Police Release Details of State Street Shooting

This must just be be a horrible mistake - Santa Barbara Co. has one of the most restrictive, fascist CCW issuance policies in the state. You mean to tell me that a criminal decided he didn't need a permit to carry? SHOCKING!

Of course, the majority of the sheeple that live around here won't even consider this. They'd march down to city hall to pay for their walking permit if the city council told them they had to (the proceeds of which would go towards painting blue lines in the street to show where the waterline will rise as a result of global warming)- so you can guess what the average gun-ignorant, self-absorbed, upper middle class liberal thinks about a CCW permit.

Can't wait to leave the Glorious People's Republik of Kalifornistan. I look forward to emigrating to the United States.

I doubt Recovering Liberal is a local resident, as the last time a news item on concealed handguns happened here at the Indy, nutjobs from far away saw fit to comment.

However, I do hope "Recovering Liberal" is a local resident right now and then moves away, far away, in disgust with all of us True Liberals here in "Kalifornistan". We have enough demand on our housing stock already.

Please, feel free to leave. Now.

I am most definitely a local. Ask the webmaster.

The true nutjobs are the ones who support gun laws that only hurt those who abide by them - and who get excited when the county government uses their money to paint blue lines in the street, while local schools remain underfunded and 30+ homeless people die on the streets each year.

I look forward to residing in one of the blue or green states on the following map - my taxes will be lower, I'll be safer, and I'll be more free: http://www.guns4america.com/ccw_map_larg...

This incident reminds me of the murder/assassination of Chauncey Bailey last Thursday in Oakland, another city extremely hostile towards law-abiding citizens who choose to exercise their RKBA. But you're right "Streetfighter," it's the guns.

I promise, I will leave as soon as possible. But in 20 years, when half of the city is NOT submerged underwater, I will return to seek recompensation from the city council for the portion of my taxes that went towards hiring an artist to paint blue lines in the street.

Your username is hilarious.

I am a born and raised local, liberal, and *gasp* owner of several firearms, including my first, and favorite, .40 HK USP. So what if I was legally able to carry it downtown during fiesta? It wouldn't be smart. Sure, I could have shot Turner if I was close. But guess what? The police did. They were there, they responded and no one else was hurt. A major argument against CCWs is that many people would get them. Sure, if everyone had a gun, it wouldn't be special and people may behave better. But guess what? Having a gun and knowing how to properly and safely use if are entirely different issues. If every idiot within 20 feet of the fight pulled out a handgun and started shooting at Turner, most would have missed, most likely killing more than just Turner and injuring more.
Also, this is Santa Barbara, not Oakland. Crimes like these are very few and far between. The police handled it, in my opinion, extremely well.

Crazy, in Santa Barbara? I think the local blog had it right, paradise lost
http://www.santabarbarasblog.com/

just unbelievable. Never thought I would see this day.

sallyc:

What exactly did the blog you reference get right? A thoroughly obvious reference to some imagined lost innocence? There's very little there in your link's there.

Since I've been here, and it's much longer than most, the rare occurances of gun violence *always* are disturbing, *always* bring forth the hand-wringing and declarations of decline, and the crime rate says about the same.

So what's new about this day -- other than the fact that these are not locals in this tragedy?

Great work, SBPD.

--virtual yada-yada

Gun laws and anti-drug laws are simply a response to the declining morals of our society, and S.B. is an amplified microcosm of that.

I've been in the area 34 years and I've seen it really change in about the last 15 years. We see a culture nationwide that celebrates Britney Spears, Howard Stern, gansta rap and so forth, when not too long ago such things would have been fringe elements. Add to that the fact that S.B. is--despite its nice climate--an overpriced, overcrowded place where the average person growing up here has no chance of buying to the American Dream.

Top that off with the fact that our city "leaders" have allowed downtown to turn into a continuum of bars pandering to the alcohol culture (With no regard to how the presence of these bars affects the people who live and work in the area, despite their justified protests) and you have an explosive situation.

Oh yes, and there IS the issue of the homeless, but our progressive city leaders don't want to talk about that.

..."no chance of buying INTO the American Dream"

lack of affordable housing + decorative trash cans and lights - money to pay cops and teachers = increase in murder.

