Europe’s View of Israel and Gaza

Harsh Effects of War on Gazans Lose Friends for Israel

Friday, August 29, 2014
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Despite the series of truces in the latest Gaza war, fighting breaks out time and again, and the damage wrought to both sides has been intense, psychological trauma included. I’ve been watching this during a visit to central Europe these past two months, and it’s interesting to see the coverage on ARD and Bayern 1 instead of CNN and MSNBC.

Almost every evening, tens of millions of Europeans have seen vivid and scary videos of buildings in Gaza blown up, moaning parents clawing in the rubble for relatives, and especially heart-rending pictures of Palestinian men running with dying babies and bloody children in their arms into a UN hospital in Gaza. Even my liberal German friends who completely support the nation of Israel are turning away from its extreme response and the government that orders it. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) carnage is tremendously disproportionate to the damage done to Israel by the hundreds of Hamas rockets — four Israeli civilians and almost 70 IDF soldiers killed compared to over 2,000 Gazans, including at least 500 children..

Thinking Europeans and Americans despise Hamas, as I do, and how its insanely angry leaders hide like cowards in Cairo or Qatar. But the ritual “lawn mowing” of Hamas in Gaza by the IDF is causing Israel to utterly lose the “war” for world public opinion.

In the UK, Tory minister Baroness Sayeeda Warsi resigned from her post, stating she could no longer support Prime Minister David Cameron’s “morally indefensible” policy of unwavering support for Israel’s extreme right-wing government and its war crimes against Gazans. In August, more than 150,000 Britons in London marched in protest of Israel’s killings and destruction in the Gaza Strip. The protest was mirrored in several other European cities.

Retired South African Archbishop and Nobel Prize–winner Desmond Tutu recently called Israel’s actions in Gaza “barbaric,” stating at Durban’s International Union of Architects meeting: “I have condemned those Palestinians responsible for firing rockets at Israel, for violence is not the solution to human crises. The disproportionality of Israel’s response, however, has been utterly horrendous.”

Israelis and supporters of Israel should be troubled by how world opinion is changing against them. Globally we are now witnessing a frightening increase in anti-Semitism. This third “lawn mowing” of Hamas’s Al Qassam fighers and innocent Palestinian civilians and children is bringing out the latent anti-Semitism hiding in many European corners, notably in France.

In the U.S., television news and other media quite openly favor Israel — mirrored in Congress by our Representatives voting more aid for Israel. This extraordinary American media bias is certainly not paralleled in Germany or in the rest of Europe.

When the U.S. Senate voted 100–0 in July to support Israel unconditionally, the U.S.A. became complicit in these Israeli massacres. If Americans think we aren’t, well, many non-Americans believe we are. The unqualified backing of the Israeli government was certainly a part of Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s decision to crush Hamas in Gaza, whatever it takes and however many kids die.

PM Netanyahu — à la Nixon and his 1972 handshake with Mao and China — has the historic opportunity to embrace a peace process with the West Bank’s Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Negotiate! With his right-wing credentials, only Netanyahu could drag Israel’s Likud and extremist parties into an agreement accepting the vital “Two-State Solution,” which is the only path to sustained peace in the Middle East. Unlike the failed approach of previous peace attempts, it would take on the two most difficult problems. First: the West Bank and the status of Jerusalem. Make Jerusalem an “international city” as the UN called for back in 1948, not the capital of either country.

And just as heroic Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin did with Egypt, Netanyahu should trade “land for peace” (the illegally colonized West Bank), as Rabin did by giving up the Sinai to Egypt. Fatah’s Abbas has to eliminate the military wing of Hamas for this to work, just as Netanyahu has to legitimately hold down Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and the influence of religious ultra-Zionists and Third Temple fanatics.

For the U.S. politicans, the influence of AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) is immense. But just as Baroness Warsi called for a limit on export licenses on British armaments to Israel, so President Obama must dare to ignore AIPAC and press Congress to discuss denying continued funding of advanced weapons systems to Israel.

Dan McCaslin worked in Israel as an archaeologist while researching Canaanite stone anchors, making deep friendships while there. He contributes to the Hiking the Backcountry column for The Independent.


Independent Discussion Guidelines

Complicity in this genocide is guaranteed by the the apparent necessity of prefacing all criticism with the disclaimer, "I support Israel's right to exist."

If one supports Israel's right to exist it follows that he also supports the means by which a "homeland" was established for Russian Jews in Palestine; the means by which the Jews got rid of their British protectors; the means by which Israel became a sovereign state; the means by which Israel enlarged its claim on Palestinian lands, and the means by which Israel continues to exist.

