Governor Jerry Brown sends his dog Sutter to the Santa Barbara Democratic campaign offices for a Proposition 30 press conference. (Nov. 1, 2012)

Paul Wellman

Governor Jerry Brown sends his dog Sutter to the Santa Barbara Democratic campaign offices for a Proposition 30 press conference. (Nov. 1, 2012)

Prop. 30 Campaign Goes to the Dogs

Governor Jerry Brown’s Corgi Visits Santa Barbara

Friday, November 2, 2012
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Governor Jerry Brown’s 9-year-old Pembroke Welsh corgi, Sutter, visited Santa Barbara on Thursday to encourage Democratic volunteers making phone calls on behalf of Prop. 30, a revenue measure that would increase the state sales taxes by a quarter percent and raise income taxes on those earning over $250,000.

An October 25 USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times poll shows that only 46 percent of registered voters support the proposition. State Senate candidate Hannah-Beth Jackson, who took her turn posing with the First Pooch, said that the demographics of voters registering online in the past few weeks favor Prop. 30.

The current budget calls for $6 billion in cuts, mostly to education, if the measure does not pass. City College Board President Peter Haslund, also in attendance Thursday, pointed out that community college tuition has increased 70 percent in three years. “It’s not fair,” he said of the burden on young people.

Sutter — adopted by Brown from his sister Kathleen when she moved to Chicago — is in the midst of a 30-city tour stumping for his owner’s political gambit.


Independent Discussion Guidelines

Prop 30 is a cover-up for the fact the powerful California teachers unions have blocked getting federal education improvement dollars.

Why, you ask? Because the California teacher union lobby refuses to participate in the necessary teacher performance reforms to get this money.

Instead, they beg California voters to block these reforms and keep spending more state tax money maintaining the status quo of our state's failing education system.

A vote NO on Prop 30 sends a message to the California teachers union lobby to clean up it act and put students first, instead of their own pocketbooks. Woof.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Strong schools, especially the University of California, are what made this state a hub of innovation. Prop 30 supports the UC and State Universities and community colleges, and will cost you ONE QUARTER for every hundred dollars you spend (unless your household makes over $350,000 a year, then you'll have some additional tax). ALMOST NOTHING.

This is a TINY increase, with an ENORMOUS downside if it fails. If Prop 30 is not passed, UC alone will lose over $350 million in funding, and this is after facing deep cuts for years. The UC is already pared to the bone, with students facing huge tuition increases. Our schools are what made our state great, and over and over education has been shown to be the best investment we can make in terms of keeping crime rates down and the quality of life up.

Prop 30 is a foolish place to decide to "send a message to the union." A no vote will hurt us all, especially in a city with a UC, a community college, and lots of families. Your neighbors are teachers, school staff, and tuition-paying parents and students. If Prop 30 fails, it's a very bad day for the future of Santa Barbara.

SBthinksso (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Keep in mind the education industry is alive and well in Santa Barbara (K-12,UC/SBCC) and their unions have also taken over the local Democratic Party. So you will hear its strident voices doing exactly what one expects from those benefiting from this tax-dollar sucking machine.

You have heard them before: there is never enough money to satisfy them. There is no reform they won't reject. Their praise for Prop 30 is not the public speaking; it is the public unions speaking. You can tell them no. You should tell them no. You need to tell them no.

Prop 30 is exactly the right initiative at the right time to reject and tell these state politicians owned now by the powerful education lobby to shape up, because they like everyone else has to live within their means.

Prop 98 is already sending 50% of all state tax revenues directly off the top to schools. If that isn't enough, what amount ever will be?

Also tell the California teachers unions to back reforms so they can qualify for the federal dollars that California is uniquely missing out on ... for one reason only - teachers unions rejection of reforms.

Why do California teachers complain they rank low on funding per student? Because their own militant failure to reform has intentionally cut off federal education funding that the other states receive.

