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Families of Isla Vista Victims Call Out Sheriff’s Office


Thursday, June 26, 2014
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In an interview with the Washington Post, the parents of Elliot Rodger’s three stabbing victims said they’re frustrated by how the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Office has handled the case, criticizing the agency for not yet telling them how their sons were killed over a month ago. “How did one boy do this? Our sons, there were three of them,” said Junan Chen, the father of 19-year-old George Chen, in the interview. “We wonder, were our boys drugged?” Sheriff’s spokesperson Kelly Hoover told the Post that the department “owes it to the victim’s families and to the public to not prematurely release information before we have all of the facts in this case.” Sgt. Mark Williams told The Santa Barbara Independent, “We are looking at approximately another month before the investigation is complete.”

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Independent Discussion Guidelines

So what's worse? Making statements early that may be incorrect or waiting till the investigations are done for the most accurate answers?

Validated (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The question of how the slightly-built Rodger could overpower and stab to death three adult males has been there from the beginning, but it was overshadowed by the Martinez anti-gun performance. The "facts" of the stabbing were in Rodger's apartment and it is preposterous for the Sheriff's department to be waiting for some other "facts" to come in.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dewdly you're an idiot. The victims were asleep. You are proving to be a truly dusgusting individual, too bad you weren't in IV that night.. to see for yourself if not get shot at then we'd all be spared your mental illness. Than again maybe not. Don't let the chemtrails bite you on your way to the sanitarium.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When something as important as getting re-elected is involved, seeing to the needs of the victims parents might seem trivial. Especially when we have taxed the people to the tune of two hundred million dollars to build a jail that could house three hundred mentally ill inmates!

touristunfriendly (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's the plan: keep everything as hush-hush as possible for as long as possible so that the whole thing turns media-stale, Bill Brown's political wins remain unsullied, the Board of Supervisors retain their positions, and no controversy affects the summer tourist biz.

Shameful and clearly corrupt.

Beachgirl77 (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Dewdly you're an idiot. The victims were asleep. You are proving to be a truly dusgusting individual, too bad you weren't in IV that night.."

Wow, so apparently you were right there in the apartment, how did you get out?? Why didn't you stop him?

Dewdly is just asking the same questions the parents of the victims are asking. There's nothing wrong with asking questions.

My theory was that they were playing WoW at the time or something, having headphones on and being enthralled in a raid can be more distracting than being asleep.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Playing World of Warcraft is pretty much the same as being asleep. :)

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken_Volok,

The Sheriff's department has not said the stabbing victims were "asleep" and even if had "explained" the stabbings that way, the parents are not satisfied. I suppose you judge them to be "disgusting individuals" for asking the same question I asked.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The way they handle unanswered questions and contradictions in staged events is to let the public speculate - e,g, "they were asleep"; "they were playing WoW"; "all three had headphones on";"they were drugged or poisoned"; "each politely waited his turn", and this will go on until the public accepts one of the speculations as fact and moves on.

If we don't hear more from the parents the public will assume that the Sheriff's department has done a thorough forensic investigation and has explained everything to them. The public will not get any explanation as the Sheriff will judge any revelation about the "pretty horrific" crime to be insensitive toward the grieving parents.

The Sheriff's department is not waiting for "facts" they are waiting for the public to fill in the blanks with their movie-watching "experience".

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

These are false flag attacks. The terror is committed by the DHS in order to disarm the American public. The reason the roomates were murdered was to remove any one that would contradict the official storyline, as to his mental condition, who he was meeting with, the men that visited him, what Elliot may have shared.

There was a scheduled drill for Santa Barbara City College the following week and it was canceled.

A drill was conducted the week prior as a walk through when the SWAT team went out because of an alleged gunman in the Isla Vista vicinity.

View the research that was done on Sandy Hook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TImCVU...

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

talk about conspiracy theories, the public has been left with theorizing how the young Asian men were killed, some alleged that they were drugged, others say that they were murdered in their sleep.

The families have a right to view the bodies and a coroners report should indicate the cause of death.

...and the Sheriff's official report on Elliot was that he obvious shot himself. Nothing obvious about it. Not even blood was visible in or around the car. The point of entry of the bullet should be noted.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

it would take at least 1 dozen stabbings to kill a person and at least 3 dozen to kill 3 young men and there's no guarantee that all would die. At least one of the men should have survived the stabbing and there should have been a struggle.

Also, self-inflicted wounds are highly likely to occur, the blade breaks, the handle breaks, the hand slips off the handle and onto the blade, and the swing motion would inflict wounds on the alleged murderer.

A timeline of the killngs is non-existent. Everyone's attention was directed to the drive-by.

Anyone old enough to remember the OJ Simpson crime scene? Blood every where and evidence markers everywhere.

Not even the Hazmat team was called to clean up the crime scene at the convenient store. when was the last time that employees were tasked with cleaning up a crime scene?

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ya I agree, pretty much everything about this incident, to me, screams staged event. Especially the way the media handled it and how the whole thing was channeled into an anti-gun rights demonstration.

My spidey senses started tingling the second I started watching the retribution video when it was released right here on the comment section, just after midnight on the night of the shooting. Yes, I'm sure the incident looked 'real' to everybody in IV, that was the point.

I was not aware of the drill that was being planned at City College the next week, but they always schedule drills around staged events so thanks for sharing... in fact, I'm really not sure how I missed it!! BAD conspiracy theorist!!

"Coincidentally, the shooting took place the same day as SBCC celebrated its graduation ceremonies and just one day before the campus was slated for a massive emergency-preparedness drill by multiple public-safety agencies in case of some hypothetical disaster. That disaster, tragically, was not nearly hypothetical enough."

http://independent.com/news/2014/may/...

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Will you idiots just put your tinfoil hats back on.

Validated (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

While the perp is dead, and got his due in most people's view, in the tradition of Sgt. Friday, just a few questions:

The Deputies, dispatcher and social worker did not view the earlier film that prompted the psychiatrist's or parents' earlier call before they visited Rodger?

