorrow at De La Guerra Plaza with Barbara Wishingrad, manager of the Green Living Co-op, if anyone is interested.
Re: santabarbarasand
I wasn't at GA last night. I was developing a community building workshop at the ranch where I live in Goleta.
I covered many points in my posts above specifically because there are several points that need to be covered. I don't have "one main point." I agree:
-move money out of big banks, go credit unions
-I particularly think the Permaculture Credit Union is the way to go, although it's only Savings at this time
-corporate personhood is at the root of many of these problems, and here's where we can learn how to take care of this at the local level: http://paulcienfuegos.com/node/3
-more cross-community discussions must take place, ie PUEBLO and the Permaculture Guild; Domestic Abuse Awareness women and the SBPD -- the links don't seem obvious at first but they will if you really think about the nature of most peoples' struggles
-Cruzito goes over quite well how funding allocation should change in SB in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DDfUQ...
--1/2 of all our taxes go to military spending, that needs to stop
That's great that you work so hard. Wouldn't it be nice if businesses could be owned and operated by the workers though? How do we get society from here to there?
also, you said:
"As someone who works downtown and pays a lot of taxes, I can't help but wonder if the occupiers are paying for outhouses and cleaning up the plaza daily, or are they expecting the city (our taxes) to clean up after them? How many are sitting there instead of looking for jobs while they collect welfare or unemployment? How many are ditching school? How many are ignoring their children? "
We pay $100 a week for a portapotty via a local business owner. We store our signs and tables and tents with him and pick them up in the morning. Nobody expects the city to do anything but harass us, that's what they're intent on doing. Many are working very hard, some are umemployed but they don't represent "the movement." I don't know of any who are ditching school. We have daycare.
I'm glad you're asking questions instead of assuming and insulting. This is pretty good communication. If you have other questions my email is mlg5454@yahoo.com and I'd be willing to talk on the phone. I work remotely and have lots of free time. I hope you're having a good day at work and are engaging in civic participation, as we all should.
Very much on topic:
I highly recommend this ted talk called "the empathic civilization:"
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/jer...
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am intrigued by writers and commentators continually focusing on 'what is the message?' of the Occupy Movement. Having just marched in Chicago I am looking forward to getting a flavor of the SB and LA gatherings to verify or challenge my sense of things. Here's the message I received,not from a sign but from the feeling of being there: this is about people looking around and seeing others who are not necessarily just like them sharing similar sentiments. That is the beginning of solidarity, which provides the necessary social capital to move to clear calls for action and plans. Jumping to plans before taking this crucial step leads to poor planning. What I love is how simple and natural this solidarity is growing, organically by literally just looking around. I marched next to two older men in their labor union jackets. I was literally moved to tears, how much bravery does it take for a mainstream working class guy to come out into a setting where people are being called anarchists? How amazing it is to put aside a personal sense of shame or failure if you can't provide for your family and join with kids who can't pay back college loans? Solving this will unfold if each step is taken seriously. This step, that of just showing up, is the most important one of all.
patallen8 (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Identifying demands will be the easy part. Getting people to understand the problem is the hard part.
The wake up call is for us, the 99% to recognize that our interests are being held hostage by the dominant 1%. That 1% continues to take our tax dollars, manipulate our votes and compromise our future. Meanwhile they love it when we 99% squabble amongst ourselves.
Here is a perfect list of squabbles provided by
SBSAND:
"...Or the war that so many supported back when Bush first started it, or the illegals that are now eligible for school loans in CA, or our youth that we have raised to think that they are too good to start at the bottom and work their way up who would rather be unemployed and homeless than work and put that money back into the economy, etc. It is not all about the banks..."
artfarm (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Re: "illegals" (lol)
US foreign policy and corporate policy is the reason "illegals" come here. Would you want to come to a place where you don't know the language, where people look down on you, just so you can make "money?" Money is not happiness; community is happiness.
Most of Mexico is populated by subsistence farmers and small scale communities who are dismantled systematically by the state -- a state system the U.S. basically invented -- and American corporate influence. NAFTA forced communities into slave wage labor, which is why they risk their lives to come to the United States. Some die, some starve to death, just to get here.
What would it take for you to cross a border full of murderers trying to snipe you, hunt you down and torture you, just to work at MacDonalds or pick tomatoes from dust 'til dawn? How racist are you?
Watch this video, make the connections,
What is HUMAN PURPOSE? Money or community?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPn...
thanks for the support, chicago folks!