These periodic bloodbaths in Gaza are designed to show all the nice, liberal, supporters of peace, how utterly feckless they are. And while we are apologetically asking Israel to stop the killing they are audaciously demanding - and getting - $225 million in emergency aid. The pleasure they get from that is worth more than the money.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 29, 2014 at 4:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rabin was assassinated and that sent a clear message to those who would trade land for peace.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 29, 2014 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The man who assassinated Gandhi was a HINDU nationalist; the man who killed Rabin was a Jewish Israeli student and he also proved Rabin's trade threatened nationalists, in this case super-right expansionist Israelis. Rabin's trade HAS secured "peace" with Egypt by trading "land" (the Sinai). The last thing Hamas leaders AND Likud & rightwing expansionist Israelis want is peace, or a Two-State solution.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 29, 2014 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Peace in Egypt is secured by massive financial payoffs from the United States. Hosni Mubarak was given $1.2 billion per year for over thirty years. The new leaders in Egypt undoubtedly have the same deal, though they may not get as much.

You stated the message that was delivered by Rabin's assassination - that the Likud and all other right-wing expansionists will not negotiate land for peace. When Obama suggested such negotiations he was upbraided and required to re-word his speeck leaving out the reference to 1967 borders. Likud is calling the shots and no matter who pulled the trigger on Rabin, his death served as a warning to Likud's opponents.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 1:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Charismatic reformers take heroic risks, and think of what happened to JFK, MLKJr, Lincoln and Jesus himself...! Too simplistic to say 'oh when the Right assassinates a heroic reformer then the result is in the end of those reform efforts.'
Relax, as an empire we pay off plenty of headmen and elected leaders, just as we spy on most of themn: we give tons to Israel, tons to Egypt, other places... and some of this is legitimate assistance, some is in the form of military loans. Thus, we have a military democracy like ancient 400s BCE Athens.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 6:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Relax, as an empire we pay off plenty of headmen and elected leaders, just as we spy on most of themn: we give tons to Israel, tons to Egypt, other places... and some of this is legitimate assistance, some is in the form of military loans. Thus, we have a military democracy like ancient 400s BCE Athens.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 6:52 a.m.

Like the way we pay off guys like Noriega and Saddam then use em up and imprison or kill them.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Paying Egypt is in Israel's interest, not in our interest. The U.S. is not an empire; it is the financier and facilitator of Zionism's globalist program. Israel under the Likud owns the U.S. congress and controls U.S. presidents. Israel has kept us embroiled in wars that cannot be construed as being in America's interest. We are held in thrall to an alien power.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In its brief history, Israel has had one war after another and each time they are blamed as the aggressor only for history to prove otherwise.

The Arabs do not recognize the right of Israel to exist and are in a constant state of hostility against her. Their aim is to destroy Israel.

Israel is completely justified in their use of force to protect itself.

"The state of Israel must, from time to time, prove clearly that it is strong, and able and willing to use force, in a devastating and highly effective way. If it does not prove this, it will be swallowed up, and perhaps wiped off the face of the earth." - Moshe Sharett

sbresident2 (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Egyptians are Arabs, and Egypt recognizes the right of Israel to exist.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 6:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jordan is an Arab country, and they too recognize Israel.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 6:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As Americans, it shouldn't matter to us whether Israel exists or not, rather we should question AIPAC's right to exist, along with the other religious lobbies. We should have separation of church and state.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 8:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A state's "right to exist" is an absurdity. Only one state on earth asserts such a "right" and it makes the claim even though they have no "right" to take by force and keep lands and property belonging to others.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 9:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)


It is an inherently agressive act to set up a "state" on lands belonging to others. Eastern European Jews have only a mythological association with Palestine - they have no genetic or historical ties to that land or its people. Furthermore, the Jews who were indigenous to the Middle East were never consulted by the British who made the promise to the Zionists.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 9:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess the author just wants Israel to shut up and take the Hamas bombs falling on their land. After all, not too many people are killed by them.

If Mexican bombs starting exploding in San Diego, I'm sure our government would be OK with it as long as too many people didn't die.

And if one or two Americans died, the UN would let us kill a couple of Mexicans as payback.

Botany (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 10:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My sympathies are with the Palestinian and Israeli civilians. Hamas lost any credibility when they broke the last cease fire with 100+ rockets. Drone their weaselly asses and ISIS too.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
August 30, 2014 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Your analogy doesn't work. Mexicans are not in a closely guarded concentration camp.