How long before the shooting spree did the friends die?

Did "stabbed" mean their throats were slashed? A more efficient m.o. if they were sitting on the couch playing a video game.

Do we know for certain that Rodger shot himself?

Although IV was crawling with law enforcement from surrounding departments, all efforts were not made to preserve the crime scene and evidence? People were wandering around it, and placing fingers and flowers in the bullet holes, picking up whatever. In other possibly similar cases, the whole area possibly involved is cordoned for as long as it takes, and every blood spot, bullet, casing, bullet hole, scuff, errant flipflop is thoroughly documented.

"...Just the facts."

Good thing that the parents are stepping up. They sound as though they will be truly methodical and thorough. Perhaps with the aid of the Attorney General; perhaps not.

All this with the stipulation that the Foot Patrol Deputies involved in the incident are heroes of the first order.

FirewindII (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 4:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Validated, please share your "theories" about the young Asian men that were murdered and your reasons for having store employees clean up a crime scene and your satisfaction with the explanation that Elliot "obviously" shot himself.

And why did Elliot walk away from a house full of sorority girls whom were his target and instead chose to randomly kill people?

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Will you idiots just put your tinfoil hats back on."

What is tinfoil? I know what aluminum foil is, I don't think I even know what you are speaking of, does it actually exist? Can I buy it somewhere? Do you have any?

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 4:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Over-writing several of the above comments.

FirewindII (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Will you idiots just put your tinfoil hats back on."

What is tinfoil? I know what aluminum foil is, I don't think I even know what you are speaking of, does it actually exist? Can I buy it somewhere? Do you have any?

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 4:19 p.m.

Yes, we sell them, our office is at 543. S. State Street, Santa Barbara, Ca, 93463. Here is the link with all the information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tin...

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction,

You should start with the premise that no one is killed in a false flag operation because if and when the ruse is discovered the agencies involved do not want to be responsible or liable for death or injury. It isn't illegal to conduct a drill using compliant law enforcement and medical people. or to hire crisis actors, "witnesses", grieving parents, and use the news media to disseminate a phony story. If no one is hurt then there can be no claims for damages.

In the case at hand we should assume that the Chinese students and their parents are fictional - that is the one thing that explains the preposterous stabbing tale. It is bad script writing, not superman.

Real events have no fictional elements. The presence of one fiction, no matter how small, is enough to judge the whole thing a fiction.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

these false flag attacks do have a tendency to go HOT! the crisis actors are given very limited information, as is done in classified military projects. the information is compartmentalized and an unfortunate participant becomes the live target as was done in the Boston Marathon Bombing, and forced to flee (perhaps still beleiving it is a drill), and the live manhunt pursuit unfolds.

The Lone Gunman phenomenon is equated with inside job. There are no lone gunman. This scenario serves a very practical purpose. The culprit is dead, and all investigations are halted. The public is relieved and saftey is restored. It is used on presidential assassinations, too.

All the Lone Gunman scenarios contradict the natural expectations of a real tragedy.

The local authorites have been compromised by DHS. They have been given the script and ordered to follow in step. Nothing about this investigation has followed conventional norms.

Make note of my prediction, if the Asian young men were real, the bodies have been cremated without the consent of the next of kin.

Demand an independent investigation

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If the Chinese young men were real, then their parents can be expected to sue for wrongful death. A major characteristic of false flag operations is the total absence of lawsuits and insurance claims. We are always told how litigious our society is, and yet when a legitimate cause of action arises from Sandy Hook, Aurora, the Boston Marathon bombing, etc. no one sues.

With 9/11 the U.S. government indemnified the airlines that purportedly allowed hijackers onto their planes, thereby relieving the airline's insurers of paying claims as they always do, no matter the cause of the crash. Why would the U.S. government use taxpayer money to foot the bill owed by the insurers? By taking insurers out of the loop they were able to maintain control of the information about claims - including the posibility that there were no claims.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 7:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I’m delighted that this discussion has taken a serious tone and so far transpired into a civil debate.

The notion that the authorities would be held accountable for criminal behavior is adorable. Criminal scandals have plagued all branches of government since the Reagan administration and have now reached an unprecedented level from Fast and Furious committing acts of terror in Mexico by supplying the drug cartels with assault weapons to fraudulent scientific research on climate change by the EPA, to illegal surveillance of the American populace, to assassinations of American citizens, a Secret Kill List looked over by the US President, criminal wars on sovereign nations, the intimidation of citizens by IRS, to banking fraud by the Federal Reserve, to extrajudicial killings committed by the police, to current debate on the use of drone strikes on the American mainland, to corporations being granted more rights and protection than natural citizens, and still not one criminal prosecution.

There still exists a possibility that there will be criminal prosecution of a government agency with the fiduciary duty to protect its citizens found to be involved in criminal acts.

For those still in the dark about the Federal Reserve, like the DHS, these institutions are privately owned corporations.

In the Sandy Hook scenario the alleged victims were paid hush monies presented to the unsuspecting American public as genuine donations for the surviving victims.

Rather than getting distracted by debating the semantics of whether a false flag attack would include real murders, and we agree that it is highly likely that the Elliot Rodger mass murder was in fact a drill and no one was murdered as was the case in Sandy Hook, what is the political agenda?

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For whatever it might be worth:

'Unanswered Questions in the Isla Vista CA Shootings'
http://memoryholeblog.com/2014/06/01/...

Dr James F Tracy
Memory Hole
1 June 2014

I've only skimmed the article. Regarding the comments, I've not even skimmed; surely many will be garbage, but with 200 of them, there's undoubtedly some useful material there as well.

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 8:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

John, thanks for sharing. The report merits attention. Too many unanswered questions, the investigation deviates from conventional procedures and too many contradictions. It doesn't sit well with rational thinking people.

These serial killings follow a pattern, a template of sorts. The common denominator is the Lone Gunman scenario and the murdered gunman. Case closed. All official investigations come to screeching halt.