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As a 99%er I decided to wake up, get dressed, get on my bike, pedal to work, put on my bunnysuit, occupy my lab bench & toil for a Fortune 100 company that:
1) Allows me 3-4 wks. paid vacation each year.
2) Allows me as much sick time as I need for whatever would ail me.
3) Affords me decently priced insurance, health, vision & dental.
4) Pays me sufficiently to pay my rent (utilities included), auto insurance, gasoline for my car (a 1990 Honda Civic w/ 345,000 miles, not much gas use since I mostly ride my bike, skateboard or walk), internet service & groceries (not organic, too expensive).
5) Pays me sufficiently to afford my race bikes (I keep the cost down by not buying into over-priced components), skateboards (alright, some of those are free, being a once sponsored skater has perks), snowboards & snowboard trips, surfboards (don't go through those often) & paintball guns as well as little vacations out of town for racing bikes, skateboarding, camping or just for fun.
6) Has an atmosphere of respect & safety.
7) Allows me a 401k program that puts $ aside for future issues that may arise or when I chose to stop working (no retirement in my future, that's the reality).
There, it all comes down to this about ANY of us: "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!"
Am I entitled for any of those "perks" mentioned above? Hell no! Do I work my tuckus off to get those "perks"? Absolutely. Would I have it any other way? NOT!
Nothing against the occupy protests, this is America after all & you do have the right to legally assemble, petition the government & so forth.
The problem I have is when people speak of "redistribution of wealth" & pc crap like that that amounts to nothing but a desire for a failed/failing system known as socialism.
If you think capitalism is bad, try socialism, the way many see it as "viable" like in places like Cuba where I was born.
It is simply the politics of envy. "Ooh, those rich people have it so good, I want what they have, but don't want to earn it so I'll force the nanny state to seize it for me" is the message some of the demands & attitude emit.
Call me a douche for this comment, maybe I am. But I'm a happy douche & in the end, it is all about me, for me & those close to me that I can immediately help or assist.
My decisions directly affect me & that's the only person they should affect. Indirectly, who the hell knows or even cares?
I'm still occupying my lab bench in my bunnysuit in solidarity of my fellow workers, it's Friday & Halloween weekend in Isla Vista (where I live) is in the midst :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 12:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ahem, me me me me me me me me me me!
spacey (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hank:
Would it be cool if your voice mattered where you worked? In Germany, 50% of corporate decisions come from the workers, 50% comes from the board of directors. There are also cooperative workplaces and worker-owned workplaces. Shouldn't these structures be more commonplace than corporate structures which are "shareholder primacy" motivated? Here's a link explaining what shareholder primacy is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharehol...
I don't agree with your [either capitalism OR socialism] logic. In general, either/or thinking is flawed because it assumes incorrectly that there are only 2 options or solutions, when, as human creativity and imagination and intelligence demonstrates, there are often a limitless number of options and solutions. We're all creative and intelligent. We should be working together for better solutions. Don't you agree?
You should get involved with OccupyIV! occupyiv.org -- i'm helping them organize as well. they're really smart and a fairly diverse crowd, much more than SB so far.
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Te message is quite clear, end the privatization of our government and restore Capitalism which has been destroyed by monopolistic and indeed traitorious organizations. This country was once great, with faults but great. Then along came the Reagan administration and the NeoCon/Lib fraud.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
P-cuddlecore raises a good point about NAFTA. Additionally, the only major party presidential candidate to touch this taboo issue is Ron Paul. (Dennis Kucinich also addressed it in 2008)
Ross Perot also talked about it as well with his iconic "giant sucking sound" comment.
I was told that this document has over 30,000 pages to it which means of course that the "devil is in the details" can apply here. NAFTA--according to a friend of mine who is a world traveler and connoisseur of international politics--wiped out the elido (sp?) program in Mexico which hurt the farming industry and drove a lot of people up here as a result.
Anyway, as long as people keep settling for mediocre shills put up by the two major parties this is what you are going to get.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ProffesorCC: "Would it be cool if your voice mattered where you worked?"
Good question & here's my answer: It is cool & my voice DOES matter in my place of employment.
Whether the issue is management, safety, environment, comfort, finance, etc. our voices are heard where I work & changes get implemented to accomodate said voices.
You obviously do not know me or my situation & that's perfectly alright, we just met here. Totally cool.
