Millions Were Lost in Armenian Genocide

Saturday, February 8, 2014
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The February 2 letter “Armenian Genocide Not Legally Founded” is completely irresponsible. The denial of the Armenian genocide by Turkish descendants is notorious. Turkey, as a nation, refuses to admit to the slaughter of the Armenians. They have been denying it since it happened in 1915.

Thousands of books have been written on the reality of the Armenian genocide by people more prominent than Hillary Clinton or any of those referenced in the letter. It is well known that Hitler based what he did to the Jews on what the Turks did to the Armenians. He ended his speech on invading Poland with “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” One of the most educated commentaries about the Armenian Genocide was published in the L.A. Times, noting that the Armenian genocide was the first genocide of that century, and had the world interfered, that would have set the precedent that genocide is unacceptable by nations. The Times writer believed that would have prevented every other genocide of that century.

The authors of the letter say the Armenian genocide should not be taught in schools. Personally, I do not believe that children are capable of understanding man’s inhumanity to man. The subject should be taught to older students, in the context of genocide, along with all of the other instances of genocide. But, this does not mean that I am in any way denying the Armenian genocide. That would be a negation of history.

The Armenians were the first nation of people to accept Christianity from the Emperor Constantine, in 301 AD. They lived secularized in the Ottoman Empire, surrounded by the Muslim Turks. The Ottoman Empire was tolerant of the Christians in their midst. When the Ottomans were overthrown by the “Young Turk Guard,” that tolerance was over. The Turk Guard slaughtered millions of Armenian Christians to ethnically cleanse their realm. The atrocities are compared to the Holocaust and are the second-most-studied genocide. I encourage readers to contact the Museum of Tolerance in L.A. to learn the truth.


Independent Discussion Guidelines

Great letter. The truth shall set Turkey free. Until them they are bound by thge chains of denial of history. Nobody blames modern Turks for the genocide, yet so many act as if they would be put on trial.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
February 8, 2014 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All Turks are not deniers what happened to the Armenians. Many of us can see through the lies that our governments have been feeding us. The mass killings were not limited to Armenians. Assyrians, Greeks and other non-muslims were included. I think this should be taught at schools-in California and in a Turkey.

Hakan (anonymous profile)
February 8, 2014 at 10:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The article is full of BS! Armenia has never been the "first Christian" nation. It is a myth! Edessa (Osroene) was the first state to adopt Christianity in 201, a century before Armenia. Besides, Armenia was not even a state when ethnic Partian king Tiridat III adopted Christianity. Armenia was Parthia's vassal province that time. So, please stop spreading this BS.
Turks could havenot possibly killed 1.5 million Armenians in 1915. The total Armenian population that time was 1.4m, out of which 700,000 survived in Syria (Boghos Nubar Pasha personally admitted this) and another 500.000 Armenians fled to the Caucasus (Richard Hovannisian writes about it). So, maximum 200,000 lost their lives, half of them from hunger and illnesses. Now, compare 100.000 to 1.5 million! What a lie!
Finally, Armenians themselves were not angels at all. They killed half a million Turkish civilians (only identified victims) plus additional 1 million of unidentified victims buried in mass graves. It was Armenians who committed genocide against Turks and then were taught a good lesson.
Apparently, the lesson is not learnt.

hrantdink (anonymous profile)
February 9, 2014 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This fact void response only appeals to the ignorance of a reader. When you say "millions were killed"?! Millions of who, how many, on which dates and where, which scholars more "prominent than Hillary Clinton" said it? There are half a dozen renowned scholar names listed in the article you respond to, those who rejected your allegation, including Bernard Lewis, Stanford Shaw, Justin McCarthy, etc. Who are your scholars?

Atrocities that occurred during the mass resettlement of Armenians within the Ottoman Empire were not the first of the 20th century. The first atrocity was the mass killing of Hereros by Germans in Namibia in 1904. Although Hereros did not fight as army against Germans, unlike Armenian Dashnaks and Hunchaks who massacred Turks, the Herero case could probably be tried in a court of law. Might be useful to Google some history before putting the dogmatic thoughts together here.

