This long rifle 40 RN-L bullet is made with lead.

Paul Wellman

This long rifle 40 RN-L bullet is made with lead.

Lead Ammo Blasted By Group of Experts

Thursday, April 11, 2013
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Last month, in a statement released via the University of California’s online publication service, 30 scientists, doctors, and public health experts cited “overwhelming scientific evidence” about the toxic effects of lead to the health of humans and wildlife and called for the “reduction and eventual elimination” of lead-based ammunition “in order to protect human and environmental health.” The “consensus statement” was issued as the California Legislature considers Assembly Bill 711, which would ban lead hunting ammo in the state. Such ammo is already banned in parts of the Los Padres National Forest and other areas considered to be possible habitat for critically endangered California condors.


Independent Discussion Guidelines

This is a no brainer but unfortunately most of those hard core hunters also suffer from no-brain expect a loud opposition to arise.

Ban lead. Just ban it. They can make the bullets out of other metals.

iamsomeguyinsb (anonymous profile)
April 11, 2013 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No one has any ammo anyway, so why worry about it?

edukder (anonymous profile)
April 11, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The NRA is geared up to oppose this bill. Those of us who support it should contact the water, parks, wildlife committee assembly members listed by the NRA:

at_large (anonymous profile)
April 11, 2013 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Such a no brainer. Glad UC California is ahead of the curve on this. Lead paint was banned in California years ago.
Can imagine all the lead pencil shavings we were exposed to? Not to mention the poor saps who used to chew on their lead paint coated pencils from China.
I wonder if all the illegal hollow point ammo, being purchased by DHS, is made of lead.

ramoncramon (anonymous profile)
April 11, 2013 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

One of those "no-brain" hunters here - I haven't used lead for years specifically for the reasons found by this study. Why would I want to eat lead and why would I want to harm the beautiful wilderness I get to experience many times a year? I agree completely with this legislation and I will gladly pay the extra $s for non-lead ammunition. Although, I do think it should be legal to use lead ammunition at shooting ranges.

Num1UofAn (anonymous profile)
April 11, 2013 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So many assumptions with no data presented. That sounds like another group of folks not using their brain.

Riceman (anonymous profile)
April 12, 2013 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Even the US Army started working on the design of a lead-free bullet for their 5.56 mm NATO rounds years ago.

The one munitions plant I've been to in the midwest had an EPA hazard lead cleanup project, probably related to the testing range. Other munitions plants across the US have similar cleanup programs. With so many of the factories in areas of the country that depend on aquifers and well water, going lead-free would lessen the impact of the manufacturing process on local communities.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
April 12, 2013 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, a sample of NATO rounds from each batch of gunpowder is tested on the firing ranges to screen out bad batches of powder. And tracer rounds have to be tested for each batch of tracer chemicals.

When the plant makes billions of rounds each year (not an exaggeration) that's a lot of lead on the ranges, even if the leech rate is low.

Impacts from civillian uses like hunting are also important of course.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
April 12, 2013 at 11:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)


I believe at one time your stated that you worked on M855A1?

This is a copper/steel bullet, so no lead but dangerous in the forest if the steel sparks against a rock, if the intended target is missed.

Mk262 is still lead/copper jacket.

Frangible copper works well on small game but on larger game with full copper and plastic tips, to aid in expansion, still tend to go through and through without expansion on heavier tissue.

Also no-lead works better at higher velocities, in order to group like lead, example a 2nd shot.

No-lead is advancing but still has a way to go in the area of the humane kills, that expanding lead offers.

California Dams and the redistribution of water from the natural flow has done more to destroy herds of elk and deer and their predators, which the California Condors ate the scraps than lead has ever done but lead is a good Target and the Water Projects and their Original Sin are not.

howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
April 14, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I finished my project @LCAAP (not related to bullet design) in 2009 while they were still working on the replacement ball round. At the time, it was a copper jacket with a lead slug. Not sure when they switched to the new bullet. They were trying bismuth at the time.

While damming projects may have mixed impacts downstream, I think we have to keep working on the lead issue because, frankly, it's damned hard to remove a dam (just look at Hetch Hetchy).

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
April 14, 2013 at 6:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)


I won't debate lead as I am not qualified but my opinion is, if all the lead was removed from the planet, the Condor is still going to die off. The Condor has been devastated by water damming and diversion plain and simple. They starve if not feed at artificial feeding centers of domestic livestock. It really is hard to turn a "wild thing" into a domestic pet, be a good birdy and only eat what we feed you. With the complete collapse of their natural ecosystem, they are unable to ever roam free again and find enough to eat without artificial means.

The Condor game is just that, a game, the animal, due to the activity of man will never again roam free and exist on its own. Simply not enough herd animals dying at the hands of predators each day.

How many pounds of rotten meat does a big bird need each day?

This is sad but reality.

howgreenwasmyvalley (anonymous profile)
April 15, 2013 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

gotta agree with you HGWMV on this one; I've witnessed the guys in a pickup bringing a frozen "beef popsicle" out past Painted Rock and dumping it for the birds. Somehow, it feels insulting to this ancient critter and terribly sad. We're making it live in an outdoor zoo, so to speak. It is a Condor game.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
April 15, 2013 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

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