Das Williams, the education lobby darling, couldn't even vote to remove that pornographic teacher out of an elementary school. So don't look much further than your own vote to see why California schools are doing do poorly. (His opponent Dan Walters takes no education lobby money.)

It IS your vote right here and right now that will send state politicians an entirely new message. We are done with demands for more money and we demand reforms now to get this state back on track.

Why did we let this happen to ourselves? Here is your golden opportunity to turn things around. No on Prop 30 - Yes on Prop 32

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oblati-Disagree! Try having a job where you get a pink slip every year and don't know if you are going to have a job after summer? I totally back the teachers union. My kids teacher is one of my and my kids hero's. They do a great job and are under compensated and treated like crap. Vote yes on 30 and HELL NO on 32. Happy Friday. :)

bimboteskie (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The unions are the ones who require pink slips go out early in the year, before the state budgets are even set. Creates a lot of hysteria doesn't it? Because often those very same teachers are hired back once the state budget it set several months. But this early pink-slip requirement allows the unions to milk one more round of teacher victimhood.

Taxpayers are no longer so easy to hoodwink. Even teachers unions can't squeeze blood out of a turnip, and union friendly school boards simply can no longer over-promise benefits they cannot deliver.

So support your unions all you want, but when the till is dry unions cannot print money. And the kids suffer in all the ensuing acrimony and turmoil.

Standard union pitch, just so you recognize it when you see it: we are over-worked, under-paid and under-appreciated.

Your take bimbo, is a bit saltier but you got the brainwashing lingo down exactly right. Did your kids bring home that message with their homework papers?

Slavery was outlawed long ago. No one is forcing unhappy teachers to stay in these terrible jobs.

Plenty of unemployed college grads would be very happy to take on these positions while these "over-worked, underpaid, and under-appreciated" teachers take their skills somewhere else, that pays them twice as much.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Teachers union lobby is very strong in this town. Recognize their arguments:

1. We are over-worked, under-paid and under appreciated.
2. Our morale is bad.
3. You can buy our morale with more money.
4. Schools have too many high-priced administrators, even though our own union-demands strangle education with volumes of regulations that have to be strictly enforced ..... by administrators.
5. Teaching 180 days a year is the most demanding work on the planet.
6. Teachers can make twice and much in the outside economy.
7. What ever you pay us, it is not enough because we will be back next year with exactly the same complaints and demands.
8. Fully paid health insurance and retirement premium increases are not "raises", they are entitlements.
9. COLA increases are our annual right, even when there has been no cost of living increased as set by objective federal standards.
10. Your kids will suffer if we do not get our way.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I haven't been spoon fed crap! (pardon the expression) I have volunteered and spent the time in my kids class. I seriously doubt a college kid has the mental/kid knowledge to control/grow a set of kids off the bat. It takes more than book smarts to jump into a class and teach and also control, but even more so, to keep them interested and motivated. You can spout your conservative hate about unions if you want, but I say GO TEACHERS UNION. Who else is looking out for them? They just get told by the anti union side, you have it too easy and you aren't teaching good enough, while a lot of the problems actually start at home with crappy parents. Sure there are bad apples in any barrel, but the ones I have seen in this town are good.

bimboteskie (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YES on 30.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's an obvious YES on 30 despite the lengthy, defensive, ultra-libertarian ravings above this post. Our children desperately need this money!!!!! The Assembly & Senate cannot touch it. Only fools refuse to pay to educate the young well.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is easy to say no to education today, because education today in California means only the teachers unions who have ruined it for everyone.

Too bad the kids won't see a dime of Prop 30 money. It all goes to pay off the massive state deficits and teachers union health insurance benefits and under-funded retirement premiums.

How exactly was it going to benefit the students "in the classroom" other than making the teacher a little less bitchy for a few days?

Union buzzwords: "spend money in the classroom" means spend more money on the teacher in the classroom - for whom all the money in the world will never be enough for their unions.