Finally, Armenians were not the first Christians, Syriac kingdom of Osroene (Edessa) and its king Abgar were first circa 201 AD. While this is the truth you may not want to hear, your argument in principle has nothing to do with the atrocities of World War I, other than an attempt to attract some religious, or racist to be precise, sentiment from the reader. "Ohh, wow, did you know "first Christians" were killed by those darn Muslims, recognize the "genocide". You know Armenians massacred and deported Turks too, all through 20th century but that does not count, because we are the first Christians! Jesus himself entitled us to accuse others of crime without any court.

ulugen (anonymous profile)
February 9, 2014 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I see the Turkish embassy is in an uproar again. YEs, millions murdered. Accept, acknowledge, move on.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
February 9, 2014 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken Volok, I am an ordinary US taxpayer who cares about this country and this beautiful home state of California no less than you care about Armenia. And because of that, I flatly reject any dirty meddling in this state's legislature and education, aimed to poison us with your anti-Turk hate. Stand up to presented historical facts and respond to them in kind, instead of empty guessing about the identity of responders.

ulugen (anonymous profile)
February 9, 2014 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What anti-Turk hatred? The real haters of Turks are those who deny the truth of the Armenian genocide because they don't think modern Turks can handle the truth. Those are the real haters of Turks.
In addition, I tempted to wade thru your word soup which seemed to add up to two wrongs equalling a right . Why would I waste time with fantastical historical revisioinism when there's a real world to explore and enjoy?

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
February 9, 2014 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Turkey and Mr. Erdogan need to make a sincere apology and ACCEPTANCE of what their ancestors did; then move on. I wonder what Hizmet and the Sufi Turks would say of this?

DrDan (anonymous profile)
February 9, 2014 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Turkish trolls get paid 15 cents a word for their state running propaganda. They don't have our kind of freedom of speech. However, after listening to both sides, our democracy has spoken. Those that cave in to Turkish pressures do it not because it represents truth and justice but because os financial reasons.

Keyser_Soze (anonymous profile)
February 10, 2014 at 6:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just follow the thread of Turkish responses - full of presented facts and references, and empty Armenian responses - full of hate, racism, lacking substance. This should be sufficient to judge who is pursuing justice and peace, and who is just walking like a duck, hearing only what he/she wants to hear. Enough said.

ulugen (anonymous profile)
February 10, 2014 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The man who coined the word "genocide" (it was a brand new word) in the 1940's, and who survived the Holocaust, and wrote the United Nations Genocide Convention in 1948, said that the Armenian genocide was a genocide, and that is how he got interested in the subject.

He (Raphael Lemkin) said this on a CBS TV interview, and here is the actual video:

I find it very crude of the Turks to deny this. It goes to show why Turkey has not been let into the European Union, as it lacks Western civility and a sense of right and wrong.

The International Association of Genocide Scholars also has declared it Genocide and has also said that the Turks committed genocide against Christian Assyrians and Greeks during the time it was committing genocide against the Christians. Turkey is anti-Christian. It killed off the indigenous Christians and that is why it is majority Muslim today. We cannot let Turkey get any closer to Christianity because it is not a country that has our morals at all. I wish more people would understand what Turkey is.

David (anonymous profile)
February 10, 2014 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All one has to do is visit Wikipedia and type Armenian Genocide to get all of the facts with references. Unlike the the Turkish side. I am part German and part Turkish. I hate myself for being Turkish.

Keyser_Soze (anonymous profile)
February 10, 2014 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

With the December 17, 2013 verdict on "Perincek vs Switzerland" by the European Courts of Human Rights, it is established that the events of 1915 cannot be proven to be genocide and cannot be compared to Jewish Holocaust. What's more, silencing contra-genocide views is a direct violation of the human right to freedom of thought, expression, and speech--a stance contra-genocide scholars and writers were advocating all along.

With this remarkable milestone of a court verdict, the Turkish side of the story, long dismissed, ignored, and/or censored, will now finally be heard. Armenian agitation, propaganda, insurgency, deception, terrorism, treason, revolts, territorial demands, and the resulting Muslim, mostly Turkish, suffering and losses will be included in the debate for a balanced treatment of the Turkish-Armenian conflict. All this can be expected to lead to civilized dialogue and reasoned debate which, in turn, may finally produce closure based on the concepts of "shared responsibility," "shared pain," and "fair memory".