But w/ all due respect sir, to talk down @ me or anyone else for that matter ("Here's a link explaining what shareholder primacy is") like many of the leftie humanities profs I had to endure during my stint @ UCSB does not help your case w/ me.
By the way, my "flawed thinking" based on your assumption of my supposed assumption that "there are only 2 options or solutions" is indicative of that mentioned above.
I never once said there are only 2 solutions, that in itself would be damning for all of us.
But after seeing the supposed demands I can only stipulate that the "socialist" option is the option most sought by many of the "smart & fairly diverse" & this is what puts me off.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your endeavors as you seem to really believe in what you say. I commend you on that in every way imaginable.
I think we BOTH want to see changes made to the banking system, Wall Street speculators, the medical system, legal system, etc.
I hated the bailouts & corporate welfare just as much as ANYBODY else along w/ the importation of the American jobs to overseas locations. IT SUCKS!
But the question here is this: Everything said & done, based on human nature alone, won't it simply be a case of (to quote from The Who's "Won't get fooled again") "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?
The new boss offered "change" & the only change we've seen is none other than the continuous & increasing vanity of the federal government.
By the way, the new boss pretty much has the same inclinations as many of the occupy folks, politically, socially & otherwise.
Spacey: "ahem, me me me me me me me me me me!"
HAHAHA! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no clearing of the throat necessary :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 4:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So do the Occupiers vote or not?
John_Adams (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 9:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@John_Adams: If they vote for the status quo politicians (Democrats such as Obama) then they are hypocrits.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2011 at 9:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I see this as Obama's opportunity to redeem himself. The people are obviously speaking.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2011 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@billclausen I'm not registering as a Republican to vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primary, but he'd be my candidate of choice. I'm staying undeclared (there are no political parties in the constitution and they destroy democracy - can we stop supporting them please?)
SBGuy224 (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2011 at 9:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If this were Facebook I'd hit the "like" button for SBGUY's comment.
NAFTA, the War On Drugs, and being the World Policeman and the Patriot Act are four huge issues mainstream candidates avoid.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2011 at 1:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Professorcuddlecore-Are you really advocating for the German business model? Seriously? Have you ever worked directly with German corporations?
Part of what I do for a living mandates that I work directly with German imaging, surgical instrument, and large industrial corporations and they make our corporations look fabulous. They have zero transparency. Their end justifies their means(shocking considering the 3 Reichs...). They have virtually zero accountability.
Why the hell do Americans, when trying to substantiate their point of view, always point to the grass being greener is Western Europe? Their grass is different, not greener.
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2011 at 7:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
All these protestors voted for Obama, yet they're not protesting against him. It's absurd. Instead they blame "greedy" rich people. Too bad Hilary didn't win. She would have found a way to work with Congress like Bill did.
Lars (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2011 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lars I seriously doubt that all the protesters voted for Obama, unless you've taken a survey.
And secondly, we don't need another President who caves into the lunatic right so Hillary by your own description would've been worse. She did work for WalMart on their board you know.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2011 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
either-or thinking is 2-options only thinking.
for example,
"are you for the movement or against it?"
for and against are only 2 options. reality works more in ratios, spectrums, gradiants, percentages.
"i am 46% for it, but after i have breakfast i might be 53% for it. is that ok?"
"no, that does not sell news. i need something fiery and sensationalist. don't try to have civil discussions, or read news at positivenewsus.org, that would encourage the public to be solution-oriented and to pursue happiness and dispel fear."
does anyone here really think that there are these 2 solution options and no other ways of thinking?
liberal vs conservative
^^^
so dumb.
i believe that communities should come together with potlucks, block parties, public forums, serious discussions, and come to agreements and to voice their strong emotions of anger, hate, despair, fear, when serious issues happen.
"those libs are _______ (bad bad bad)"
"those wingnuts only want to ________ (bad bad bad)"
do any of you reading really enjoy thinking like this?
what about this.... friend-making vs. enemy-confirming? that's a nice either-or... in my personal, non-objective opinion.
professorcuddlecore (anonymous profile)
October 31, 2011 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"She’d just been walking down State Street to get her baby to sleep when she joined the march and started chanting, hoping to set a good example for her son by speaking up against injustice."
Great! The making of another mind-numbed lefty! Just what we need more of!
waz (anonymous profile)
October 31, 2011 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I prefer a mind-numbed Lefty over a bitter Righty or Lefty.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
November 1, 2011 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
They are equally dangerous Ken. Just look at what happened in the French Revolution.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
November 1, 2011 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
" an unemployed veterinarian"?