The world's fourth largest military per capita has blockaded Gaza on all sides for nearly a decade, depriving its citizens of necessities - the IDF is not going to have any trouble disarming the population, capturing and destroying all explosive devices and anything that could launch a "rocket".

In 1967 Israel confidently launched a preemptive strike against neighboring Arab countries that had well-equipped military forces - Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Nearly fifty years later and billions of dollars in U.S. military aid and now the IDF can't disarm civilians in a concentration camp?

Note that they never refer to the "rockets" as missiles or bombs - that's because the "rockets" have no payloads - they don't explode. The Israelis are not to be believed.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 2:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The UN, led by the W.W. II victors, set up modern Israel: blame them. Once established in Palestine, Israelis defended themselves. Only they've gone far too far in punishing Gazan civilians and children.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 4:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Poor Dan does not even come close to making his case. Once again, we have people from both sides presenting their myopic view as factually complete. As someone that spends nearly 30% of my time in western Europe what has surprised me is the diversity of opinion around this issue. Further, I have seen diminishing support for Hamas as they have shown themselves, at best, incapable of controlling their own nuts, and at worst completely duplicitous in breaking every temporary truce.

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 6:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To add to DaveyBrown's comment ... Since 1946, the Palestinians have seen Israel take more, and more, and still more of the land that was originally part of the Mandate of Palestine.

Take a look at this series of maps and read history professor and Fulbright Scholar Juan Cole's narrative of Israel's reshaping of Palestine:

The Israeli government and Hamas both have blood on their hands. You don't have to be a genius to know that. But to Dan McCaslin's point, a large number of Americans can only sympathize with Israel. That's partly due to big money lobbying by the Pro Israel lobby and support from organized conservative Christians.

But unquestioning American support for Israel is also due to the fact that the average American isn't very aware of the history of what's happened in Palestine since the end of WWI. Many Americans, especially older generations, think about Nazi death camps and that sort of gives Israel an "automatic pass". Europeans, however, are much more aware of both sides of the story because that was a part of their history (British in Palestine, French in Syria).

How embedded is the memory of Palestine in the British conscious? A good example is Peter Kosminsky's historical drama, "The Promise":

While doing research for his series, Kosminsky, himself a Jew, interviewed surviving British soldiers who served in the Mandate of Palestine. These elderly vets provided accounts of the Jewish guerrilas' (we call them terrorists now) bombing of the King David Hotel and hanging of British soldiers, and the taking of Palestinian homes and farms.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Two state solution to Ukraine:

Good job, Victoria Nuland.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)


"Modern" Israel was "set up" by Jewish violence and terror against the civilian population of Palestine. After dispossessing and exiling nearly 3/4 million Palestinians, Jewish land holdings went from 3% to 77%. When the United Nations sent Count Bernadotte and European observers to assess the situation and mediate, both Bernadotte and a French observer were assassinated by Jews.

The U.N. did not set up Israel and has been entirely ineffective in exerting any control over Israeli aggression, theft, assassination, and war crimes. The list of U.N. censures of Israel is unbelievably long but the list of censures Israel ignores or the U.S. vetoes is the same length.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

from US Government:
"Although the United States supported the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which favored the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had assured the Arabs in 1945 that the United States would not intervene without consulting both the Jews and the Arabs in that region.
On November 29, 1947 the United Nations adopted Resolution 181 (also known as the Partition Resolution) that would divide Great Britain’s former Palestinian mandate into Jewish and Arab states in May 1948 when the British mandate was scheduled to end. Under the resolution, the area of religious significance surrounding Jerusalem would remain a corpus separatum under international control administered by the United Nations.
Although the United States backed Resolution 181, the U.S. Department of State recommended the creation of a United Nations trusteeship with limits on Jewish immigration and a division of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab provinces but not states.
On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day." SEE
You will quibble, dodge,and turn all day, but dewdly the UN, say the WW II victors, created the new state in 1947, David Ben Gurion seized the day in 1948, the Arabs attacked and lost... here we are. The major event is the Six Day War of 1967 when Israel, after being attacked, KEPT what wasn't Israel's to keep, and Johnson and Nixon and Reagan let them keep West Bank.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)


The opinion of Europeans about Israel's seemingly endless wars in the Middle East is undoubtedly colored by the heavy immigration of Muslims into Northern Europe. Jews promote that immigration and the resulting conflicts as a way to influence Europeans to take Israel's side in a conflict in which Europeans have no national or personal interest.