Wow, sbEMT, now you're really thinking outside of the box! Let the police protect us! Excellent idea!

I think you should go look up Castle Rock vs. Gonzales. Better yet, have a friend do it; you'd never find it.

"lack of affordable housing + decorative trash cans and lights - money to pay cops and teachers = increase in murder."

Well-put Rockstar. Right to the point and true.

I can't beleive that good ol' lead bullets would fly in S.B again. I would think there would be a less lethal weapon that could knock out a fool. This guy may have been an undercover cop or or state or federal agent - well whover he was, now he's expired.

Here's a little poetry.

Down on Limbzville territory - the story gets gorry.
The big fiesta should be done away with story.
Nothing but trouble - sorry to bust your bubble.
I ain't going there no more - avoiding trouble.

If it is true that this man not only pulled his weapon but was pointing it at people downtown, he got what he deserved. The Santa Barbara Police responded and acted appropriately for the safety of the public. They pulled their weapons fired and killed the dangerous element without hurting anyone else in the process.

To the bed wetting liberals out there: What if they tried to not kill him and the man shot someone's kid or a few other people fighting back? There is only one response to a madman waving a gun at a crowd, put him down immediately without hurting anyone else.

Tax money well spent, IMHO.

Thanks SBPD.

I can see ResLib's point-- laws don't make people do different if they intend to act in a certain way. The punishment may be a deterrent, but not likely. Given the situation, it seems only the probability of getting caught is a deterrent.

Which is another issue entirely.

The ability to control the crowds during Fiesta is lacking. I don't know the root of this issue. Do the Old Spanish Days folks think increased security and sweeps of those in the downtown area would be a deterrent to the law-abiding, scaring them into thinking crime is out of hand? Does the Downtown Organization think businesses would be hurt or unfairly targeted as a result of expanded security measures, leaving the bars and restaurants with less revenue than they may otherwise earn on this weekend? Does the City Council not wish to spend additional funds required of increased controls over the crowds and security sweeps of downtown patrons? Do the Police think all that is necessary is currently being employed, and that the tactics in place are at the upper limits of acceptable policing policy?

Who or what thinks what we do currently is the only way to keep things safe? You can't legislate against stupid, but you can certainly do things to prevent stupid.

The core downtown area ought to be cordoned off with limited entry points, with IDs checked and swiped, names and faces checked against known gangs and affiliates, metal detectors searching for weapons, unattended minors detained or escorted out of the area at night...

The crowds should be controlled, and this needs to start by filtering who goes into the area in the first place.

Then maybe, just maybe, Fiesta can be a time when locals return to downtown after 5pm, and people can feel a bit safer knowing some of the trouble has been stopped at the door.

What's the big deal guys? At least we know how high the water line will rise as a result of global warming - I know I'll sleep well tonight. Thanks Marty!

It would be better if the closed off a 2 X 2 block area and and did just what David E mentioned. Thats what they had to do at the Citrus Festival to our South East in the Citrus Capital of the world Santa Paula Ca.

They had a problem much worse than S.B. or Oxnard(habbitually Dangerous for Santa Barbarans), they had major gang brawls that would turn into ugly riots. Now that it's held behind fencing and there is a large Police presence at its core, nothing happens there. And no News is good news right?

Although who is going to pay for all this fencing and metal detector gear, it's over for Fiesta after 7PM - the way it was is forever a memory.

Posted by SantaBrutal (anonymous profile) on August 5, 2007 at 3:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It would be better if the closed off a 2 X 2 block area and and did just what David E mentioned. Thats what they had to do at the Citrus Festival to our South East in the Citrus Capital of the world Santa Paula Ca.

They had a problem much worse than S.B. or Oxnard(habbitually Dangerous for Santa Barbarans), they had major gang brawls that would turn into ugly riots. Now that it's held behind fencing and there is a large Police presence at its core, nothing happens there. And no News is good news right?

Although who is going to pay for all this fencing and metal detector gear, it's over for Fiesta after 7PM - the way it was is forever a memory.

Posted by SantaBrutal (anonymous profile) on August 5, 2007 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

They should charge any of the gun wielding cohorts with intent to murder - conspiracy and whatever else they can get on em.

