Don’t bother telling retired Orange County judge James Gray how being vice president isn’t “worth a bucket of warm spit,” a description made famous by a disgruntled former occupant of that office. Gray, best known as the judge who publicly denounced the “war on drugs” as a futile waste of money and human life, is now running for the Number Two spot on the Libertarian ticket and was in town last Friday to press the flesh and raise money.
As a third party candidate, Gray readily acknowledges his is an uphill fight. But Gray — a respected, if outspoken, jurist with more than 25 years on the bench — is running with Gary Johnson, a two-term New Mexico governor, giving the Libertarians undeniable heft when it comes to actual experience. “We’re not out there just to raise issues or score moral victories,” Gray insisted. “We’re out to win.” If 15 percent of Americans who get polled declare they’re voting Libertarian, Gray said he and Johnson will qualify for the nationally televised presidential — and vice presidential — debates. If and when that happens, he predicted, it’s curtains for Mitt Romney and Barack Obama.
“The country craves what we’re talking about,” he declared. “We’re fiscally restrained but socially tolerant.” If that big disaffected middle weren’t enough, Gray added, the Libertarian ticket should also appeal to those fed up with business as usual, Tea Party conservatives and Occupy This progressives. The major fly in Gray’s ointment, however, is that most pollsters don’t ever ask respondents about Libertarians, frequently dismissed as the quirky fringe party where idealists and ideologues from the far left and hard right find common ground. That’s why it’s essential, he said, for anyone called by pollsters to volunteer their Libertarian inclinations.
Like many Libertarians, Gray seems to embody the conflicting yin and yang of American politics. In the 1960s, Gray — an earnest man with pale blue eyes and an unmistakable whiff of mission — volunteered for the Peace Corps after graduating from UCLA. After serving two years in Costa Rica, he entered USC law school, but joined the navy in 1968 when it was clear he’d be drafted. Stationed in Guam, he served as a JAG (Judge Advocate General) officer. Even during the height of countercultural heydays, Gray remained a button-down guy. He insists he never smoked pot, preferring a shot of bourbon and glass of wine. He then became a federal prosecutor, distinguishing himself in 1978 by prosecuting what then was the biggest dope bust ever — 75 kilos of heroin. A card-carrying Republican, Gray worked to get George Deukmejian elected state governor, and Deukmejian returned the favor by appointing Gray — the son of a federal judge — to the bench in 1983.
Presiding over a criminal caseload, Gray said he didn’t give much thought to all the drug cases that came before him. “Heroin meant bad, evil, jail,” he said. “It was pretty simple.” His epiphany came in 1992, after sentencing a man who’d beaten and raped a woman to what was effectively one-and-a-half weeks behind bars. “The tougher we got on nonviolent drug offenders, the softer we became on violent offenders,” he explained. There just wasn’t enough space in jail to lock everyone up, he said, nor was there money to pay for their incarceration.
Gray is hardly the only judge to arrive at this conclusion. He is, however, one of the very few to hold a press conference — as he did on April 8, 1992 — to declare that the war on drugs was a total bust. “Addiction is very hard,” he declared. “But conviction is much harder to overcome.” But by taking profit out of the equation, government can reduce the violence associated with much drug use. Countries like Portugal, Switzerland, and Holland have treated addiction medically rather than criminally, he noted, and their crime rates have dropped as have their rates of addiction. As a Libertarian, Gray said he thinks individual states should decide what course to chart where it comes to drugs.
And as a Libertarian, Gray argues the IRS should be abolished outright and the income tax be replaced with a user — or sales — tax. This, he said, would create jobs, eliminate the livelihood for 60 percent of all lobbyists — whose main function, he charged, is securing tax breaks — and reduce the incentive for much government corruption. Social security would be privatized, immigrants given work visas so long as they follow existing laws, affirmative action ended, and schools vouchers be offered so that parents could select which schools their kids attended.
Gray and Johnson also advocate withdrawal from Afghanistan, the abolition of the PATRIOT Act, and the repeal of the Defense Authorization Act, which allows U.S. nationals suspected of terrorism to be detained and held indefinitely without charges or trial on U.S. soil. “I think it’s better for the American government to be afraid of its citizens than the other way around.” To those who suggest the PATRIOT Act hasn’t led to widespread abuse, he asks, “How would we know?” But perhaps the biggest issue, Gray said, is the mounting national debt. “For every dollar the government spends, 43 cents are borrowed,” he said. “Four more years of that and we’re Greece.”