The same goes for the Las Vegas gunman Jerad Miller. The official report was that the wife killed Jerad and suicided herself, and subsequently it was determined the officer killed them both.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 9:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"For those still in the dark about the Federal Reserve, like the DHS, these institutions are privately owned corporations."

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.ne...

There's an Isla Vista joke in there somewhere.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 26, 2014 at 10:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Massachusetts SWAT teams claim they’re private corporations, immune from open records laws

Some of these LECs have also apparently incorporated as 501(c)(3) organizations. And it’s here that we run into problems. According to the ACLU, the LECs are claiming that the 501(c)(3) status means that they’re private corporations, not government agencies. And therefore, they say they’re immune from open records requests.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/th...

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LAX-TSA Hoax.

The unsuspecting american public is directed to view a very rehersed drill and the mainstream media broadcasts it as an actual event. The dummy in the wheel-chair is quite obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WwXYs...

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow this comment section has become a moronic convergence of c/t bull crap.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Herschel Greenspan:
"Wow this comment section has become a moronic convergence of c/t bull crap."

A most powerful refutation, Herschel.

https://paulwilkinson.files.wordpress...

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Wow this comment section has become a moronic convergence of c/t bull crap."

Agreed.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok, so then tabatha or Herschel maybe you can explain why they were planning a government run safety drill in the week after the Elliot Rodger massacre, they had a live shooter drill scheduled the morning of Sandy Hook, the LAX shooter began right smack in the middle of a live shooter drill, Aurora CO was holding a live shooter drill around when that shooting occurred, Boston Bombing happened during a live drill where they were sending people around with fake backpack bombs, 9/11 happened while there were two military drills taking place that took our air force away from the area and also confused NORAD and the FAA with dozens of fake hijacking blips on the radar which they were unable to distinguish from the actual hijacked planes (also incidentally they had their phone lines malfunctioning and could not communicate), London Subway bombing happened in the middle of a bomb drill at the same time and the same place, Madrid Spain bombing was during a drill, Oslo shooter was during a drill, Oklahoma City Bombing was during a drill (which took ATF agents, the supposed target of Timothy McVeigh, off the premises during the bombing), Virginia Tech shooting was during a drill, and the Eastlake High School shooting was during a drill. There are probably more I have failed to mention.

I guess you could chalk it up to "coincidence", but unlike you guys most people aren't that naive and will actually QUESTION the authority once hearing this information. Insinuating that they might be crazy or stupid for questioning does not help champion your cause. An intellectual or factual rebuttal would be much more effective if you can come up with one.. But if you could I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be posting a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with the material in these posts.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Look here C/T tools, when you have an extraordinary claim you need extraordinary proof not a collection of fool assed assumptions that make no logical sense or reality. You should stick to something more realistic like say finding Bigfoot. For now I am happy just to point and laugh.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So what is your theory exactly, that people who commit these atrocities purposely plan their attacks during government drills? Or that government drills constantly happen and we just don't know it? Or that it is all a big coincidence that pretty much every major atrocity is associated with a government drill?

I'd like to hear some of this "logic" that you believe you possess.

Also, I'd like to hear your definition of an 'extraordinary claim'. Operation Northwoods was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the 60s and the plan was to create fake Cuban terror incidents on US soil in order to start a war with Cuba. One of their plans was to shoot down a drone airplane that had a list of fake college students on it and blame it on Cuban terrorists. It is all outlined and available for you to read at the NSA archive.

The only thing that stopped all this from happening was President Kennedy's non-approval, it was not signed by the President. That was probably part of the reason they assassinated him. But the fact is they have planned these types of incidents before and the government is constantly being caught doing really bad things. So this claim of yours that what we are claiming is "extraordinary" is just total BS.

I laugh at your lack of reasoning abilities, so don't think this is a one way street.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loon I am going to help you out here because you clearly cannot see the forest only trees. The military and emergency service providers train by using drills all the time. Your constant logical failing is one of false causality. Correlation does not mean causation . I am sure that you are familiar with Occam's Razor. You seem to have the complete opposite way of coming to a conclusion. You always assume that the most complicated, insane explanation is the most logical. Let's call it Loon's Chainsaw.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That's right Validated, tin foil is not the true term as loons pointed out. Get it right bro, it's ALUMINUM FOIL HATS that keep the neutron pellets away! Come on man, any conspiracy believing truther knows this! Now chemtrails, a whole different story.

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@loonpt,

Ordinary people are very reluctant to move out of the comfort zone in which they trust their government. They do not want to see that both parties in our system are controlled by unseen forces, so when Obama underwrites the Bush administration's 9/11 tale it means that 19 suicidal Muslims, controlled from a cave in Afghanistan, hijacked four planes and crashed three into the WTC and the Pentagon, because they "hate our freedom". Obama's acquiecense makes it impossible for Democrats to entertain any other explanation.

Every president since the two Kennedys were assassinated has had the opportunity to unseal hidden records and re-open investigations, but none has done so. Their reluctance to question the lone nut theories signals the public to do the same. The imprimatur of the president is an invaluable tool of thought control. How can anyone question the Sandy Hook "shooting" or the Boston Marathon "bombing" when Obama speaks so movingly about "beautiful little kids"?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Seems the discussion group Gestapo has made its presence and is putting a halt to any civil discussion.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oooo AHHHHHHH unseen forces! Must be teh Bildeburgers, or teh ZOG! Soros must be behind this... Rockefellahs? Illuminati! Ahh the sheeple who will save the sheeple? It must be the brave truthers here at teh Indy that can move out of their comfort zone of common sense and take us to a paranoid, bizzaro world where every thing that happens is guided by mysterious evil forces. Teh stuupid is stong.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The military and emergency service providers train by using drills all the time."

Well if these drills are occurring as often as you say they are, then maybe they are occurring too much if they happen to always occur at the same time and same place as actual incidents themselves, which most often mimic the atrocity that actually occurs.