Kirlikovali (anonymous profile)
February 11, 2014 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

David: As you said; Rafael Lemkin the man who coined the word genocide, was born in 1901. He was 14 years old when the1915 events happened. But he never lived in the vicinity of the area. What opinion he formed about the Armenian suffering was based on second hand information from one sided stories.
One or hundred thousand people's opinion is not enough to overrule a legal verdict.
During the 1948 Convention, all countries' delegates noticed that they would all be guilty of this crime the way Raphael presented it in his speeches. So, Raphael Lemkin, himself had to leave out the 'warring parties' outside the definition of 'genocide' for the United Nations to ratify it as a law in 1948. All member countries accepted the legal definition on which the ECHR based its verdict upon.
World War-I (1914-1918) was fought over the land of the Ottoman Empire. While British and French armada was attacking from the West (see Galliipoli Wars, remembered every year on April 15 1915), the Russian army was attacking from the East of Anatolia (Armenian inhabitants devastated the city of Van in April 1915 in preparation for the Russian invasion). As written by Armen Garo (one of the leaders of the Armenian rebellion) in his book "Why Armenia Should be Free" printed by Baikar Press, Boston, 1918: 200,000 Armed Armenians fought valiantly for the success of Russian forces. Armen Garo himself was an arms supplier.
Without mentioning the number of Muslim inhabitants killed in the hands of the Armenian rebels, the Armenians have been distorting history, with sob stories and forgeries as if they are the First Christian Nation, etc. Luckily, some reasonable lawyers did not allow it.
Any war sounds like a genocide, if the dead of only one side is counted. The said events took place smack in the middle of World War I. The Ottoman Government did not have enough soldiers to fight the enemy armies, let alone enforce the law among civilians. The Muslim inhabitants of the area defended themselves against their Armenian neighbors who were aiding and abetting the invading Russian army forces. The Muslims fought for their livelihood. Since the area was heavily Muslim populated, the Armenians lost their rebel fighting.
When examined in its whole context, we should pay respect to all innocent peoples' death, be they Christian or Muslim.

Fatma (anonymous profile)
February 11, 2014 at 11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is about time Turkey recognizes the Armenian Genocide and move on. I hear nothing but double wrong equaling a right arguments that even a ninth grader knows in critical thinking class as blatantly wrong argument. These Turks are insulting American intelligence. The Swedish Court struck down the law not because it denied the Armenian Genocide but under the pretext of Free Speech. Something Turks don't have in Turkey.

Keyser_Soze (anonymous profile)
February 12, 2014 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here are some Armenian American ARF members who fought against other Genocides and for America's Freedoms;

Turks are insulting the memories of these men who fought against genocides and for the right to Free Speech. The Turks think they can just come here and post their country's propaganda and no one will be the wiser because most Americans have a short memory and attention span.

Keyser_Soze (anonymous profile)
February 12, 2014 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Military, Foreign Policy, and War Hitler’s Speech to the Commanders in Chief (August 22, 1939) U.S. Official documents give the full text of Hitler’s original speech. There is no “Armenian or Jew” in it.

ulugen (anonymous profile)
February 13, 2014 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You are full of sh** ulugen. So what does it mean? [if what you say is true (highly doubtful). Do you mean that the Genocide and Holocaust didn't occur because there was no mentioning of Jews or Armenians in a Hitler Speech? You are the reason why we need better education in California so as to eliminate such block headed thinking as 2 wrongs equaling a right. I am glad that the Genocide is being left to historians to be taught in schools.