Gray knows he and Johnson won’t be able to compete with campaign contributions. About 40 people attended the fundraiser held Friday night at the house of Dr. David Bearman, a well-known medical marijuana advocate, and maybe $2,000 raised. Speaking on his mainstream better-known opponents — Romney and Obama — Gray said, “If I was them, I’d be afraid of us, too. We have something they don’t — sincerity.”



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I like the idea of 3rd or additional party candidates. But the reality is we have a two party system and in tight elections you're just wasting your vote.
So we have the regressive republicon party with a platform that always puts the U.S.A. in reverse with backwards social ideas and wars, barriers, economic disaster, religious purity and economic austerity for the 98% and prosperity for the 2%.
Then we have the more progressive democratic party that can be a bit stodgy and sometimes regressive but can with deliberative involvement be moved to be much more inclusive and less rigid in thought allowing for a more diverse and prosperous nation as a whole.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 6:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I've always been a libertarian, but the Libertarian party just didn't have enough credibility. No longer true, perhaps. If enough of us waste our vote, things might actually change.
JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Locke - you beat me to the punch. If everyone thinks that voting Liberatarian is a wasted vote, things will never change. I voted against my heart once and I'll never do it again.
diego (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Change to what?
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I like the idea of 3rd or additional party candidates." Don, since when have you liked anyone with views that aren't consistent with your own?
Botany (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I really think on the national level the Dems and Repubs need to be replaced, both have become way too establishment. I don't want my elected leaders at each others' throats, but in bed with the same lobbyists is not acceptable either. I often think both let problems linger and fester so they have issues to campaign on instead of actually solving anything. On one hand we need Congress to occasional compromise, but when they do it rarely seems to be in the nation's long term interest!
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The checks and balances that Our Forefathers built into the Constitution have become unbalanced and need to be calibrated with new ideas and parties. We the People must be the one to do it, since it is obvious that there are not too many people in Washington who are doing our bidding but the bidding of a few unethical people and entities. Tyranny was one thing that they wanted to prevent, yet more and more that is what it is happening in this country.
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
First of all, lots of good comments but Diego's sentiments reflect mine exactly. Welcome to the Indy blog.
@DonMcDermott: While this is going to be nothing more than the age-old difference of opinion, I have to disagree with you that the Democrats are a simply "a bit stodgy".
The Democrats, like the Republicans, (with perhaps the occasional maverick in each party such as Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul) are for the most part in favor of the National Defense Authorization Act, The Patriot Act, The War on Drugs, are opposed to the Gold Standard, and support endless intervention and foreign aid. When Mubarak was thrown out of power in Egypt, I heard as a sideline note that the U.S. had given Egypt $1.3 billion the previous year. This is just one country out of...how many on the planet?
California, a heavily Democratic Party state, is hemmoraging businesses and they are packing their bags and moving out of state because the hoops they have to jump through in order to survive are impossible. Ever notice how businesses last a while in Santa Barbara (another heavily Democrat enclave) and then disappear? Let's talk about how the Capital Gains tax (another idea of the Democratic Party) has affected people selling their homes. My parents were practically wiped out when they sold their home because of this. Meanwhile, the schools are still under funded but somehow the idea of a $100,000,000 high-speed rail system for California remains.
The problem is bit by bit we are like the proverbial "frog in the frying pan" where the temperature is turned up so slowly that the frog simply passes out and dies before it gets cooked.
The "Nixon Shock" of 1971 made fiat currency the new standard but nobody talks about that. (Lest I be accused of attacking Democrats per se)
On the issue of religion I will address *both* sides of the issue: "Faith-based initiatives" (started up by G.W. Bush) are an intrusion onto the church-state issue by using tax dollars for government-mandated expenditures. Likewise, government-ordered mandates forcing churches that oppose birth control to fund contraception is also crossing that line. The operative concept is *government-mandated". Libertarians on the other hand, believe that the government has no business using peoples' money to support religious organizations, nor force government views onto such an organization, with the obvious caveat that a religious group cannot for example, let a child die because the parents don't believe in blood transfusions.