Posted by SantaBrutal (anonymous profile) on August 5, 2007 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank God Fiestas is just about over and all the tourists and visitors from OXNARD can go back home - minus a few fools that must sit in jail till they do their time.

Forget the clubs getting more money during Fiesta the clubs should pay for the beefed-up security that will be needed in the future to put up a fence, have Metal detectors and extra security guards, etc.

Why does the city cater so much to the night life here in Santa Barbara. The clubs make all this money, and for what, nothing good or purposeful does it serve. The same lame local acts, and the regulars who stooper home driving drunk or support the local cabs who sometimes themselves get DUI's.

The downtown scene is a circle of greed that really serves no good purpose. Why do we as local spend so much money on stoopid tiles for this area? About every eight years!!!

Posted by SantaBrutal (anonymous profile) on August 5, 2007 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah Marty, why do we spend so much on tiles that move and trip people?

In response to Kcox920 - real bullets flying from anyones gun, including our obviously well trained PD officers have about a 30 percent chance of missing and killing innocent bystanders or damaging equipment - In this case shooting a cabdrivers tire.

There are new weapons that would have taken this jackass down quicly and effectively without risking the life and equipment of others. I'm looking at the future, some people just want the same old solution - kill kill kill.

I guess it's one less person in Jail or prison which in a way may be better. The risks are high out there on Downtowns wild side!

And Ohh yeah - Hardliner for life!!!

Posted by SantaBrutal (anonymous profile) on August 5, 2007 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Life!

Posted by SantaBrutal (anonymous profile) on August 5, 2007 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Also why did the Santa Barbara News Supress not cover the story in Saturdays paper? Funny how they were not able to include it, even on the website they had nothing much to say about the shooting - pretty effective at supressing the shooting.

Nice thing about the Santa Paula Citrus Festival solution is that you only see security guards as you come in and don't really see the cops unless you look behind an inner circle in the center of the facilities. if you have nothing to hide what is wrong with George Orwells 1984?

The S.B. City may be looking a t a major lawsuit, one of the biggest ever; maybe the biggest ever. Some of these guys involved in this thing we're Naval Men. Think about it mister bigmouth, stop talking and wait for the consequences-let the military do their investigation and just hold tight. Just like I said they should have used non-lethal weapons - we learn quick here in the youthend of this one. Safety first dummies! Safety first - non lethal weapons must become - after a crisis like this one. I am young but very wize - and really nice!! Unfortunate, really unfortunate. Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!! Stop shooting lead!!!!!

A major lawsuit? Bigger than the one about the drowning at the city summer camp? Please.
Never bring a knife to a gunfight or a Taser either. Some dipstick escalates a brawl by pulling a .45 I don't want the PD to 'perhaps' subdue him, I want him down and out.
Also why would the military investigate anything? It didn't happen on base and this guy was discharged.

SantaBrutal asks "Also why did the Santa Barbara News Supress not cover the story in Saturdays paper? Funny how they were not able to include it, even on the website they had nothing much to say about the shooting - pretty effective at supressing the shooting."

Because the reporters might have left by that time the shooting took place. I base this on the fact that when I worked there, sometimes by 11:30 only the sports reporters were left.

The SBPD responded appropriately to the given situation. Innocent bystanders were not injured and a potentially even deadlier situation was diffused.

A taser would have been ineffective in subduing a man with a finger on the trigger.

Perhaps it is time for metal detectors and searches downtown.

To all of you from somewhere else, leave your weapons at home or face the consequences.

To( SBEMT) I QUESS YOU WOULD FEEL THAT WAY, BUT WHAT IF IT WAS ONE OF YOUR KIDS. IF YOU HAVE ANY WOULD YOU STILL FEEL THE SAME WAY I DO NOT THINK SO. BUT YOU HAVE ALL THE BIG GUN THAT SAYS A LOT

first of all some of you people act like you were there did you see him pull out the gun and if so the police did not have to shoot him more than five times yes we all make mistakes thats how god made us but the police still shoot will to kill him and thats not right he was a close friend of mine and he did not deserve to be shoot all those times if he would have died from 2 shoot i could understand even 3 but not more than five and in the back while he was runing away thats not right but god let things happen for a reason and i hope who ever do not know god get to know god just from this incident thank you and god bless

im writing again because i just found out more info for u people who believe the cops are so rightous. did u know after the two shoots will went down and the other cop went over him and shoot 3 more bulliets in him . now is that justice or is it racism they have video clips for proof. its looks like the sb police department has a lawsuit pending.