Israel's false flag attacks are meant to do the same thing. And that is why Netanyahu seemed so pleased after 9/11 and Ephraim Halevy gushed over the "near-perfect" execution of the London bombings on 7/7.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Israel's wars? The last "Israeli" war will be the only one they lose.

Botany (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 5:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

as usual, dewdly has reading comprehension problems, which Botany can also see: I wrote about 1967, "The major event is the Six Day War of 1967 when Israel, after being attacked..." Oftentimes Arab countries have attacked Israel.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Israel made a preemptive strike against Egypt in the Six Day War, that is to say, Israel was the first to use military force. Israel attacked Egypt.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 7:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Uh what about 1973?

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Israel's wars are primarily the ones they get us to fight. We have no national interests to protect in Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, ad infinitum.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Uh we have a national interest in keeping the oil flowing from the Middle East. There is this thing called the world economy it runs on the flow of oil. Stop being an idiot and believing that Israel is behind every American foreign policy move in the Middle East.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 8:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm aware of the so-called pre-emptive strike by Israel vs. Egypt, and have read Michael B. Oren's definitive book THE SIX-DAY WAR, but a more nuanced approach shows that Israeli leaders had little choice. Read this from Britannica:
"...on May 14, 1967, Nasser mobilized Egyptian forces in the Sinai; on May 18 he formally requested the removal of the UNEF stationed there; and on May 22 he closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping, thus instituting an effective blockade of the port city of Elat in southern Israel. On May 30, King Ḥussein of Jordan arrived in Cairo to sign a mutual defense pact with Egypt, placing Jordanian forces under Egyptian command; shortly thereafter, Iraq too joined the alliance.
In response to the apparent mobilization of its Arab neighbours, early on the morning of June 5, Israel staged a sudden preemptive air assault and destroyed Egypt’s air force on the ground..." I am not sure Israel had any real choice.
Look, Israel pushes USA to help it, why not. We should help to some degree, but I agree with the Voices writer that in Israel-Gaza 2014 Israel went way too far. Negotiate. Land for Peace.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Oil is a commodity that is bought and sold on the world market. That makes it a business interest, not a national interest. What is our national interest in Afghanistan? Israel?

Currently the Likud Party controls our congress and our president. Where is U.S. foreign policy made?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 8:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The oil politics are in the interest of the Federal Reserve and other Wall Street banks, it doesn't benefit the average American. The point of the effort is to maintain the dollar as the currency of choice in oil sales for the benefit of those that control the dollar economy. Individual residents of the US might benefit from doing business in alternate currencies, and thereby paying less taxes to the war machine.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
August 31, 2014 at 9:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Why should the U.S. "help" Israel?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 3:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My question seems to have stopped Davy - anyone else care to say why the U.S. should "help" Israel?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

no comment to trolls like dewdly.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Because Israel helps the US.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)


Could you be more specific - how does Israel "help" the U.S. ?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)


You said we "should help Israel", I am giving you the opportunity to explain why we "should help Israel". It doesn't help Israel for you to be unable or unwilling to explain our obligation. You can't get off the hook simply by calling me a troll. You are obviously troubled by Israel's actions in Gaza so maybe it would help resolve a contradiction to answer the question.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Makes perfect sense:

Hamas commits war crimes by purposely fitting at civilians from civilian locations and refuses to admit Israel's right to exist.

Hamas is elected by Palestinians into power after Israel 100% evacuates Gaza and then spends millions of humanitarian aid building tunnels and rockets.

And Israel calls neighborhoods and texts Palestinians hours before firing to warn them.

So OF COURSE Israel is wrong to act after allowing thousands of rockets to be fired on them for years!

realitycheck88 (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'd like to see numbers and specifics before I agree that the Palestinians elected Hams in an American style majority (two party plus minors system). In many democratically based countries you have many many parties on the ballot with serious contenders. I'd like to sknow who and how many were on the Palestinian ballot, what their differences and points of common interest were, and if/how votes for more reasonable candidates may have cancelled each other out.
For instance, it's the plethora of sane candidates on the SB city council ballot that eventually cancel each other out, resulting in the elections of extremists like Dale Francisco. Yet very few Santa Barbarans would say they agree with Francisco or is representative of their views.; he wins by default not popularity. The very same could be true of Hamas.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