If teachers want to see an immediate increase in their take-home pay stop skimming a thousand bucks a year that gets sent directly to the teacher union bosses.

Dedicate that same money to the SB Education Foundation in lieu of being forces to pay the union bosses, if you want to see at least part of it end up "in the classroom".

Teachers unions have driven a wedge between students, parents, taxpayers and the entire school system in California. Greed is their only motivation.

Unions have become their own worst enemy when it comes to publicly funded education, because the unions have finally taken one bite too many. Plenty are lined up to take those jobs so don't get stupid.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ahh, relax Oblati, you're just repeating yourself, you hate unions, you refuse to vote to help children learn, keep your head in the sand, it's pretty amusing...see how much you wrote above!! ha
Yes on 30.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you for reading what I write.

Unions are okay if they stay where they belong; on one side of the bargaining table only.

Problems in California went off the cliff when they figured it was easier to buy both sides of the bargaining table electing state legislators like Taxin' Jackson and Das Williams to get union employee-friendly legislation passed at the state level, rather than bargain for it locally.

Then with the massive infusion of cash going directly to the unions and mandated union shop membership, the unions were next poised to take over every local board or council they could get their planted candidate on.

This was called our "progressive" era and now we wake up to find they robbed us blind, we are stuck with the bills and those who did the damage danced off after their term limits ended to leave the rest of us to now face the bills come due.

Yes, that is reason enough to hate unions. But that is too simple of an answer. They were smart and they were strategic while we slept. Yes, I do hate what they did but they did everything legally so what it there to hate?

It was the voters who let this happen. "Hating unions" does nothing to repair this damage. Waking up voters to the damage unions did while we slept is job one. That is the message that cannot be repeated often enough.

No reason for people to vote to tax themselves even more than they already are because now it all goes to feed those unions promises made while we slept. Waking up to this damage and saying NO to any more taxes and more damage is what will stop this train wreck.

Just vote No on 30 and yes on 32 to get things started again in the right direction. No, schools will not be hurt. They continue to get 50% of all state tax revenues. That is plenty for all kids in this state to get a good education.

Teachers unions now are the main road block to the necessary reforms that prevent this from happening. Yes, that is reason to hate unions. They should be on our side instead of working against us. One more reason to hate what unions have become today.

But hating does not get us out of this. Vote no on Prop 30 and Yes on Prop 32 - send a new message for unions to work better with us and not against us.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 7:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are a number of factual errors in what you've been posting, Oblati:

- - - > Prop 98 doesn't funnel 50% of the California budget into Education; it varies from year to year in a complex formula meant to reflect the economic ups and downs of our economy. According to the Legislative Analyst's Office, 45% is a more accurate average number:

* * * *

- - - > in many different ways, you seem to believe educational funding has been rising in California. Not so:
"Total expenditures (excluding capital outlay projects) dropped by $3.3 billion between 2007–08 and 2010–11, which equates to a statewide average reduction of $565, or 4.7 percent, per pupil."

* * * *

- - - > The scurrilous statement that "Das Williams, the education lobby darling, couldn't even vote to remove that pornographic teacher out of an elementary school"
is a flat out lie.

Williams, and 4 other Ed committee members, did not vote on a motion to send SB-1530 (School employees: dismissal, suspension, and leave of absence procedures) to the Appropriations committee (vote was 4-2-5). The bill was unanimously set for a future hearing and reconsideration in a separate vote.

As current law permits school boards to immediately suspend and begin termination procedures for immoral and unprofessional behavior by teachers, it is reasonable to question the necessity of this Bill.

* * * *

- - - > As has been pointed out, teacher's pensions will be paid whether Prop 30 passes or not. No amount of "message sending" (sounds like an episode of "Arrested Development") by defeating Prop 30 will change that, and the issue of pension reform and your beloved Union Busting must be dealt with in separate negotiations and legislation.

* * * *

- - - > "Too bad the kids won't see a dime of Prop 30 money. It all goes to pay off the massive state deficits..."