Keyser_Soze (anonymous profile)
February 13, 2014 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Keyser_Soze, please, pick your terms properly and check what was written. There is no mentioning of Armenians in Hitler's speech, the claim about Hitler recalling Armenians anywhere in his speeches is plain false. And yes, public in California needs to be educated about historical events. But not with agenda pushed by Armenian-American legislators and invented by Armenian-American lobby, but by independent scholars who uphold dignity and universal justice over petty ethnic-nationalist ideals. AB 659 is another contribution in hate mongering and racist brainwashing of our children, something every American should be concerned about.

ulugen (anonymous profile)
February 17, 2014 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ulugen, you should know that the Independent fact checks each and every article before publication. Hitler did refer to the Armenians in his speech after invading Poland. I suggest that you do proper historical research, before you call any fact into question. There are thousands upon thousands of historical evidence, which proves the Armenian genocide. It would be impossible for you to refute each and every one. I have read the comments here and the only "ethnic-nationalist ideals," "hate mongering," and "racist brainwashing" going on that you have mentioned are coming from the comments of the Turkish people. I have never read more hateful comments against the Armenians, Christianity, History, or American Values, than what I have read here, from your people. Nothing will ever convince you of the truth... not the historical evidence of nations; survivors; court decisions; or even the confessions of atrocities taken from your own people. It seems to be ingrained in you. So be it. The world does not agree with you.

Herodotus (anonymous profile)
February 18, 2014 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ulugen, you are either delusional or take the American public as chumps. Thank GOD the bill passed where history will be taught / presented by independent historians/scholars who have universally agreed the occurrence of the Armenian Genocide.

The only hold outs as to the Genocide are by a few paid stooges that total about 1%. They are not independent as their incomes and titles are heavily influenced from the Turkish government. Their skewed view is what Ulugen is pushing for under the false pretense of free speech.

Even mentioning the Armenian Genocide in Turkey could land you in PRISON! That does not seem to be an objective approach to the issue.

Keyser_Soze (anonymous profile)
February 19, 2014 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Herodotus, putting " Armenians, Christianity, History, or American Values, " in the same line is a racist attempt to gain sympathy for your claims. Because Christianity, History and American Values have nothing to do with the essence of Armenian-Turkish conflict, which boils down to the foreign territorial expansion dispute.

Keyser Soze, the bill was introduced and sponsored by an Armenian-American Assemblyman and pushed forth by the Armenian-American special interest groups. Would these associations be necessary if your claims were universally recognized or accepted? Again AB 659 is nothing more than an insult against the freedom of speech and thought, stripping our children of the right to learn both sides of story and draw their own conclusions, instead forcing them to learn only one version. Do you really want to convince us that this the way to teach history?

ulugen (anonymous profile)
February 21, 2014 at 1:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

another article published on money of Armenian diaspora on purpose to mislead audience. There was no genocide. Armenians are not first christian nation. In fact, I do not consider Armenians as a Christian nation at all, since too many representatives of this nation lie and kill etc. Armenia has occupied 20 % of Azerbaijan, and Armenia is responsible for ethnic cleansing and genocide of civilians in Khojaly
I hope "Independent" will publish the true story of 1915 events, there is a lot of research abut it, for ex S.A. Weems "ARMENIA SECRETS OF “CHRISTIAN” TERRORIST STATE "

See also Professor Stanford Shaw; Professor Heath Lowry; Professor Justin McCarthy. Their books based on archives.
Here is the document signed by 70 worlds known historians stated that “ Armeniangenocide 1915” never existed.
Declaration Made By American Academicians (May 19, 1985)

rauf (anonymous profile)
February 21, 2014 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

1) Armenian Genocide is not "legally" founded . Because there is no court decision of any competent court as is required by the " Genocide Convention of 1948. Moreover, European Human Rights Court (EHRC) the highest international tribunal in the world, ruled, in its verdict for Perincek v. Switzerland case on 17 December 2014 that " genocide is precisely defined legal concept"- neither political- parliamentarian, governmental, institutional)- nor historical concept, to exist. Particularly historians' research, the verdict emphasizes, is "open by definition to discussion and debate , without necessarily giving rise to final conclusions to the assertion of objective and absolute truths.

3) L.A. Times assessment " the Armenian genocide was the first genocide of that century is nothing but a"journalese; therefore of no value.

4) Teaching a non-occured " genocide" in schools is an offence not only to children and men, yet particularly to Armenians and Turks. Such practices serve nothing than scattering hate seeds among children and teachers.. It is a criminal offence!

5) Negation of history? Whose history, which history?
Besides,Isn't historians' research, are "open by definition to discussion and debate , without necessarily giving rise to final conclusions to the assertion of objective and absolute truths".
Moreover there is no consensus among the historians as regards the occurrence of an " Armenian genocide" and a Turkish one.