good points, Ken. In many third world lands they get "democracy" and then do the "one vote for one man one time" -- we ended up with Morsi, he gets canned, Egypt back at square one. I'd imagine something like that happened with hamas's "election" in Gaza in 2006...not truly democratic as we'd understand that term.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The world's only super-power is in decline, or relative decline, as Putin shows us in Ukraine, and China in the south China Sea. In realpolitik terms, modern Israel is a beachhead of 'western civilization' in the Near East, the Middle East, and as such is indeed a valuable ally there militarily. Within reason, Israel would back the USA in the area, although given their jealous sovereignty only to a certain point.
Since the USA was a chief victor and beneficiary of W.W. II, and under Truman willingly supported UN Res 181 [see comment August 31, 2014 at 2:39 p.m.], we were "in at the beginning" and in my view DO owe Israel and modern Israelis (including the one million Arab Israelis) significant support. Further, because of the Holocaust and the Jews not having their own country, I like the idea of them having their own country. Although as Herzl and others commented, Cyprus or Uganda would've also been fine as the secular "promised land". You can argue forever about Jews of Europe, Rothschild, Balfour 1917, etc. dewdly, but it doesn't matter. 1967 DOES matter.
The writer of this piece feels the Israeli gov't under Netanyahu and an extreme rightwing Likud coalition [Lieberman, a criminal, too], has gone WAY too far, and I agree strongly. 500 Gazan kids vs. 1 Israeli kid dead...and don't tell me the Gazan kids are "Hamas".
Pressure Israel, begin to choke off some rearmaments to them [Hellfire missiles for Apache helicopters], why let the Israeli tail wag the big US dog?
NEGOTIATE, Netanyahu, it's an historic opportunity for you to be a hero like Rabin. Sure, he got killed but so did Lincoln, Gandhi, and MLK, Jr. Land for Peace: West Bank under Abbas [not hamas] and a demilitarized "international" Jerusalem.
Before 1967, as we read in the Oren book, no serious Israeli politician or normal Jew over there ever imagined getting the West Bank or having Jerusalem as capital. Return to 1968 borders for peace.
Land for Peace. We actually owe it to Israel, and it is a form of support for Israel's longterm survival to slow down their imperialists. They are illegal colonies in the West Bank, not heroic "settlements".

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

1967 borders!

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fine sentiments, Dan. Blecch.

While left hand Obama was telling Israel to stop the carnage, right hand Congress was restocking Israel's American-made whiz-bangs. Pressure Congress, Dan? Eisenhower's attempt to get AZC (now called AIPAC) to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act got nowhere, RFK as Atty General had no better luck, and finally LBJ quashed continuing attempts. In fact, it's a truism that US laws pertaining to foreign countries all have an "Israeli exception." Israel has the best US Congress that money can buy.

Let's cut Israel loose. Unlike any ally, Israel does nothing for us, they only do things to us. They bombed a US govt facility in Egypt, tried to sink USS Liberty, possibly were involved in WTC attack (classified), and withheld vital intel from us in Beiruit (Marine barracks bombing) & pre-9/11, when they were breathing down Mohammed Atta's neck, etc. Victor Ostrovsky told me so.

Pardon my broken-record effect, but public campaign financing is a stone good to kill many, many birds.... Stike the root!

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pfffft there is absolutely no credible evidence that Israel was involved in the 9/11 attacks or that they new beforehand about the Marine barracks attack. Look up into the sky there are chemtrails to fight!

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Two state solutions all around: Israel, Palestine; East Ukraine, West Ukraine; East US, West US - divided at the Rockies, we set up our own capital and print our own currency.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 7:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)


Lands acquired by violence and terrorism cannot be legitimized simply by Ben Gurion's declaration and Truman's "recognition". Why should the political maneuverings of an American presidential candidate commit America forever after to support a "state" obtained by violence and terrorism?

The trouble is that by 1947 the Jews had obtained by legitimate means only 7% of the land in Palestine. They had to kill or expel and dispossess 700,000 Palestinians before Ben Gurion declared a state in 1948. If you are going to accept the first land grab in 1947 how can you justify not accepting the second land grab in 1967? The Likud counts on this bit of liberal hypocrisy.

Netanyahu is relentlessly pursuing the goals of the World Zionist Organization that was formed in the late 19th century. He doesn't want to negotiate, but to fulfill. Perhaps you could press Obama, Boxer, Feinstein, or Lois Capps to deny Netanyahu money and arms until he comes to the table.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 1, 2014 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Or, one could press American Jewry to deny Congress support until they stop giving away the store for Israel. But so timorous are the herds of humanofauna of this land, that none but a few will attempt it, these few being in fact Jewish. And these I dub (with all effrontery) "righteous Jews," patterning it after the phrase "righteous Gentile," which means a goy who sacrifices his schmuck self for the benefit of Jews. A highly quixotic undertaking , nu?