The tricky part is of course is that there are those who fall between the cracks and need help, so in that sense I'm not a libertarian with a "capital 'L' " as the saying goes. Having said all this, until there is a recognition that the scope and size of government has gone way beyond any altruistic line, I will have to abstain from supporting the Republicrat duopoly.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 7:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
P.S. @James Gray: Good to see your name in the news again. I saw you at Max's restaurant when you spoke with Badnarik back c.2004.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 11, 2012 at 7:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't know billclausen why you would blame Carifornias or worldwide economic demise and our civil liberties transgressions on Democratic leadership. Democratic leadership is pliable and evolving. Clearly the transgressions were and are a republicon push and those wanting the U.S.A., shaking in post-9/11 boots, to follow along like sheeple tend to.
The electorate isn't pushing hard enough to elevate a 3rd party candidate to a win. There is no appeal. The best we can do in the context of our two-party system is to work with the party that is the most electable and progressive party. The Democratic Party platform is the most agreeable.
I guess no political parties at all would be ideal. But we're not like that. Again voting for a third party candidate at this point would be like a child-like stomping of the feet in protest.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Bill - FYI, assuming your parents lived in their house at least 2 of the last 5 years and made less than $500,000 on the sale($250,000 for an individual), there should have been no capital gains implications. The first $500k profit on a primary residence is tax free. If they actuall paid taxes on the sale, they may want to go see a good CPA.
And Don - equating me to a child stomping my feet in protest because I'm voting for who I think would do the best job... ouch. Not cool.
diego (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Diego - Don thinks that everyone votes (or should vote) based on whether they benefit economically by voting that way, not based on principle.
Botany (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I don't know billclausen why you would blame Carifornias or worldwide economic demise and our civil liberties transgressions on Democratic leadership."
Which party is the predominant political party in California? Why are so many businesses leaving the state?
"Clearly the transgressions were and are a republicon push and those wanting the U.S.A., shaking in post-9/11 boots, to follow along like sheeple tend to."
The senate vote on the Patriot Act was 98-1, with only Russ Feingold having the guts to oppose it. (I forget who the woman was who didn't participate in the vote) Feinstein, Boxer, (Hilary) Clinton...Capps....
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Libertarians follow the Austrian School of Economics.
Republicans and Democrats follow John Maynard Keynes Euro-Trash School of Fiat Money, enough said, Keynes and his followers have Bankrupted the World.
When Richard M. Nixon took us off the Gold Standard and William Jefferson Clinton's Secretary of the Treasury, Robert Ruben, killed off Glass-Stegal. The writing was on the wall.
Welcome to Fantasy Land, anyone notice San Bernardino went BK, more coming I am sure.
Dennis Kucinich is the only Progressive with street creds, the rest are hacks.
R or D, same same, time for a Jeffersonian Renaissance.
howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So where is the big movement to kick the bums out occurring?
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"So where is the big movement to kick the bums out occurring?"
It doesn't exist, but it starts with each and every one of us and depends on who we actually vote for, not just identifying the problem.
Incidentally, the movement can either be a third party, or reforms within the existing parties, but its up to us to force the action through our vote.
Remember, these people are supposed to be public servants, not the petty tyrants they think they are entitled to be.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"anyone notice San Bernardino went BK, more coming I am sure."
It already has happened: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07...
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hi Bill,
San Berdo was after Stockton. I note that the San Berdo City Council was given 13 out of 16 years, a Financial Statement in the Black, it was all FRAUD. The Muni-Bond buyers are going to be very reluctant to lend, people need to be in Jail, Government Employment, should not be a get-out-of-jail card.
Another case for small government, way too much OPM floating around.
Don,
Its like this, People have to get their Fiscal House in Order, many young people are starting to hear the Libertarian message, they are the ones that have been robbed and will wind up paying for all this, its a movement, like Alice's Restaurant, back to the 60's, question Authority, don't trust the Government, Government it is not your friend.
It will take time, more Government Bankruptcy will help it along, a new normal has to be understood. Keynes is a Failure.
A Government constrained by a Gold Standard, it is easier to control the Politician, the Politician needs to be controlled.
You don't hear a R or D wanting to end the War on Drugs because they both manipulate it for their own purposes. Think of a World with de-funded Gangs.
howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
July 12, 2012 at 7:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Likewise, government-ordered mandates forcing churches that oppose birth control to fund contraception is also crossing that line."
-- billclausen
Too bad your assertion is not factual. The ACA does NOT force churches to fund contraception. Your views would be more credible if they did not violate reality.