7 )I love museums and churches where I see and enjoy (however mostly religious) art, architecture, music and mankind. Yet if one is called "Museum of Tolerence" and does not give place to the sufferings of Ottoman Muslims, together with that of Armenians, it is not a Museum of Tolerence.

8) I would sugggest, , that Armenians face properly with their own history as of 1890's , starting courageously, probably by reading e.g. Mehmet Perincek's, SS Aya's works. The Former's books being couched on he basis of Rusian -Armenian sources in Russian and the Soviet archives are most instructive.
b- leave thinking of agressive policies " to gain victory at all cost" , and openly regret and apologize i.a. for old violences perpetrated. ; kincluding killing of innocent Turkish diplomats as of 1975.

Why Armenians and Turks, leaving aside the mutually tragic events of 1915s, shouldn't play their existing common chords of many colours, share mutual sufferings, and a variety of common values displaying determination for a common peaceful living they had shared for 8 centuries, and for an ideal aiming at " peace at home , peace in the world" starting with securing peace and love for their inner spaces?

Here is a seldomly known lovely saying in Turkish. I feel it to say:: "Benim Arap oynadi" - meaning I am having a spell of good hope(luck)-

Who knows, may be we borrowed it from our Armenian friends who would not retort : "benim Arap oynamadi"!

Ülkü Başsoy

ulkubassoy (anonymous profile)
February 21, 2014 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

From the Museum of Tolerance, Los Angeles:

"Between 1915-1923, an estimated 800,000 to 1.5 million Armenians, approximately half the Armenian population living in the Ottoman Empire, were killed in massacres or died as a consequence of military deportations, forced marches and mass starvation in one of the first genocidal campaigns of the 20th century.

The Armenians, natives of Asia Minor, are an ancient culture dating back to more than 2000 years. This minority population has experienced a long record of persecution and second-class citizenship, including a series of massacres between 1894-1896 under Sultan Abdul-Hamid II. The disintegration of the Ottoman Empire, followed by the outbreak of World War I, escalated racial and nationalist ideologies, and persecution of the Armenians reached unprecedented levels. The political party in power, the Young Turks, began a campaign of marginalization, forced conversion, and expulsion of the Armenian population. At the start of the war, Armenian men were conscripted into the military. By 1915 these men were forced to disarm and then assembled into labor battalions where they were starved, beaten and often worked to death.

On April 24, 1915, the government arrested over 300 prominent Armenian political, community and intellectual leaders in Constantinople. All were sent to prison and summarily executed. Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were massacred and drowned in the Euphrates River and Black Sea. The vast majority of the Armenian population was deported to the Syrian desert; many Armenians died during these forced marches from thirst, starvation, and exposure. Survivors faced dispossession, the loss of a centuries-old heritage, and a scattering of people. Writing in Red Cross Magazine in March 1918, Henry Morgenthau, Sr., American Ambassador to Turkey from 1913-1916, wrote that: "None of the fearful horrors perpetrated in the various zones of war can compare with the tragic lot of the Armenians."

For additional historical information:

Charny, Israel. Encyclopedia of Genocide. (2 vols) Santa Barabara, CA: ABC-Clio, 1999.
Dadrian, Vahakn. The History of the Armenian Genocide: Ethnic Conflict from the Balkans to Anatolia to the Caucasus. Providence, RI: Berghahn Books, 1995.
Hovannisian, Richard G., ed. The Armenian Genocide: History, Politics, Ethics. (New York: St. Martin's Press), 1992.
Miller, Donald and Lorna Touryan Miller. Survivors: An Oral History of the Armenian Genocide. Berkeley, Los Angeles, and London: University of California Press, 1993.
Winter, Jay and Baggett, Blaine. The Great War and the Shaping of the 20th Century. New York and London: Penguin Studio, 1996. (Also companion video)"

Herodotus (anonymous profile)
February 24, 2014 at 12:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To the poster Hakan @ Siktir git you Hayvan. I am sick and tired of traitors and backstabbing to these warmongering Armenian supremacists who want us to accept half truths. We don't deny the fact that Armenians suffered, yes, there were Armenian unarmed civilians who died. But what happened was is, there was a very brutal civil war where European Imperialists provoked Armenian terrorism and insurgencies in Anatolia, in which they pressured Armenian forces to grab/snitch land from Turkey. Let's not forget Armenian forces were intentionally bombing Sunni and Alevi villages in Turkey to create their "Greater Armenia" from Sea to Sea.