However your theory still has a lot of holes in it. Can you provide me with information about how often Sandy Hook held live shooter drills before the one that was supposed to be held the day that Sandy Hook had a live shooter? Can you provide me with how many times NORAD held drills where they had dozens of fake hijacked aircraft blips that were all headed to crash into major targets such as the WTC and the Pentagon plugging up their live feeds? Can you tell me how many bomb drills they had at OKC Federal Building before they held the one the day that Timothy McVeigh decided to bomb OKC Federal Buildings? I could go on, but you get my point, and I would like to see the data so perhaps I could start coming up with some statistics as to the probability of these events and drills all occurring simultaneously. I'm pretty sure the probability is somewhere near 1 in 12 trillion, yet you say I'm the one not following Occam's Razor?? Think about it, do some basic math.

Part of the problem is you don't even know what us folks are trying to do. All we are doing is asking questions and trying to demand some answers, and until the general public starts doing more of the same it won't get done and these events will keep occurring and our rights will continue to erode. Once people actually start asking these questions and demanding more answers and we force the issue, the proof that you are looking for in many of these incidents will be revealed. The problem is people like you and other people who don't care one way or another just buying the mainstream media story tale and not asking the tough questions that will lead us to the truth.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No one has mentioned unseen forces. No mentioned Bildeburgers, or the ZOG! No one mentioned Soros or Rockefellahs? Illuminati!

Give us your theory about the murdered asian young men. Tell us why the crime scene was not secured. Why hasn't the an autopsy been provided? Why were the staff of the convinient store tasked with cleaning up the crime scene and not Hazmat.

Explain why these inquiries are absurd.

Put this to rest. Distinguish between your facts and your theory.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@the truthliesinthecontradiction Uhhhh your fellow traveler in mindless speculation Dewdly mentioned "unseen forces." What makes you think that the crime scene was not secured? There was much damage at the "convinient store" (sic) that did not need a hazmat team. That crime scene was also fully documented. Once that is done it gets cleaned up so the store can go about normal business. The SBSO will release their findings along with the autopsy results when they are ready not on your goofy timetable. Your uninformed speculation is absurd along with the half balked theories of your fellow c/t posters.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the crime scene was not secured. students were allowed to walk through and around the crime scenes, placing flowers in bullet holes. no ballsitic reports and allowing staff to clean up a crime scene is not conventional investigative procedure.

the investigation has been halted. no need to investigate any further. the culprit is dead. the point of entry of the bullet to the head should be disclosed. the cause of death of the three men should be disclosed, too, and a timeline for the murder.

its a high profile case. no need to delay it anymore.

your stating a fact that there was no need for Hazmat. can you site a source? or is this speculation?

you state that the crime scene was fully documented. site your source? or more speculation? the official report was that Elliot obviously shot himself. provide us the detail of the fully documented crime scene of the murdered victims in the apartment. or more speculation?

if the case is closed. no further investigation is need since it was a lone gunman, what is holding up the autopsy reports? feel free to speculate some more.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr, Greenspan, as I have stated before, there IS a conspiracy, its a Jewish-Muslim conspiricy, backed by the KKK, the Jehova's Witnesses, and the Lutheran Church (LCMS branch)

I know what I'm talking about because I listen to a lot of late night radio talk shows. Furthermore, psychodelic drugs have freed my mind and opened it to the truth. Also, its NOT the Rockefellers, but the "Rocker Fella's" as this video proves, so sit down, and put on your tin foil hat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERrgrC...

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey "Truth" distinguish between facts and what's happening in your head. There are professionals who can help you. Because you have to be seriously mentally ill or really trashy to even imply the shootings were staged.
I don't care who I offend, you lunatics you should hang your heads in shame but I also notice you're too cowardly to sign your real names. It's really sad how the Indy threads have been hijacked by the mentally ill brigade who lurk in the shadows. It's you a-holes who squashed any real debate in the OBama admin with your birther truther bilderberg bs and continue to dumb down the conversation and this news site. Go to the Alex Jones site where you're wanted.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken, help me out. Make your point about what is factual and what is delusional. Make your case and debunk what contradicts the official storyline.

Apparently there is a fully documented case somewhere that seems to leave out the details about the young asian men. the parents of the young men deserve an explanation. what is mentally disturbing to you about their loss and their need for closure?

the irony of those captured by the carrot being dangled in front of them as an official storyline, and referring to those that question the storyline as sheeple.

i hope you can debate better than just spitting out unfounded rhetoric loaded with insults.

why would an investigation not be completed if its deemed a lone gunman did it? what does it convey to the public when the culprit is a lone gunman?

how much work those it take for a coroner to identify the fatal blows that killed the young asian men?

what guns were fired at each location? do the ballsitics match the guns allegedly fired at each location?

Ken, feel free to provide your theories on this.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The likely scenario is that the investigation will support what Ken said--that he got the victims in their sleep.

Even if a plausible report is given, will the conspiracy theorists rest, or claim a cover-up from the Sheriff's Department?

billclausen (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey new troll truth guy. You drop a steaming pile like this:

"Rather than getting distracted by debating the semantics of whether a false flag attack would include real murders, and we agree that it is highly likely that the Elliot Rodger mass murder was in fact a drill and no one was murdered as was the case in Sandy Hook, what is the political agenda?"

And then you plea for other people to give you facts? If you really believe the statement above you should immediately get some professional help. For now just STFU.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

so we got billclausen's theory that the young asian men were murdered in their sleep. were they sleeping together in the same room, or were they in separate rooms, and perhaps speculate on the timeline.

after bill states his theory, ironically he continues to ridicule conspiracy theorists, unbeknownst to himself that he just joined the official conspiracy theory storyline that the men were neatly murdered in their sleep. this is only a theory that bill puts forth becasue he has absolutely nothing to back it up.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Herschel there are no facts available to support the official storyline. you like science don't you? prove that the murder's took place, site official coroner's reports, pictures of the deceased, fatal wounds, point of entry of the bullet. You have the opportunity to quash any inquiries that question the official storyline. please spare us the conjecture and speculations. its a murder case. it should rely on hard evidence.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Herschel, i'm not new. i've been around. i just don't particiapte in your political party politics. your paradigm is too small to garner my interest

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey troll, based on your comments here you believe that no one was even killed at Sandy Hook or Isla Vista. Do you have any proof? Of course not. You really are a pos.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey truth guy. My belief is that you are a huge pile of semi intelligent whale crap that washed up on the beach. Care to refute that?