Not according to the way the law is written:
From the text of the Proposition, page 80:

"...(h) To ensure these funds go where the voters intend, they are put in special accounts that the Legislature cannot touch. None of these new revenues can be spent on state bureaucracy or administrative costs.

:: (i) These funds will be subject to an independent audit every year to ensure they are spent only for schools and public safety. Elected officials will be subject to prosecution and criminal penalties if they misuse the funds."

[page 82]
:: "(e) (1) To ensure that public education is not harmed in the process of providing critical protection to local Public Safety Services, the Education Protection Account is hereby created in the General Fund to receive and disburse the revenues derived from the incremental increases in taxes imposed by this section, as specified in subdivision (f)."

binky (anonymous profile)
November 2, 2012 at 10:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Best Hope to Fix California Education: teacher faculty never-say-die spirit of more learning with fewer resources. “All you have to do is spend more (Prop 30, 38) on education” should be ignored as Prop 30, 38 do not serve our state’s school and university children. Additional money (Prop 30, 38) is not the magic elixir. We are kidding ourselves by believing that education funding shortfalls disappear with Prop 30, Prop 38.
Prop 30, Prop 38 levy significant taxes on each one of us. The wounds that Prop 30, 38 are to heal have been self inflicted largely by our elected Sacramento politicians who simply do not say no to any influential interest group be they teachers, University of California (29% increase in salaries last 6 years), public employees business, or other unions or lobbyists.
As election day approaches Prop 30, 38 are used by Sacramento politicians and lobbyists to blackmail us.
Vote No on Prop 30, 38, 32. Save California education fo

Moravecglobal (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 6:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

CalFacts and EdFacts, both state supported websites provide all the facts about education funding you need, in order to recognize the lies driving Prop 30 spurious claims.

Vote NO on Prop 30, 38 and Measures A and B to stop this annual education industry lobby shakedown.

Vote YES on Prop 32.

Prop 32 stops your own tax dollars getting used to campaign against your own best interests.

Prop 32 will stop union dues used for political purposes from getting funneled directly off the top of all public employee salaries and flowing directly to public employee union bosses, so they can fund even more political attacks on your pocketbook.

Wake up, folks. Public employee unions have been stealing you blind while you slept during these past "progressive" years.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Pathetic troll Oblati is.

Sutter Brown on tour is brilliant politics.

John_Adams (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It would be refreshing if pro Prop 30 public employee posters admitted they wanted more money for themselves. Then we could decide if we wanted to give them more money or not.

And they could also decide depending upon the outcome if they don't get more money, whether they want to stay on their job or look for something else. Clean and neat without millions spent on all this smoke and mirrors campaigning.

If a teacher was honest enough to say:

I am now making $67,000 (fill in the blank) for a 180 day year with paid holidays and perks, plus getting approx $10,000 in additional tax free health and retirement benefits.

I want you to give me and everyone else in my school district a raise that will cost you $XXX.XX dollars per year on your property tax bill.

Will you vote to take your money and give me this raise? What do you want me to do in return?

Thank you for your consideration.

BTW, we will also be asking you soon for another bond issue to be added your property tax bill on top of the six other ones, since most state funding ($9,000-11,000 per student depending on who you talk to) is used for our personnel costs and there is not much money left over for capital construction and major maintenance.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

scare troll Oblati never quits, and does NOT address Binky's thoughtful criticisms of his/her hate union/dislike children rants. Reread Binky's refs above, then note Oblati's obfuscations. Oh, and I am not a public school teacher, I work in the private sector.
YES on 30, parcel taxes A & B, NO on 32.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not a public employee but I think most of them deserve more money, especially teachers and emergency personnel, scientists and medical professionals.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Do these dogs truly support the ideologies of their owners or are they being bought off with the temptation of fame? Dogs can easily be bought with treats, and as such their political support might be suspect.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 5:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken, you know the salaries and benefits of all public employees because they are posted on line. What exactly do you think they should be getting paid? That gives us a better idea of what you think our new taxes should look like to meet your goal.