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 12:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hark, how the herschel doth banefully roar!

atomic_state (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"The Herschel" to you.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 3:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Im sorry hershcle, but the Jews were behind 9/11 and its proved with this one minute video from the show South Park. (Kyle Brovlovsky is Jewish)

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 3:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Zionists is the appropriate term, not Jews: the cabal referred to as the "International Zionist Criminal Conspiracy" in Loose Change 9/11 videos
Israel is a Rothschild state whose flag is the Rothschild family shield.

9/11 Mossad van not Southpark

Rothschild 1917 purchase of land in Palestine

Rothschilds: Balfour Agreement

3/11 was Japan’s 9/11. It’s all documented folks!
This investigation has been endorsed by the engineers who designed and built Fukushima Diiachi

14noscams (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The same people who funded the UN Global Environment Foundation, the UN bank formed to transfer US assets to UN bureaucrats and NGOs and the EU promoters of NWO global fascism.

In October of 1987 at the 4th World Wilderness Congress in Denver, Colorado, Edmund De Rothschild delivered a speech in which he seemingly outlined a call for action, referencing fraudulent CO2 emission science to back up his claims, all the while setting up GEF’s primary objective, which has been said to use mineral rich areas around the world as security for IMF lent loans to poverty-stricken countries. Many believe that when these countries fail to payback the loan GEF will then collect any potential resources to repay the loan.
One only needs to look at how the spoils of Africa have been divided up over the years to see if there is any truth to this claim.
The owners of climate modeling corporation Weather Central.

Simon Linnett, Executive Vice-Chairman of Rothschild, has called for a new international body, the World Environment Agency, to regulate carbon trading.
In a recently published paper, Trading Emissions, for the Social Market Foundation, Mr Linnett argues that the International problem of climate change demands an international solution.

A Rothschild Plan for World Government
by Dr. K R Bolton |  March 24, 2011

United Nations Foundation:Who We Are Emma Rothschild

The Ariane de Rothschild Fellowship

by D.L. Cuddy, Ph.D.
Arranged and Edited by John Loeffler

14noscams (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Federal Reserve Cartel: Part IV: A Financial Parasite
Dean Henderson

"In the 1920’s Baron Edmund de Rothschild founded the Palestine Economics Commission, while Kuhn Loeb’s Manhattan offices helped Rothschild form a network to smuggle weapons to Zionist death squads bent on seizing Palestinian lands. General Julius Klein oversaw the operation and headed the US Army Counterintelligence Corps, which later produced Henry Kissinger. Klein diverted Marshall Plan aid to Europe to Zionist terror cells in Palestine after WWII, channeling the funds through the Sonneborn Institute, which was controlled by Baltimore chemical magnate Rudolph Sonneborn. His wife Dorothy Schiff is related to the Warburgs. [6]"

14noscams (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

On the heels of the latest war in Gaza, Israel is making yet another naked land grab in the occupied West Bank. And people wonder why some Palestinians fight back?

Erase some more green from the map:

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Pfffft there is absolutely no credible evidence that Israel was involved in the 9/11 attacks"

Beginning at 21:45 this doc discusses Israeli Operatives and 9/11, I recommend individuals look at the evidence themselves and make their own conclusions.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at noon (Suggest removal)

Credible Evidence, not some j.o. crackpot c/t lunatic's YouTube expose. Hey Bigfoot called me up today to tell you to stfu.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Again, I recommend that people come to their own conclusions. I will tell you that if you only watch what Herschel wants you to watch, you will have a very limited knowledge of the situation.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Incidentally, the video I posted is a compilation of media reports and interviews with people involved with government and intelligence related to Israel and 9/11. Why does Herschel come out so strongly against a compilation of these particular items? If that's all it is, what are they so afraid of? Why the personal attacks and name calling? One should ask themselves these questions and consider them when attempting to determine the credibility of that particular poster.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You know what I'm really sick of?? All of this deception, we are being deceived about almost everything these days.

Has anybody actually watched these fake beheading videos that the ISIS has been putting out?? They show the Mossad trained ISIS leader sawing the guys neck for several seconds with a very sharp knife and no blood comes out - then they cut to black and show the head and the body, looks like a prop from Men in Black. In fact, they don't even have the real Mark Foley in the video where he is supposed to be beheaded, they use an actor who doesn't even really look like Mark Foley:

A new poll came out, now 4 to 1 are in favor of invading Syria to get the ISIS.

People are so freaking unbelievably gullible, why do so many people still believe what the media is telling us when it is so blatantly fake?

