Santa Barbara Independent Podcast

Santa Barbara City Council (For Dummys)

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As usual, a very left wing slant from Nick. "A Voters' Guide to Who is Running and Why" is full of the usual loaded leftie description we all expect from the Indy. Just don't pretend it's an evenhanded nonpartisan article, Nick, even though the election is supposed to be nonpartisan.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2013 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Santa Barbara City Council (For Dummys)"

Dummys (sic)?? Is someone trying to be weirdly ironic or something?

zappa (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2013 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry you weren't endorsed "JohnLocke".

Even if the election is nonpartisan, the electorate has every right to be partisan (and that includes members of the media.)

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2013 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And if you've come to expect a "loaded Leftie description", why are you complaining about it? It's like going to the same restaurant repeatedly and complaining about the food each time!

When are you going to complain about "loaded Righty descriptions" on FOX if we're in such an egalitarian moode?

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 27, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Partisanship is destroying our government's ability to function.

Nickie is such a predictable and easy target.

I don't watch Fox for just that reason.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OK, JL, yet you phrased the podcast as showing "a very lefty slant" meaning you, too, are injecting partisanship... you are the one calling yourself "center left" which is hilarious based on your many posts, plenty of them quite thoughtful and excellent contributions. Sorry you weren't endorsed. For your same reasons, I watch zero TV.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here is the biggest challenge facing this city, and whomever you choose to elect to the new city council.

City CFO quoted in an article to the NewsPress that the city faces $200 million (plus) in unfunded employee pension liabilities and $200 million in unfunded city infrastructure repair and maintenance projections.

1. Is the city CFO telling the truth? Then what will city council do about this; and will city staff accept this as the new reality they have to live with.

2. Is the city CFO lying or materially exaggerating this approx $400 millon in unfunded city liabilities? if so, when why does he still have his job.

3. Did the NewsPress inaccurately report what the city CFO stated. Do you have proof this is what they did to corroborate this was inaccurate reporting.

foofighter (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@JL, it would be interesting to see your candidate summaries so we readers can assess how much less slanted your analyses are compared to Nick's.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 9:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How about letting the candidates speak for themselves instead of having Nick interpreting their views the way he sees them?

Botany (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

@ DrDan: It is quite simple to be in the center and point out partisan views on both extremes without being partisan oneself. It merely requires the ability to be objective - something in very short supply in our times. With multiple degrees in science and engineering, I have been trained in objectivity all my life.

Wikipedia's description of center left (apparently posted by a Brit) pretty well describes me: "The centre-left also referred to as the moderate left, describes adherence to views leaning to the left but closer to the centre on the left-right political spectrum than other left-wing variants. Centre leftists, such as social democrats or social liberals, believe in working within the established systems to improve social justice. The centre-left promotes a degree of social equality that it believes is achievable through promoting equal opportunity. The centre-left has promoted luck egalitarianism that emphasizes that the achievement of equality requires personal responsibility in areas in control by the individual person through their abilities and talents and social responsibility in areas outside of control by the individual person in their abilities or talents.
The centre-left opposes a wide gap between the rich and the poor and supports moderate measures to reduce the gap, such as a progressive income tax, laws prohibiting child labour, minimum wage laws, laws regulating working conditions, limits on working hours, laws to ensure workers' right to organize] The centre-left, unlike the far-left, typically claims that equality of outcome is not possible (sometimes not even desirable), but that equal opportunity improves social equality in society."
What describes you?

@foofighter: This City has lied repeatedly about its financial condition; why believe them now? The biggest lie is "the budget is balanced". Uh, right, except for hundreds of millions in deferred maintenance and unfunded pension liabilities.

@EastBeach: I pick my candidates based on their published and quoted remarks, not on the editorial regurgitations of media. So I won't regurgitate them for you either. Read their positions and make up your own mind, or better yet, post your own summaries.

Like Botany says.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the article also covered democratic socialism, often part of center-left, JL, and from your many prior posts [I won't go back and get them] you are very very far from democratic socialism.
The wiki article also states
"Throughout the world, centre-left groups generally support:
A mixed economy consisting of both private enterprise and publicly owned or subsidised programmes of education, universal health care, child care and related social services for all citizens.
An extensive system of social security, with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the general public against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement (National Insurance contributions)
Equal rights and opportunity.
Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers and consumers by ensuring labour rights (i.e. supporting worker access to trade unions), consumer protections, and fair market competition.
A value-added tax and/or progressive taxation system to fund government expenditures."
You don't fit the bill here in the above much, weren't you anti Prop 30, for example? Are you for single payer health insurance (National insurance contributions)? It goes on and on.
No, JL, you are being slippery in a way, but betray yourself when asserting your vaunted "objectivity" because you have "multiple degrees in science and engineering, I have been trained in objectivity all my life. " This supposed objectivity -- BTW you have written some very hot and vehement posts here, fella! -- based on degrees in science? but much of the current debate is on social/political/historical stuff. I could claim I'm oh so objective with "multiple degrees in history" and a published scholarly book and so on... but I doubt these claims to objectivity by any of us.
In short, I'm a social democrat who, for example, is not satisfied at all by your moderate attempts to diminish that "wide gap between the rich and the poor" -- we need very vigorous efforts to diminish that gap, especially given that the 1% has accrued almost all of the gains made after 2007.
Luck egalitarianism is pretty suspect.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 6:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well JL, I see you chose not to defend your characterization of Welsh's podcast and tried to divert attention elsewhere. Well played.