(See John Chiang State Controllers website)

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 6:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Give them all a 10k raise, take it out of your income (and nobody else's).

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
November 3, 2012 at 7:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As Margaret Thatcher always said: socialism is great until you run out of spending other people's money.

SB school teachers start with minimum qualifications at $43K and go up to $79K for 185 work days.

On top of this base salary is an approx $10K benefits package tax free along, with additional bonus compensation for longevity, masters degrees, Phd's and special assignments.

Work product: majority of SB students graduate needing remedial education when they go to college.

SB schools have already put 8 taxes on your current property tax bill and now they want two of those renewed permanently.
State already sends $9,000-$11,000 per student to SB schools.

Vote for your next SB school board and additional property tax packages wisely with this in mind.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Teachers are deserving of good pay. What burns my butt about it is the retirement system and pay based on seniority.

Teachers should have defined contribution plans instead of defined benefit plans and pay should be based on performance instead of seniority. Aside from that, I think teachers in general should be well compensated.

Botany (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree. Use present dollars to pay teachers well because we do wan't the best.

But out of those present salaries, the teachers need to be responsible for their own health insurance, which their unions should start providing as a group plan and change to a defined contribution retirement plan that is no greater than social security. Then anything more comes out of pocket as each teacher wishes to spend.

This way we are not taking present dollars out to pay for past services like we are now which spreads present tax dollars too thin for those actually in the classrooms teaching.

Here is the plan for education reform:

1. Switch to defined contribution retirement
2. Unions provide group health insurance, not the schools - this is an out of pocket expense, not an entitlement.
3. Pay well, retain the good and be able to terminate the bad.
4. Classroom performance counts as part of the overall evaluation of a teacher
5. Seniority pay and preference eliminated.
6. Merit and team work encouraged.

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Our teachers certainly ARE deserving of good pay, glad you can see that Botany, you're learning. Let's separate the public employee pension system and your hatred of it from good teachers. Those retired teachers will get their money whether Prop 30 passes or not, it's moot at this point. I accept that pay based exclusively on seniority is a big issue, and this has to be ameliorated somehow by an assessment plan which also rewards fantastic teaching. Yet if you take away all seniority why would GREAT teacher stay on and on? Most businesses do reward good service over long periods of time, you know.
Oblati dislikes teachers and the teaching profession when mocking the $43,000 @ year starting pay: try living in this town on that, Oblati. Oh yeah, you're a fatcat or fatcat-wanna-be so you don't care about teachers, as shown by your cheap shot about working 185 days @ year: most public school teachers I know work second jobs in the summer to make ends meet. In other countries where I have taught the status of teachers is extraordinarily high, and you demonstrate the low status of teachers here. How'd you like to get a pink slip almost every May and then have to wait to see if you have a teaching job in the fall. Great way to keep on great teachers.
I laugh about your "$9000" per year sent to SB Schools -- they send over $19,000 per year to NY State schools from NY State, get it?
You really ought to educate yourself about these matters before spouting off, and Lou as well.
Vote for Ed Heron, Vote for 30 and parcel taxes A and B

DrDan (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Who would ever want a 401(K) type system, try retaining great teachers with that idea, Oblati?! And of course "Classroom performance counts as part of the overall evaluation of a teacher" as you write, nothing new there.
Yes, we should be able to terminate the "bad" teachers, I agree completely. Look at LAUSD and their problems in teacher assessment -- not easy, but yes has to be done better. Using student test scores (e.g. API) is very tricky, shouldn't be over 20% of the overall teacher evaluation.
Since you think "teachers need to be responsible for their own health insurance" and want to dump it on their unions, why not go all the way and have a true national healthcare system (super Obamacare), socialize it, and you'll see it's cheaper for all concerned. They do this in Finland and most of the intelligent European countries: look at Finland's students' test scores!!