People like Herschel help keep up the charade by mocking people who believe anything that doesn't line up with the story given by the mainstream media.

It's time to call out the media, people, we aren't this dumb, I know we aren't.. at least stop taking what the media puts out at face value.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Who benefits" is the key to any false flag investigation and the benefits and beneficiaries are easier to see as time goes on. The first person to judge 9/11 to be beneficial or "good" was Benjamin Netanyahu.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 2, 2014 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's like the boy who cried wolf. Those of us who are paying attention are learning not to pay any attention. Deception took the US to war in Iraq in the first place and it will be the same charade going forward.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
September 3, 2014 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It just amazes me that once the population gets bored with a group like Al Qaeda, they can just come up with some new boogie man they helped create and get everybody riled up for war in less than a month. 4:1 Americans are for going to war with ISIS all over these OBVIOUSLY fake beheading videos that nobody wants to watch because nobody wants to watch a beheading video. It took me weeks to finally watch it and that was after I'd seen and heard enough evidence to know it was fake Hollywood bologna.

It's not even a question whether it is fake or not, anybody who watches it can see that these two journalist beheading videos are absolutely, obviously fake. The James Foley video doesn't even have James Foley in it, it is someone who looks and sounds completely different. The guy doing the beheading saws at the neck of the victims for several seconds and no blood comes out - when you sever and artery in the neck blood gushes out and often shoots out. They are using a plastic knife in the beheading videos and there is no beheading. That is what we are dealing with here, we are going to war and we are going to kill innocent people over a plastic knife and some CGI beheaded Mannequins over a group that is headed and funded by the CIA.

Wow, so a double agent for the CIA within Al Qaeda leadership came out and said that even Al Qaeda thinks ISIS is too gruesome and violent - what a great way to elevate ISIS' status, they are just so smart.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
September 3, 2014 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you doubt the tale of 19 Muslims armed with boxcutters, directed from a cave in Afghanistan, hijacking four airplanes and taking down three buildings of the WTC and making a hole in the Pentagon - you are a "truther".

If you doubt that Germany made lampshades, soap, mattress stuffing, and shrunken head trophies out of Jews - you are a "denier."

If you question anything about Sandy Hook, the Boston Marathon Bombing, and the Rodger "rampage" in Isla Vista - you are a "conspiracy theorist."

If you doubt the authenticity of Obama's long form birth certificate you are a "birther".

If you question the sweet innocence of that little black boy, Trayvon Martin - you are a "racist".

If you think that "gay marriage" is a preposterous imposition on children - you are a "homophobe."

If you are outraged at Israel's genocide in Gaza - you are an "anti-Semite."

What are you if you believe the "beheadings" are fake?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 3, 2014 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

after clambering past the troll-nonsense of loon, dewdly, & 14noscams, East Beach's Wash. Post reference is relevant. FAR from learning anything from the repeated "lawn mowings" in Gaza, the last of which killed 500 Gazan children, Israel's insane government of extreme rightwingers will now grab MORE land in the CONQUERED West Bank lands, and establish more illegal COLONIES:
Wash. Post: "The Israeli government announced Sunday that it would appropriate almost 1,000 acres of land in the West Bank that could be used to build homes for Jewish settlers.
"The Israeli group Peace Now, which opposes expansion of Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, called it the largest land appropriation in 30 years."
Our only hope is J Street and Peace Now and AMERICAN JEWS putting pressure on the monster Netanyahu and his religious cronies.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 3, 2014 at 5:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)


If Peace Now and J Street are your only hope, it's a vain hope. When a joint session of Congress gives Netanyahu 29 standing ovations after dissing Obama with a few half-hearted claps it tells you that the Likud and Netanyahu own the political system in the U.S. What did your liberal Democratic president have to say about Gaza? If the President of the United States can't even okay a U.N. investigation into Israel's genocide what are the little Jewish groups that elected him going to do to counter the power of AIPAC?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 3, 2014 at 6:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In Daniel 5 the prophet tells Belshazzar, king of Babylon, that these mysterious words mene mene tekel upharsin mean"you're DONE" and don't even know it. The city fell the next day to the Persians.
mina, mina, shekel, half-mina. This is the interpretation of the matter: mina, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; shekel, you have been weighed on the scales and found wanting; half-mina, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians. —Daniel 5:25–28
The real meaning is in the "mene mene", an idiom implying that a (usually) negative event is easily predictable based on the current situation: the Fall of modern Israel is easily predictable, unfortunately, given the disproportionate and BLOODY slaughter of 500 Gazan kids, etc., as the author of this piece states: Netanyahu is a stupid monster and with his coalition and Likud is leading Israel to destruction. Many Israelis do know this in their bones: the fear there is palpable and avoidable. [PS phrase has zilch to do with Czar N., dewdly's a fool as well as a troll]
AMERICAN JEWS in concert with Israeli peace groups like Peace Now do need to unite, seize the moment, work with J Street...or Israel is doomed. I believe most know this.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
September 3, 2014 at 7:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Too many Dan's, Daniels, etc., this is freaking me out. I guess the phrase "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" makes sense, therefore, I am going to name myself Dan Danielson.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
September 4, 2014 at 1:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Nice reference from Dr D. They're going full speed ahead over a cliff and will lose Israel as a result. Defending it will be a costly losing battle.