SezMe (anonymous profile)
July 13, 2012 at 1:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I saw you at Max's restaurant when you spoke with Badnarik back c.2004."
-- billclausen
I think Gray is absolutely spot on with his drug position. Some of his other positions are also admirable. That said, his association with the Libertarian Party really does him great harm. As an example, no sane person would be seen within 100 miles of Badnarik. He is an absolute loon. His association with Badnarik calls into question his political judgment.
I like Gray. I've had a long dinner conversation with him. He's doing his own cause harm by running as a Libertarian.
SezMe (anonymous profile)
July 13, 2012 at 1:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Libertarians follow the Austrian School of Economics."
-- howgreenwasmyvalley
Precisely. Which is why they are widely viewed as lunatics.
SezMe (anonymous profile)
July 13, 2012 at 1:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SezMe: My understanding is that there is a movement to force Catholic-owned businesses to provide contraception. If this is not true, the news lied to me.
Second point: I found Badnarik to be arrogant, and his aggressive demands for more money almost caused me to walk out of that meeting. A very unlikeable person indeed.
Gray on the other hand, was a perfect gentleman.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 13, 2012 at 3:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SezMe,
So how is Economic Expansion based on Funny Money Credit Expansion working out for You. Lets see, Housing Collapse, Higher Education Collapse, one Trillion in Student Loan Debt that will never be paid back, Unsustainable Labor Contacts with government employees - who is the Lunatic?
The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I will give you another Economic enlightenment. City of Santa Barbara has failed to fund a pay as you go RESERVE for the replacement of the Underground Utilities. Channel Keeper sues, rightfully so and all the utility rates are increased.
Sound economic principals dictate that the City should have a RESERVE FUND with money in hand but they don't.
Sewer Pipes have lets say an economic useful life of 100 years, you Bank the 1/100 of the needed RESERVE each year so the money is on hand for replacement when needed. The Model of never having RESERVES and just raising rates is LUNACY.
Multiply that by all the localities and you have a TOTAL COLLAPSE of the National Infrastructure. The Ocean is poisoned on both coasts because of this LUNACY.
Printing Presses and ZIRP will not lead to Prosperity. Destruction of Capital does not lead to Prosperity. True Savings and Sound Fiscal Principles does lead to Prosperity.
howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
July 13, 2012 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." -howgreenwasmyvalley -
Amen--which is why I refuse to go along with the status quo.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 14, 2012 at 2:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So we don't have a big movement for these alternative candidates at this time. The best we can do is to never, ever allow neo conservatives Bush/Cheney/Rove back in power. Right now the only party that is moving Forward is the Democratic Party. So who are you going to vote for?
billclausen wants to relive the birth control issue over and over again and that is that problem with small i independents; they're only independent for themselves or those in control or as in the billclausen example Catholic-owned businesses or hospitals. This is a very narrow orthodoxy. Most Catholics want access to birth control. It is the minority leadership that would deny contraception. And republicon leadership uses this as one of those divisive wedge issues.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 14, 2012 at 6:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Most Catholics want access to birth control, the Vatican wants access to the birth canal.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
July 14, 2012 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No Don, I'm reliving birth control "over and over" again, I just feel government and religion don't mix.
For what it's worth, I'm not Catholic, and I'm pro-birth control, but if they (the catholic establishment) don't believe in it, they shouldn't be forced to provide contraception, and as I stated earlier, what I was hearing in the news was that *establishment* catholic businesses were slated to be forced to do this. It is a fact that Matthew Harrison--who is the president of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, did the unthinkable and reached across theological lines to support the catholics on this. Again, maybe it was a widespread misreported news story, but I too covered that previously.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 14, 2012 at 1:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
P.S. I'm still not planning to vote for Obama or Romney, I'd say that makes me slight more than a "small 'i' " independent.
How are you planning to vote in the presidential election?
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 14, 2012 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm preparing to vote with my nose pinched and eyes closed.
Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
July 14, 2012 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I'm preparing to vote with my nose pinched and eyes closed.",
Ken_Volk
Is it not so sad that that is what most people will have to do.
I tend to like what Penn Jillette, of Penn and Teller says,
"Money to the Right, Sex to the Left"
I have a Dream, that Government will be fiscally sound, they will sign on to Davis-Sterling as a Municipal Model for sound Management and start accounting/disclosing all their unfunded liabilities, list all their depreciable assets and start a RESERVE FUND for each and layout a plan for 100% funding of those Reserves.