DrDan (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You want to attract good teachers you gotta pay them a decent salary. And give them the tools they need in the classroom. SB school standards and curriculum were actually degraded by "No Child Left Behind", ditch that.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As a matter of policy, evidence indicates the 401(k) has been a seriously flawed way to fund the retirement of working Americans.

Interestingly, the tax code that came to be 401(k) was originally intended to be a tax shelter for highly compensated individuals in the 70's (via tax deferral). It wasn't until a few years later that an accountant came up with the idea to base a retirement plan on it. The rest is history.

So its not like the idea of the 401(k) retirement plan was the result of a careful study to see how Americans could safely & reasonably save for retirement. It was based on an accountant's idea to reduce expenses for his corporate client.

A quick overview of the failure of the 401(k) plan:

Most Americans making decisions for their 401(k)'s are financially illiterate (my friends in the banking industry concur, although very politely):

Historical overview of related tax legislation:

Nice chart showing the historical shift of assets from pensions to 401(k)'s:

From Ellen Schulz, reporter for the Wall Street Journal and award-winning journalist:

I haven't made a complete case because this is a complicated topic. But do your own research and you'll see the numbers are disheartening. And for soon-to-be retirees, the failures of defined contribution plans just make Social Security funding issues even worse.

In summary, I would not take away pensions from teachers just because I'm not lucky enough to have one. A big part of the problem is flaws with the other side of the coin.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Odd that posters here are still trying to defend what they are getting and the reason they should get more, rather than convincing us we should give them more.

Hope these are not our local teachers being this selfish and self-centered because that does not bode well for their future.

These would be exactly the teachers that do need to shop their resumes and get a job where they get paid for what they think they are worth, instead of what they are worth to the company.

Yes, one can live in Santa Barbara for $43,000 + $10,000 benefits working only 185 days a year. That leaves plenty of time to work a second job and additional, because anyone thinking they have a real job working only 185 days a year needs another reality check with the rest of us working stiffs.

Keep in mind all $43,000 is discretionary cash because teachers don't have to save for retirement or pay for health insurance. That makes a teachers salary look very different - they get to spend it all any way they want.

The rest of this working outside of public employment still have to set aside parts of our income for health insurance and retirement - self-funded. Yup, that is the way it works outside of public employment and why teachers whining they are "so underpaid" falls on deaf ears.

Teaching K-12 is not rocket science. It is a job like any other job, but everyone works hard and cares a lot about their jobs, often with far fewer perks and benefits than teachers get.

Again, can't compare compensation for public workers and private workers --- more apples and oranges.

Teachers need to get over themselves and start liking what they do a lot better than what we hear from them now and always playing the victim card. That finally has become very tiresome. Voter fatigue.

We want to like our teachers, we really do. We want what is best for our kids. But with teachers constantly getting in our faces saying .... prove it by paying us more .... and more and more every year is really getting old and very irritating.

Their unions today are teachers own worst enemy now. Not sure there is any greater disconnect between teachers on the job and the quite negative image of the teacher unions in this country.

Just saying........

Oblati (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I receive nothing except the benefits of a better, more civilized, educated and cultured society of happy, healthy, responsible and productive people- today's students are tomorrows leaders.
YES on 30.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
November 4, 2012 at 7:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As stated above Oblati I am not a public school teacher or public employee, check the posts you claim to have gone over.
Your whole thing is US -- THEM..."We give...They want"... you write... they are
"trying to defend what they are getting and the reason they should get more, rather than convincing us we should give them more. "
Educating children is a complete WE activity; sadly, you're just a troll working for monied interests and you will never get it. You're so off on so much, too little interest to correct e.g. teachers themselves do PAY INTO their retirement, you imagine it as some kind of gift... and teaching certainly is NOT "just a job"!!
your distate for teachers runs through your entire screed.
Hope 30 wins and you have to pay up more.
just sayin'

DrDan (anonymous profile)
November 5, 2012 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

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