Really?
I wasn't aware that unemployment was a problem with veterinarians. All that I know make a pretty good living.
I recently had to pay $987 for treatment for my dog.
schmuc281 (anonymous profile)
November 1, 2011 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"professorcuddlecore, you went overboard, I can't read all of that. I got bored and overwhelmed very quickly."
- santabarbarasand
That's what they do; overwhelm you with a lot of BS that contains links to more BS, until finally you just get tired and bored of reading the endless lefty rantings, and give up on it. That way, they can claim that you're not well informed enough to know exactly how stupid this "movement" really is. I'd bet that it's in Alinsky's playbook.
"I prefer a mind-numbed Lefty over a bitter Righty or Lefty."
- Ken_Volok
I know you do. That's just one of many problems plaguing this jerky "movement".
waz (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2011 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I like Germany's setup: 50percent of votes comes from a board of directors, 50percent comes from workers. In our system, 100percent of votes comes from the board of directors, and with shareholder primacy written into the corporate code, profit often holds primacy over people and ecology."
- professorcuddlecore
Why would anyone want to start a business just to hand half of the decision making over to their employees? Employees are there to make decisions regarding the performance of their job tasks, not to make decisions regarding the direction of the company. If the employees know how to do it better, then they should go out and start their own company. And, yes. Making a profit is the primary motivation for starting a business. Who ever put the idea in your head that businesses are started to create jobs and take care of people? You got it backwards. Businesses are started with the goal of being profitable. When they are profitable, they can grow. When they grow, they hire more employees. If someone wants to make the same amount as the boss, become a boss. Don't just sit around griping that the boss make more money than you. The problem with you lefties is that you think that capitalism is a zero sum game; in order for someone to make money, someone else has to lose money. You think wealth isn't created, but transferred. That's just one of a port-a-potty full of lefty lies.
waz (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2011 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Waz, simple economics will tell you that you can't just pint more money- you can't just "create wealth". There has to be a finite amount of dollars or else every dollar is worth nothing. Therefore you can see how wealth is transferred. No one is griping about the boss making more money, they're griping about the "boss" picking their pockets.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2011 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Gosh KV, we agree again: "There has to be a finite amount of dollars or else every dollar is worth nothing." Albeit not exactly correct or we would run out of money simply by increasing population and we are no longer on the Gold Standard, but it's nice to know that printing money for, say a massive bail out to pull something out of thin air, simply devalues our legitimate currency even more. And BOTH Bush and Obama are accountable for this illogical solution.
italiansurg (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2011 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's lyrics from a song by The Jam called "Man in the corner shop" from back in 1981 or so:
Puts up the closed sign does the man in the corner shop
Serves his last then he says goodbye to him
He knows it is a hard life
But its nice to be your own boss really
Walks off home does the last customer
He is jealous of the man in the corner shop
He is sick of working at the factory
Says it must be nice to be your own boss (really)
Sells cigars to the boss from the factory
He is jealous is the man in the corner shop
He is sick of struggling so hard
Says it must be nice to own a factory
Go to church do the people from the area
All shapes and classes sit and pray together
For here they are all one
For God created all men equal.
The last verse doesn't really matter here much, but the 1st 3 verses are indicative of the "politics of envy" my mom always lectured me about. Catchy little tune :) henry
hank (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2011 at 5:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Waz, simple economics will tell you that you can't just pint more money- you can't just "create wealth"."
- Ken_Volok
Wrong again, Kenny! Wealth can be created because economies can grow (unless the government keeps interfering with the private sector). Are you honestly going to tell me that if somewhere in the US, someone starts a company, is successful, and hires employees, that company is somehow siphoning off everyone else? That company isn't paying truckers, cleaning crews, maintenance workers, security officers, property managers, insurers, lawyers, advertisers, caterers, etc., on top of its regular employees? That company isn't paying local, state and federal quarterlies? That company isn't paying every single ill-conceived fee that the government can possibly think of? When a company is successful, money is distributed that otherwise would not be. That's "simple economics".
waz (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2011 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I almost forgot! I'd like to give kudos to the "Occupy Whatever" morons in Oakland! Thanks for setting fires, breaking windows and spray painting the walls! I hope you keep up these stupid protests, because the longer you do, the more your true colors come shining through. I'll do you all a favor and not even mention the rampant drug use and sexual assaults. Whoops! Did I say that out loud?!
waz (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2011 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)