I have a Dream, that Government will stop living off the constant raising of taxes and fees but actually have available funds to improve sewer, water and water collection, recharge, systems.
I have a Dream, that Government will understand the Law of Diminishing Returns.
I have a Dream, that Government will actually improve the ENVIRONMENT, instead of just giving it lip service.
Sound Fiscal Policy is directly associated a Sound Environment.
Playing the Keynesian Game of paying off Debt with a debased and cheaper and cheaper Dollars is anyone, anyone, insane.
howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
July 15, 2012 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Gold standard...gold standard...
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 15, 2012 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There is no real intrinsic value to anything unless we assign a value. So we could assign to toilet paper the value Independents would want to assign to gold. And where is all this gold going to come from. Or is the point to stop the economy once we've exhausted the worlds gold resources. Do we use military or corporations to invade, mine and pillage like we do for other resources.
"Money to the right," "debasing and cheaper dollars?"<<< Short memory? Dreaming too much? Assigning nightmares to Keneysian Economics rather than to Austrian, Disaster Capitalism or whatever economics used by the 'right' Bush/Cheney team. Isn't that what no one should ever be dreaming about ever again.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 15, 2012 at 10:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again a failure in understanding economic theory. The value of gold is not "assigned", it's dictated by supply and demand. When people are insecure about the value of one currency, the value of that currency drops and the value of other currencies go up. In the case of gold, it is a currency too. The value of gold has risen so substantially, not because it was "assigned", it went up because people felt insecure about holding assets based in MANY currencies, leaving gold as the most reliable currency. When people feel comfortable about investing in assets based in other currencies again, the value of gold will drop.
Botany (anonymous profile)
July 15, 2012 at 11:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Question: (And I really don't know the answer to this) I hear (admittedly from Righto-wing media sources) that they are printing up money not to replaced destroyed money, but to add currency. Can anyone verify this? If this is true, than no wonder the dollar is sinking.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 16, 2012 at 5:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Botany; humans are intrinsically superstitious. The newly revealed LIBOR manipulations are just another indication of how are economy is manufactured b.s. The value of gold has skyrocketed because of fear along with the value humans have assigned to gold. It is antiquated. When you're dead it is just another metal that humans have labeled "precious."
billclausen; Whatever comes out of the could righto-wing echo chamber is divisive fear-mongering. Alternative lesser hyperbolic views are available on the LCD and on the internet.
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 16, 2012 at 6:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The value of something is always based on the circumstances. What's the value of jug of water to a man dying of thirst in the desert? What's the value of a gun in a knife fight? What's the value of a stable currency when the value of most other currencies are being debased? It's not superstition, it's a desire to keep what you already have.
Botany (anonymous profile)
July 16, 2012 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Gold is on a 2,000 year old bubble. Heard that one a few months ago and couldn't agree more. There's nothing inherently valuable about gold.
diego (anonymous profile)
July 16, 2012 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And what's the inherent value of a paper dollar? Why should it be worth more than a sheet of toilet paper?
Botany (anonymous profile)
July 16, 2012 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Back to my question: Are they printing money simply to add a greater amount of it to the system?
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 16, 2012 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's what you need to know. The Federal Reserve is not the problem. Unions are not the problem. Teachers are not the problem. Firefighters are not the problem. Police are not the problem. Gays are not the problem. Obamacare is not the problem. TARP is not the problem (once under the Obama Administrations' Control) Liberals and Progressives are not the problem.
The problem is far-right faith-based or incompetent conservatives using their own twisted brands of economics. The problem is Trickle Down Capitalism, Crony Capitalism, Disaster Capitalism, Laissez Faire Capitalism, and wishy washy independents easily spooked by far right wing media.
billclausen; here is a link to get you out of your bubble http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/mo...
DonMcDermott (anonymous profile)
July 16, 2012 at 9:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The...
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 17, 2012 at 1:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Don: "U.S. currency has expanded at only a moderate pace in recent years"
(From the link you provided)
But nonetheless, it's increasing according to this.
billclausen (anonymous profile)
July 17, 2012 at 2 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As usual, Don brings up his irrelevant and irrational hatred of conservatives when the facts aren't on his side.
Botany (anonymous profile)
July 17, 2012 at 5:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Nothing valuable about gold? Have you thought of the industrial applications?
AZ2SB (anonymous profile)
July 17, 2012 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)