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Herschel has just dumbed down the debate to a joust in insults. You win.

Perhaps you can site a coroner's report of the dead at Sandy Hook, all the funerals and locate them.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Herschel: Chill out, don't waste your time arguing with this person, you're playing into their game.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Whale crap, or even dolphincrap.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Truth troll everyone of your posts is a personal insult to the intelligence of the reader and to the memory of the dead of Sandy Hook and Isla Vista.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

so we got billclausen's theory that the young asian men were murdered in their sleep. were they sleeping together in the same room, or were they in separate rooms, and perhaps speculate on the timeline.

after bill states his theory, ironically he continues to ridicule conspiracy theorists, unbeknownst to himself that he just joined the official conspiracy theory storyline that the men were neatly murdered in their sleep. this is only a theory that bill puts forth becasue he has absolutely nothing to back it up.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 6:47 p.m

Billclausen is a Ballsitic (sic) conspiracy theorist who sadly, is brainwashed so badly he doesn't realize his mind is controlled by the Illuminati. Greenspan actually passed away 17 years ago in an accident, (he fell from a tree while attempting to steal squirrel nuts) and is blogging from Hell. (Where Satan keeps pestering him as to whether he should leave Saddam or stay in that abusive relationship) and Ken_Volok is working on another sequel to the Fritz The Cat series called "Fritz 'n' Grits: The story of Fritz and Larry The Cable Guy".

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Remember, when you look in the mirror, you see the enemy, and he is standing right behind you.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well Herschel, I suppose if you are right that the information will be forthcoming then maybe you can point me to the direction where that information has been available for Sandy Hook? Oh, I didn't think so. What kind of timetable are we talking about here?

"Hey troll, based on your comments here you believe that no one was even killed at Sandy Hook or Isla Vista."

Herschel, you have some reading comprehension issues here. They specifically said that first you have to assume nobody dies, until there is proof of it. Until then, it is just something that somebody said.

That means they believe that between 0 and 7 people including any number in between died until they see solid evidence to the contrary, or until it is available for public scrutiny.

Again, I just posted about Operation Northwoods where the government planned multiple real and fake false flag terrorist attacks back in the 60s and had it all signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This is not "insane" like you or anybody else here keeps saying, it is documented fact that these types of things have been planned, they happen on a consistent basis and it is very irresponsible to let it continue by attempting to silence the discussion on the matter. By silencing discussion, you help allow the next staged tragedy to happen, which may or may not kill innocent people but will definitely take away our rights.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@Herschel Grynzspan,

How do you explain Obama's total acceptance of the Bush administration's preposterous 9/11 tale and his pursuit of the war that story "justified"?

That Obama has unquestioningly accepted the 9/11 tale and continued the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq infers that there is a political power that supersedes the two parties and their front men. The face of that power is hidden, but its actions are not and that leads people to speculate about the who that is unseen.

Before you mock that effort to understand why Obama would go along with Rumsfeld's Afghan cave display and John Ashcroft's assertion that a five page document of instructions to the hijackers was found at the Pennsyvania crash site - please tell us how the newly elected president could be so gullible and feckless?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Truth troll everyone of your posts is a personal insult to the intelligence of the reader and to the memory of the dead of Sandy Hook and Isla Vista."

No, trying to silence discussion about what really caused the event is a personal insult to the intelligence of the reader and to the memory of the dead of Sandy Hook and Isla Vista. A reader can decide for themselves if they think somebody is wrong, they don't need people like you trying to make others think that if they side with us they will only be insulted and laughed at. They can figure out if they agree with us or not using their intellect, they don't need bullies trying to trying to enforce some fabricated social construct.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"That Obama has unquestioningly accepted the 9/11 tale and continued the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq infers that there is a political power that supersedes the two parties and their front men. The face of that power is hidden, but its actions are not and that leads people to speculate about the who that is unseen. "

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 7:34 p.m.

Dewdly makes a good point.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 8:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@billclausen, do you believe that 9/11 was a false flag operation organized by the US government?

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 10:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

H-G has nailed "the truth" guy, truther, birther, boring snot...troll.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 11:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"@billclausen, do you believe that 9/11 was a false flag operation organized by the US government?"

You makin a list HG?

That isn't what he said at all. What bill is rightly curious about, and I can tell his memory is in tact much better than many others here because of it, is the fact that the Democrats essentially put up a fake fight against the Bush admin on the war on terror. Now one could say that the reason they did that was to get elected, but then the question still begs to be asked: WHY do they continue the war on terror that they railed against the Bush administration for?? This is not some conspiracy theory, this is wide open extreme what the fuackery and most of the public seems to either suffering from significant memory loss or complete obliviousness to everything that is happening and the agenda that Obama continues to push through which is basically the same agenda Bush was pushing through.

So WHY the alignment between the two parties?

There's only one answer, HG, and that is conspiracy. Yes, there is conspiracy in government. Anybody who doesn't see it is not looking. The elite have their factions and their disagreements, but they are operating on the same plane and they are part of a relatively singular agenda that is driven by the big banks - banks that have financed both sides of pretty much every war for centuries.

So the details about whether there was any sort of assistance given to the 9/11 terrorists can be left up for debate, but the fact is there is a group with an agenda and 9/11 fit their agenda. It was the "New Pearl Harbor" that the neocons said was needed in 1999 in order to go take over the middle east. They laid out the plans, they covertly carried out the attack and dragged us all into war and took away our rights. It was planned that way from the beginning and that's why it happened. You're going to have to face up to it one of these days.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 12:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@Herschel,

Do you believe 19 Muslims armed with boxcutters, directed by Osama bin Laden from a cave in Afghanistan, hijacked four airliners and crashed them into the WTC, the Pentagon, and a Pennsylvania field - totally unopposed by any military or civilian agency because they "hate our freedom"? What purpose has been served by the thirteen year war in Afghanistan?