Then we can look to the Bible again and realize that Israel has a metaphorical meaning. Rastafarians know that it's not a place but a state of mind. Having escaped slavery in recent history they realize the necessity to free one's thinking from Babylon.

random_kook (anonymous profile)
September 4, 2014 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm in, for now on I'm Danny Boy, being Irish and all...

nomoresanity (anonymous profile)
September 4, 2014 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

random_kook (anonymous profile)
September 4, 2014 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)


The legend of the Fall of Babylon is the basis for Zionism. It is the story of Jehovah's promised, vengeful destruction of the persecutor of the Jews and their restoration to Jerusalem. The Persian King Cyrus played the role of liberator.

During WW I the persecutor of the Jews was identified as the Russian Czar and the non-Jewish liberator was Balfour.

In WW II the persecutor of the Jews was Hitler and the non-Jewish liberator was Truman.

Restoration is not simply the "return" to Jerusalem. The tenets of the ancient Law are to "pull down and destroy ....[and] rule over all nations". These tenets were fulfilled in the same week in November 1917 when Jewish Bolshevism triumphed in Russia and Zionism triumphed in London.

It doesn't work to cast Netanyahu as King Belshazzar, persecutor of the Jews. Perhaps he fits more closely the character of Sabbatai Zevi, the failed Messiah. It remains to be seen.

Since Bolshevism removed the Czar in 1917 there was no longer a need for a refuge, so a new persecutor had to be found to justify the establishment of the State of Israel. That persector was identified as Hitler and as Belshazzar he rallied world Jewry to the cause of Zionism.

There have always been Jews who rejected Zionism, preferring assimilation and peace, but the image of Hitler is so potent that Jews are held in thrall. Jews will criticize the Likud, but not the "holocaust". They will criticize the Likud but they will not admit that 9/11, 3/11, and 7/7 were carried out by Israel. If they were really intent on getting rid of the "monster" Netanyahu and the Likud they could expose the authors of false flag terror. But Jews are captive to the fear of retribution and Netanyahu is confident that they will not give him up.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 4, 2014 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

au contraire to you both, I'd cast B. Netanyahu as Simon Bar Kokhba, who revolted from the Roman Empire [as Israel revolts from ME oil-rich Islamic states, and now esp. from the Caliphate aka Isis] in 132 CE and ruled in Jerusalem as Nasi... On the other hand, agree with the query why Israeli foreign policy drives OURS?? Sure, as I said 9/1/14, "why let the Israeli tail wag the big US dog?" We and the UN must oblige Netanyahu to deal with Abbas and recognize a Two-State solution, trading land [ILLEGAL claims by Israel on West Bank and Jerusalem] for peace [and a demilitarized Fatah/West Bank Government].

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 4, 2014 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Random_Kook hits on the point that is ignored: A spiritual vs. physical occurrence.

Is the "Israel" that is politicized what was discussed in the Bible--i.e. a mere piece of land, or a band of people united in God?

billclausen (anonymous profile)
September 4, 2014 at 7:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)


A state that was conceived as a power base and obtained by dispossessing, murdering or expelling over 700,000 Palestinians is not "spiritual".

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 5, 2014 at 1:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dewdly, your extraordinary prejudice shows again.

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 5, 2014 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)


Prejudice? In regard to what, exactly?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
September 5, 2014 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Another Israeli land grab" is excoriated in today's LATimes [9/9/14] by an American Jewish leader of J Street: Israel's extreme rightwing government under Netanyahu steals ANOTHER 1000 acres of the West Bank, for more COLONIES in an area that they don't have the right to do this. How is this different from Putin invading east Ukraine??

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 9, 2014 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

J. Ben Ami's LA Times article here:

DavyBrown (anonymous profile)
September 9, 2014 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

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