I've watched almost every candidate forum on TVSB (ZZzzzz ...) prior to listening to the podcast and am no newcomer to City Council meetings.

Point blank ... your characterization of Welsh's podcast as "very slanted" is way off base. Listen to it again and you'll see Welsh highlights both "good" and "bad" things about the candidates. And like any political analyst, Nick did a great job underscoring the various groups and individuals who are attempting to influence the election behind the scenes. Plus he critiqued both the "liberal" and "conservative" camps ... nobody got away scott free.

I also have advanced degrees in engineering but would not label your characterization "objective" by any means.

Indeed, I'm amused you'd think your education and work training disciplines your personal perceptions and opinions so well. I know plenty of folks with advanced degrees in the sciences & engineering who are all over the map. Some brilliant, others utter nincompoops.

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
October 28, 2013 at 9:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

and I know scads of people with advanced degrees in the humanities who are all over the map as well...but many of them have the grace to admit this and they continue seeking.
So JL, you are for "universal healthcare"? great.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2013 at 4:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan, While telling me (incorrectly) all the things I don't believe in, you neglected to tell me what you do believe in. But to cut this useless debate short, most of what you mention I do support, in moderation and with proper controls. BTW, a value added tax system is far from progressive.

The 1% has had huge intended help from the gov in the way the banking crisis and mortgage crisis was mishandled and has indeed amassed a disproportional increase in wealth. So....confiscation?

You COULD claim to be objective, but that would just be silly.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2013 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

DrDan, go to, take the quiz and let's share results. I guarantee you will be amazed.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Divide and conquer politics is ugly and unethical no matter what newspaper or politician attempts to shape things that way.

This is an opinion peice.

Georgy (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2013 at 6:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That's one of most obviously partisan things Nick did here. He tried to classify the candidates by party when it's a non-partisan race. I think his hope was to engender party loyalty and portray the candidates he doesn't agree with as belonging to the minority party.

Botany (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nick is a partisan. The Indy is a partisan rag. No reason to expect reasoned analysis therein; I just read it for laughs.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 29, 2013 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

thus, the real JL stands up: objective, non-partisan, emphatically center-left.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2013 at 3:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Calling the Indy partisan does not make me partisan, Dr Dan; back to Logic 101 for you. Take the test, Dan. Let's get some external objectivity into this.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2013 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

forget test idea JL, back to Logic 1 for you

DrDan (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2013 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How is this column "Leftist"? It's placed on the left hand side of the page, classic indoctrintion technique. If it were Centrist it'd be in the Center.

Ken_Volok (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2013 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why not take the test, DrDan? The results of mine (3 different ones, actually) showed clearly center left; my guess, having read the test and your postings, would place you far left. No problem with that. Just the usual optical distortion of those at the extremes thinking of themselves as centrist, and thereby viewing actual centrists as being of the other extreme. Particularly common in these parts, this being a rather far left state, county, and town.

But I'm not surprised you won't take the test. Any more than you would use a dictionary. And I don't understand why I should go back to logic 1 when you have the logic problem. Guess I'm just too logical.

But enough of this useless silliness. Actually, Ken_Volok is right on. The left hand placement of the article, combined with the yellow ink, indicates clear leftiness. That's why the NYT only has left hand pages, MSNBC broadcasts only on the left half of the screen and why Fox is only broadcast on the right hand side of the screen, or so I'm told - I never watch either of the two.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JL I'm a little confused by the test, what do you mean you got center left, there are so many scales?

I got DSIRW - Anti-Nationalist

"Not anarchists but something like it, anti-nationalists are sincerely disappointed by the current political world order. These thinkers care much more about quality of life than they do about patriotism, and are likely willing to make do with far less centralized/state power, if it makes empowering the individual more likely. Anti-nationalists take a transformative view of government, favoring anarchism or democratic reform. They are likely to develop plans for a new world order."

Oh, I love me some New World Order :p

My highest ranking dimension was individualist and my second highest ranking dimension was small government.

I was closer to Democratic than Autocratic, much closer to small government than big government, way over on the individualist side opposed to the collectivist side, slightly more rationalist than literalist, a bit more wide focus than narrow focus and slightly more human centric than eco centric (but I think that portion is a little bias b/c that may not be my personal belief but more to do with how I wish to tell everybody else what to believe regarding that topic)

Interesting test.

loonpt (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ooh, cute dictionary dig there, JL, and so very mature and adult as well; that's all you've got? Maybe find another "test" to help you figure out who you really are, because you need help.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
October 30, 2013 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@loonpt: that was my point. There are several self-tests available on the 'net to allow one to assess one's political position. Yes, the center is a broad place. The purpose of the tests is to come to some common terminology to allow intelligent dialogue. My highest ranking, much to my enduring amazement, was large gov, Social Democrat style, which Iconsider to be rather far left. The rest of my description was pretty much the same as yours.

@DrDan: "Mature and adult"? It was a direct reference to a previous exchange between myself, you, and K_V on the definition of "tarbaby", which you claimed to be a racist term, but according to three dictionaries is clearly not. Still waiting for you to admit your error there - but, nah, that's not your style. Take the test. Tell us about yourself instead of sitting on the sidelines throwing stones.

JohnLocke (anonymous profile)
October 31, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

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