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 2:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Those of you who like the "they were asleep" explanation for Rodger's incredible feat forget that one of the purported victims was a visitor making it very unlikely that he was asleep.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 2:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)


@billclausen, do you believe that 9/11 was a false flag operation organized by the US government?

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 27, 2014 at 10:57 p.m

I don't know.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 5:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What Dewdly was saying, and I'm saying, and Loon (who I always either enthusiastically agree with, or vehemently oppose) is that on one end, Democratic Party shills denounce conspiracy theorists, while saying that the Democrats are helpless to oppose the ongoing conflict known as "Bush's War".

So why is it, that Obama and many of his fellow Democratic Party politicians support The Patriot Act, the National Defense Authorization Act, and the ongoing war? What the invisible force dictating their actions? Is it a case of Flip Wilson's old adage "The Devil made me do it"?

I have no idea if 9/11 was an inside job, or if it was as the government said, a case of angry Muslim Fundamentalists, although I lean toward the official version given by the media, (only for lack of a solid counter-argument) but what I DO know is that anti-Constitutionalists in both major political parties have used this as an excuse to chop away at our fundamental rights, and if you're supporting those politicians, you're digging your own grave.

billclausen (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 6:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

again, the irony.

definition of Troll:
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

the discussion was a civil one, until the discussion group Gestapo showed up. They attack posters to illicit an emotional response, attempt to upset the blog participants with baseless and unfounder insults, off-topic attacks with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response.

then they accuse those of not toting the line as being mindless sheeple.

Sofia Smallstorm Unraveling Sandy Hook
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1yfJD...

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 6:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I like the Indy and its policy of rather light moderation in the comments section (as opposed to another notoriously lame local site), but the recent influx of all the new "conspiracy" babblers is a bit disturbing, I suspect some are people who troll (in both senses) the Internet for stories with even a smidgen of a connection to their obsessions/topics and who then engage with the those willing to debate this stuff endlessly and, ultimately, pointlessly. Maybe I'm wrong and SB has acquired a sub-culture of truther/birther types who now have their own wine-bar or something down in the "Funk Zone?"
Maybe that local biweekly rag that covers the FZ like flypaper will do a story?

zappa (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 6:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

agree zappa, and hey Truth, I've been toting the line my whole life but no one has accused me of being one of the mindless sheeple!

DrDan (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree, zappa. Do these c/ts actually believe they’re at all credible? Even aside from their ludicrous ideas, the WAY in which they put them forth is hilarious: Blah blah (unsupported assertion.) Blah blah (list of events). Blah blah (opinion opinion opinion). Blah blah (link to “evidence” consisting of cheesy youtube video created by another c/t, full of unsupported interpretations of images etc.--e.g., see that blurry dark blob off in the woods? Proof of a second shooter!) THEN anyone who questions them is chided: Where are your facts, your evidence, your proof that my unsupported theories are wrong??

" Mary Lou stole the cookies! Mary Lou stole the cookies!!"
"How do you know she stole the cookies?”
“She stole the cookies! Where’s your proof that she didn’t? Huh? See, you have no proof! She stole the cookies!!! And we’re all gonna die!!”

So what is it these guys (are they ever not guys?) get out of inserting their crazy opinions into the comment section of Indy articles? These are my theories—I’m not claiming they are facts (however, one can find numerous reputable studies on psychological types and motivations correlated with the c/t mindset).

--They need attention—negative or positive, it makes them feel important. And this is their only way to get attention since they don’t get it for their meager life accomplishments.

--They need to feel smart and right—and they’re actually neither so can’t see how wrong they are about it.

--They need this as a distraction from their unhappy, unfulfilling lives.

--They need to feel some sense of power or agency over something since they are passive and ineffectual in their lives overall. Of course, they don’t ever actually take action here either—other than to take over message boards, make grainy videos, and occasionally shoot up a WalMart. But they’re useful! They’re warning us!

--They need something to blame for their own lack of achievement—they’re being lied to and exploited! Don’t you see it?

SBPorVida (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think you nailed it SBPorVida

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe all these truther/birther people are really a conspiracy by unseen forces to destroy sane, intelligent discussion? I think the Wonderbread Group is behind it, along with Ill Repute and Paris Hilton.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

CAN YOU SPARE 16 SECONDS?

dewdly wrote:
"Do you believe 19 Muslims armed with boxcutters, directed by Osama bin Laden from a cave in Afghanistan, hijacked four airliners and crashed them into the WTC, the Pentagon, and a Pennsylvania field - totally unopposed by any military or civilian agency because they "hate our freedom"?…"

Those who believe the cockamamie USA government conspiracy theory regarding 9/11 might want to know that they are now a diminishing minority. Within just a few years of these events, polls showed that 75% of New York City residents scoffed at the nonsense promulgated by the USA federal government; recent polls are showing more than 50% of the USA population does not believe the government nonsense.

This is important because, if that monstrous lie can be laid bare domestically (dozens of foreign government intelligence agencies have laughed at it since its inception), to the point where even the most naive and uninformed can't deny it, then the enormous sham war on terror (that has transferred $4 trillion + from the public to the richest .01%), and the vast police state / surveillance apparatus *completely unravels.*

Since 11 September 2001, $791 billion has been spent on so-called "homeland security" alone (i.e. corporate welfare) which — inflation adjusted — is more than 1.5 times the amount spent on the New Deal.

The fact that this war can be waged both against foreign "suspected terrorists" and domestic "suspected terrorists" is a bonus to the real terrorists — those politicians who support this sham war and evisceration of the US Constitution, a majority of the US Congress.