What about how an Armenian Doctor named Zori Balayan written a book called the "Revival Of Our Souls" where he glorified the decapitation of a 13 year old Azeri child, when Armenian forces land grabbed Karabagh region, forcefully expelled 750k Azerbaijanis from Karabakh, and how Armenian forces commited a Massacre in Khojaly.

My Turkish brother, we cannot be guilt-ridden and cave into the demands of vicious Turkophobes and Turk-haters. Don't be like that phony scholar, Taner Akcam, who was a former Communist and pro-terrorist in his youth and ends up getting paid/bribed by the Zoryan Institute to slander his own native country. We have many threats against our country. The Armenian lobby is trying to represent one side of the story via half truths to divide/break up our borders. PKK terrorists are trying to break up our borders, by launching attacks on cities, drug trafficking, bombing towns, rioting in streets and whenever Turkey defends itself (like we used to in the past, but not anymore, since our bone-head Prime Minister is caving into the demands of the PKK and BDP) the media condemns us. We cannot be condemned by defending our country from PKK terrorists and Armenian imperialist plots to break up our borders. Let's not cave into the demands of Turk-haters and anti-Turkish racist and bigots and let's fight them until they surrender and live with the realities of the Lausanne treaty.

(Btw, I have no problem with Kurds, because there are many Turkish citizens of Kurdish origin who fight for their country, Turkey. Turgut Ozal (former PM and President), Kemal Kilicdaroglu (CHP Party Leader), Huseyin Celik (corrupt AKP member), Egemen Bagis (corrupt AKP member), and many politicians and army leaders who are pro-Turkey and anti separatism).

Anonymous_User (anonymous profile)
March 23, 2014 at 4:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Doctor Dan@ Erdogan is actually working with the enemies of Turkey. He is being a lackey of the EU, who wants to see Turkey weakened and divided via the illegitimate, unjust, unfair, racist and Turkophobic Sevres Treaty. Erdogan is collaborating with Barzani's KRG government to create an independent Kurdish region inside Southeast Turkey and is working with countries which want to harm Turkey.

If Erdogan is such a nationalist, why does the police in Turkey tear gas people who celebrate Independence Day, every May 19th. But why does people who rally for a baby killer named Abdullah Ocalan who killed 30,000 people, get to have their own rallies. Because Erdogan is collaborating with the EU, PKK and Barzani to dismantle Turkish nationalism. Why is it that Erdogan has locked up a Nationalist and Socialist Historian, Dogu Perincek, but at the same time, he tear gassed peaceful protestors last June when they were protesting the destruction against a park. Why is it that Erdogan is getting outsmarted by the PKK terrorist group, and their political wing, the BDP party, who declare that they want to break up Turkey's borders. Erdogan a Nationalist? Tfff, yeah freaking right!

If Erdogan was a nationalist, he would have had a more effective and tough stance on the PKK. He would not still beg to join the EU (btw, even if Turkey pulled out of Cyprus, then you have Turkish speaking citizens of Cyprus ethnically cleansed by ROC forces, as well as make dangerous concessions on the Armenian question and the Kurdish issues, the EU will say no), because EU is ruled by Communists, Marxists and Socialists and they don't like the fact that Nationalism is strong in Turkey. That is why they overthrowed at least a somewhat decent PM (Bulent Ecevit) and replaced him with an idiot Georgian from the Black Sea (Recep Tayyip Erdogan). Because Ecevit saved Turkish-Cypriots from extinction and almost brought the PKK terror group to extinction. (Sadly the EU pressured Turkey to stop Ocalan's execution. That is sad considering Abdullah Ocalan killed 30,000 babies. Why can't Turkey have a right to punish war criminals and the USA has a right to go after Saddam, Milosevic, Bin Laden, and Hitler. Talk about double standards). The EU did not like the fact someone who was effective in issues concerning defending Turkey and Turkish rights.