For any 9/11 USA government conspiracy theory devotee who senses it may be time to reconsider, but can only spare 16 seconds, I suggest (1) set aside the *whodunnit* and *how did it happen* questions, and (2) focus on the USA government conspiracy theory, with an initial 16-second investment here:

[VIDEO - 00:16] ReThink911 Toronto Subway Ad
http://rethink911.org/news/toronto-ad...

And then, if you'd like to invest five additional minutes (and don't miss the 30 seconds at the end of outtakes featuring professionals who experienced the New York City attacks), I strongly recommend this witty, fast-paced, and information-packed video:

[06:00] 911 Truth ~ 9/11 In a Nutshell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqQdy...

After investing those six minutes, I recommend:

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
http://www.ae911truth.org/

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

THIS part I can agree with JT: "the enormous sham war on terror (that has transferred $4 trillion + from the public to the richest .01%), and the vast police state / surveillance apparatus..." The etiology of it is much different and more complex than the conspiracy freaks believe...

DrDan (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you're too dumb to see how Al-Qaeda pulled off the attacks then you're too dumb to be posting on the internet as an expert in anything.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I guess what I've found especially disgusting about many conspiracy theorists like James Fudd Tracy is that they confuse their fantasies with facts, and their fantasies are pretty sick.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@zappa,

Thinking people live everywhere - even in Santa Barbara - and they don't require social recognition, approval, or their own wine bar to raise questions about the things that affect their lives and the lives of their children.

The presence of a university skewes the perception of public opinion because political correctness is de rigueur in what amounts to a gated community of the mind. Liberals gave us Obama and now they find themselves in the unenviable position of having to explain why Obama has continued and even enhanced Bush's wars and post-9/11 programs. That is why questions about 9/11 make liberals uncomfortable.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's too bad Dewdly and his fellow doubters weren't in Isla Vista the night of the shootings or at the WTC the day of 9-11 instead of the victims.
You claim nonpartisanship Tieber but you immediately make it Left/Right. You're as much a fraud as Alex Jones and the rest of them. Its because of people like you that the Patriot Act isn't debated and squashed because nutjobs like you muddy the waters. YOU are the real conspiracy.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW Conspiracy nuts, I and many of my friends are your worst nightmare. We're neither partsian nor do we support the wars and we still call BS on you !

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SBPorVida is on the money. Good call. It is interesting watching them find each other here, I'll give it that.

lawdy (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ken_Volok wrote:
"It's too bad Dewdly and his fellow doubters weren't in Isla Vista the night of the shootings or at the WTC the day of 9-11 instead of the victims."

I'll ignore "instead of the victims" as well as the puerile ad hominems of the final three sentences (not included in the excerpt above), but I wonder why Ken_Volok feels that being physically present at these events is paramount to understanding them.

Regarding...

"You claim nonpartisanship Tieber but you immediately make it Left/Right. "

...at the risk of boring those who are here for a productive discussion, I'd be *sincerely* interested in an *excerpt* from ANY of my 311 comments at the Santa Barbara Independent that illustrates that I "make it Left/Right" — because (1) I actually take care to craft my comments in such a way as to minimize any misreading that results in someone thinking I feel that "left/right" serves any useful purpose, and (2) I have posted more than a few times exactly the opposite of Ken_Volok's claim; for instance:

t... wrote (at December 12, 2013 at 12:41 a.m.):
"...as a smear against the left-wing..."

Distinctions of left-wing / right-wing, liberal / conservative, red gang / blue gang are becoming increasingly less useful, replaced, as people wake up to the fact that 400 individuals in this country hold more wealth than the 150 million least wealthy of the population, by 99.9% vs. the .1% elite. Though I primarily resonate with Occupy, Occupy and TEA ("Taxed Enough Already") Party positions are remarkably similar; differences are primarily cultural...

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Catching a bulltet in IV or crashing into a building on a hijacked airliner would definitely help Dewdew understand these events occured.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't feed the trolls.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@Ken_Volok,

Both al-Qaeda and the Taliban were organized and funded by U.S. intelligence during the Soviet's war in Afghanistan. Both were used by Western interests to defeat the Soviets and chip away at their union. A year after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan the Soviet Union collapsed. The U.S. did not withdraw along with the Soviets, but simply took the place of the Soviets as occupiers. If U.S. funding, organization, and training of al-Qaeda was effective in allowing them to "pull off" 9/11, it is curious that al-Qaeda didn't fly planes into the Kremlin rather than slogging away for nine years in a war on their own soil. Even more curious is an attack on their U.S. sponsors that had the sole effect of bringing another - even longer - war to their soil.

You can believe George Bush, John Ashcroft, and Donald Rumsfeld's stories, but don't confuse those inventions with facts.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@Ken,

There cannot be any debate on the Patriot Act or the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as long as their dishonest justifications are not exposed. You cannot blame those who have discovered facts that contradict the official stories for "muddying the waters". On the contrary, new information serves to clarify. That is what the parents of the stabbing victims were asking of the Sheriff, but I suppose they should have called you to find out how Elliot Rodger managed to stab to death three adult males.

dewdly (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)


BTW Conspiracy nuts, I and many of my friends are your worst nightmare. We're neither partsian nor do we support the wars and we still call BS on you !

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 11:42 a.m.

And now WE have joined the fight, on the side of Ken and his minions. You conspiracy types have awoken a sleeping giant.

Greenspan, Clausen, Volokh, move aside, let US refute these nervous nellies.

dolphinpod14 (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

billclausen wrote:
"Even if a plausible report is given, will the conspiracy theorists rest.."

zappa wrote:
"… the recent influx of all the new "conspiracy" babblers is a bit disturbing…"

Ken_Volok wrote:
"…BTW Conspiracy nuts…"
"…Maybe all these truther/birther people are really a conspiracy by unseen forces…"
"…I guess what I've found especially disgusting about many conspiracy theorists like James Fudd Tracy…"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is a “conspiracy theorist"?

The pejorative “conspiracy theorist” (including the fatuous derivatives used above: "conspiracy babbler" and "conspiracy nut"; as well as the puerile versions of James Tracy's middle name) is a derogatory smear meant to demean and ridicule skeptics of official stories.

It's often a desperate attempt to demand “Don’t go there!”, used by those who either lack the mental capacity to refute someone's assertions, are simply lazy, or are in the thralls of cognitive dissonance.

As any prosecutor could explain, a conspiracy is simply when two or more people plot to commit an act of deceit or crime. The idea, then, that there is no such thing as a conspiracy is ludicrous.

Thus, when three hoodlums plan to rob a local convenience store, they are engaged in a “conspiracy” and will likely be charged with a “conspiracy to commit armed robbery” in addition to “armed robbery.” Most law enforcement detectives are, in reality, conspiracy investigators and analysts, and most people who are skeptical of official stories are, in fact, analyzing conspiracies — as law enforcement at all levels does on a daily basis — in an attempt to understand what really happened.

Most so-called “conspiracy theorists” are skeptics. They’re skeptical of what the government tells them. They’re skeptical of the claim that criminal transnational pharmaceutical corporations are interested in promoting health. They’re skeptical that industrial food corporations are telling them the truth about what’s in their food. And they’re skeptical of anything coming out of USA federal mouthpieces, regardless of whether the jackass gang [D] or the elephant gang [R] happens to be in power.

Skeptics of official stories, it turns out, also have the support of history on their side. Most so-called "conspiracy theories" eventually become "conspiracy fact."

JohnTieber (anonymous profile)
June 28, 2014 at 8:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Those labeled "conspiracy theorist" prove to do research to support their inquiries that identify inconsistencies and deviations from conventional norms, like the collapse of Building 7, no airplane found at the Pentagon, controlled demolition of 2 skyscrapers (never in human history had it ever happened that airplanes vaporized buildings nor has it been duplicated). These skeptics are prepared to address those that will attack their position. They are commended for their courage and perseverance for truth and justice.

The mightiest superpower taken down by box cutter wilding "bad" men (completely absurd storyline), James Homes found completed loaded off his ass in his car unable to even stand on his own two feet and the unfired guns still in his car, absolutely no records available for research of Sandy Hook that would substantiate the deaths of all those children and documentation by official autopsies and coroners reports to note the fatal shots of each of the children, and now 3 young Asian men murdered without any detail about it.

Here we have the rational normal people attacking the skeptics that question the official storylines as mentally disturbed and delusional. However, the only counter- argument is to ridicule and insult the skeptics that bring to the surface elements that have transpired to contradict the normal expectations.

It’s encouraging to see that more people are participating in these forums with their genuine notions that counter the official story lines. A few years ago it was only a few others and I. i encourage you to continue to share your skepticism. It’s catching fire. Unfortunately, the Indy and the other local newsprints only print political material that is non-controversial or perpetuate the political debate to a very narrow paradigm of Right vs. Left and the world is left to be defined in these terms. Rarely do the local newsprint offer us skeptics real material for a real debate.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 29, 2014 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Back to the article and to argue about the deaths of the 3 young Asian men. The alleged shooting spree began after 9 pm and ended before 10pm. this leaves 2 scenarios. The men were neatly asleep before 830pm, tucked away in their beds, sound asleep and Elliot creeped in slowly and silently, so lightly that he was able to crawl next to each of the individuals and neatly cut each of their jugulars without a squeal from any of them. They died silently in their sleep. Or scenario 2, they were killed the night before and left in their beds to bleed out for at least 24 hours, assuming the visitor arrived on Thursday.

There is no timeline about when the videos were recorded, no timeline about the details of the 3 young Asian men of their day prior to their untimely deaths and what was Elliot's day like on the 24 hours prior to the alleged shooting spree.

Rational people would like these mysteries answers. Its what's expected out of any murder case. The opportunity to question all alibis.

However, only delusional people and the mentally disturbed would be completely satisfied with the status quo of this investigation.

Sadly, the mainstream media has corralled the mentality of the majority of the unsuspecting American public by presenting them with a cheesy timeline of a rehearsed shooting spree complete with a diagram making noted points of interest with Xs and Arrows. The unsuspecting American public has been led to believe that the case is closed. It was a deranged "lone gunman". And safety has been restored.

To the families of the 3 young Asian men, fight the system, demand detailed answers from the local authorities, retrieve the bodies of your deceased family members and offer them their long awaited funeral and burials. You are not alone. There are many skeptics here in town that are sympathetic to your losses. Prayers and heart-felt thoughts go out to you.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 29, 2014 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To the surviving family members of the deceased, bring your story to the public. The Indy has courageous investigative reporters anxious to hear and write your story. Provide them with telephone records, last known place of contact, re-create their activities 24 hours before their demise. Share their personal habits, what did they say about their school life and housing arraingements, their schedule of events, both academic and social, their normal sleeping patterns, shared lodging accommodations, were they insomniacs, did they study late into the night.

Don't let them pass in vain.

TheTruthLiesInTheContradiction (anonymous profile)
June 29, 2014 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you call these shootings "alleged" then you are an alleged human being with only alleged rights. You are not rational, you are scum.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
June 29, 2014 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Truth troll is a semi intelligent pile of whale crap. That is my theory and he / she has provided no proof to the contrary so it must be true.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 29, 2014 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Truth, for the record, I believe the asian men were killed the day before the spree.

See guys? Wasn't that easy? I didn't call him any names or suggest that he should be removed from the general population for his beliefs, I simply corrected his mistake and/or provided information that would help them form a more concrete explanation of what actually happened. That is how rational, mature adults have discussions.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 29, 2014 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, the trolls are feeding each other.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
June 29, 2014 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"H-G has nailed "the truth" guy, truther, birther, boring snot...troll."

WOW! DrD and Hershel and me in agreement? That must be a conspiracy!

blahblahmoreblah (anonymous profile)
June 30, 2014 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes it is so insightful watching you all agree so much on your insults and bullying habits. I like what it says about the actual content of your posts as well. Keep 'em coming.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
June 30, 2014 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

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