You asked about the Gulen Movement. The Gulen Movement for a long time supported the corrupt AKP party in Turkey and now they are enemies. They are also called the Cemaat Movement, they run lots of Charter Schools that are corrupt all over the world, they run Interfaith Dialogue institutes and they have a huge worldwide movement led by Fethullah Gulen who lives in Pennsylvania. They also own lots of Media and Companies in Turkey too (including the Zaman Newspaper). They actually have pretty nationalist views on issues relating to Turkey.

Anonymous_User (anonymous profile)
March 23, 2014 at 4:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Keyser Soze@ First of all, why should Turks backstab their own country. Why do Turks need to acknowledge Armenian suffering and give up their lands that were rightfully won, after driving out European Imperialists who sought to break up their country (France, Italy, England, etc.) as well as Greek and Armenian nationalist who plotted to wipe Turkey off the map. Why do Turks need to ignore the fact that Armenian terrorists started rebelling in Turkey's border, committing acts of terrorism in Turkey's borders, bombing villages in Turkey and so on? The fact is, Armenians need to acknowledge that they started a revolt in Turkey, plotted a land grab (which lead to unarmed casualties on both sides) and drop their territorial claims on Turkey, which in reality is a plot to destroy Turkey.

Anonymous_User (anonymous profile)
March 23, 2014 at 6:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Keyser Soze@ You even said that you were half-Turkish. Guess what, I have nationalist views on all Turkey related issue (and am proud to do so). I was not born in Turkey, but live in So Cal. Where do you live? Because I am not born in Turkey, but was raised in So Cal. I have a right to post as many facts as possible. Including, how Armenian terrorists plotted a land grab, bombed and attacked Sunni + Alevi villages all over Anatolia. Also, Armenian terrorists committed agression against Azerbaijan, snitched Karabakh from Azerbaijan, expelled 750k Azerbaijanis and those refugees did not get one dime, cent or penny of funding.

Turkish suffering (unarmed Turkish, Kurdish, Alevi and Sunni) cannot be ignored. Armenian Supremacists need to stop warmongering, stop hating all things Turkish, and stop being indocrtinated with radical/fanatical nationalism from Day 1. I will also fight against the Greater Armenia ideaology, which is no different then the Nazi Germany ideaology. I also will fight against the lies of the PKK terrorist group as well too, especially. You cannot shove guilt down my throat or you cannot stop me from fighting against all warmongerers who seek to break up Turkey's borders.

Eventually, people will wake up to these people and the tides will go agianst them in the future.

Anonymous_User (anonymous profile)
March 23, 2014 at 7:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)


Armenians love to start the clock on April 24, 1915, but they conveniently forget to tell you they had killed 120,000 Muslim, mostly Turks, by the end of 1914 alone (see page 34, Pope, Stephen Wheal Elizabeth-Anne, "The MacMillan Dictionary of the First World War," London, 1995) and another 80,000 during the VAN rebellion (see McCarthy, Arslan, Taşkıran, and Turan, "The Armenian Rebellion at Van." Salt Lake City, UT, University of Utah, 2006. )

These horrific numbers come to 1.33 % of the total Ottoman population when the first year of WWI was not even completed yet. Imagine this: 1.33% of American today would be 4.4 million Americans. What would America do if Armenians (or any other people) killed 4.4 million Americans today? Would America stop at TERESET (Temporary Resettlement) like the Ottoman Empire did? Or would another Nagasaki or Hiroshima be on the table? Armenians today are screaming, crying, lying, and pounding your kitchen table with their shoes every single day, playing victim. But the facts tell us a different story; a story of persistent propaganda, violent agitation, systematic terrorism, bloody revolts, supreme treason, territorial demands, raids, assassinations, bombings, murders, and more. Armenians took up arms against their own government and killed their Muslim neighbors and fellow Ottoman citizens. What's even worse, they heinously handed over the city of Van that they had cleansed of Muslims to the invading Russian armies and then joined thm in search of more Turks to kill. Turks only defended their home. The homeland security measure the Turks took to mitigate this serious wartime military threat was temporary resettlement (TERESET) of the Armenian insurgents and their supporters.

Kirlikovali (anonymous profile)
January 12, 2015 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

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