TO mrst220, you are a liar, plain and simple. You pretend to know facts when you know nothing. You try and stir trouble with lies and try and inject race into this. He had a gun, it didn’t matter his race you idiot. If you were such a good friend then why didn’t you tell him, “Hey man, leave the gun at home that is not going to help anyone tonight.” You should be charged with accessory for not stopping him. I bet you are a thug too. Was it you that had the gun in your car and were arrested by police? I bet you were. And it is obvious that you know nothing about guns or police. They don’t think “Oh hey did I shoot twice or three times.” They shoot until the criminal can not hurt an innocent person. He got what he deserved; thank God no innocent person was killed by this criminal. One less person out there to rape and rob others is what I say.

For those who think the cops should have used another force option, tell us your experience with human psysiology, and how to prevent someone from pulling the trigger?? Maybe your expertise is from reading a couple Popular Mechanics articles about modern police weapons? Maybe you thinks cops have this super-training so they can quickly subdue 24-year-old armed thugs? You're so eloquent I hope in your spare time you're roaming the streets of Oxnard, convincing creeps to not carry guns, knives, get in fights, use drugs, etc. Hats off to SBPD officers who, when faced with a life and death decision, did what had to be done quickly and professionally.

well i dont really have much of an opinion of the situation but i can tell you that the gun actually fell out of his pants during the brawl and i can also tell you that he was on the ground as the cops asked before the shots were fired into his back...regardless of what you guys think of steriotypes some people feel they need to defend themselves, these guys have been places were people try to kill them everyday, something most people cant even imagine, not even SBPD. not saying anyone was right but theres alot to be interpeted. you can judge all you want but im sure you would probably be wrong.....and one can be discharged from the navy for anything ranging from serious family illnesses to medical reasons. the fact he was carrying a gun only becomes an issue in california because they are so anal about firearms, in many other states you are able to walk into a grocery store with a side arm with no questions asked, the fact that this man was ex military probably means hes originally form another state that most likely has a little more leanient gun laws.......the moral of the story .....dont be quick to judge and dont trust the press

to InTheKnow first of all im a USMC spouse of a marine who went to iraq twice. and as far as wilfred he also served in iraq so that thug went to iraq and fought for your freeom so your the dumb stupid ignorant everything but but the child of god. how would you feel if ot was your child that got killed and if you knew anything you would have known the military are doing there own investigation because the SBPD falled to protect and serve when they killed wilfred. An the tapes and witness states will was on the ground before he was killed. so your the racist for even thinking the cops were rightous. and i hope and pray god have mercy on your soul and if you also knew anything you would have known this own wife set him up so you don't know sh******************

P.S. IT BREAKS MY HEART TO KNOW THE COUNTRY MY HUSBAND AND WILL FOUGTH AND FIGHTS FOR DON'T EVEN CARE IF HE LIVE OR DIE THE MOMENT HE GETS OUT THE MILITARY. YOU CAN CARRY A GUN IN IRAQ BUT DOWNGRADED OR EVEN KILLED FOR CARRYING A GUN IN THE STREETS YOU PEOPLE MAKES ME SICK

Just a question...

Does anyone have any contacts that might, I dunno, leak this supposed video and/or witness statements?

I spoke with several people who were within a half block of the shooting and all of them said the shots were in succession-- not something you would hear if there was a pause, few steps and 3 more shots.

Could he have been on the ground? Could it have fallen out of his pocket? Sure. And he could have been pointing the gun at others from this position. The police statements and your, um, inside info are not mutually exclusive, by any means.

Not for nothing, but I don't imagine that there are many video cameras or security cameras going on State at 11:50pm that can show much of the sidewalk area where things happened, especially what with so many people around blocking the view.

But I could be wrong.

About the subduing without killing...

Ive seen video of crimes where people with guns 1) had the gun shot from their hands, 2) were shot in the knees or arms carrying the guns.

Thing is, this happened after sharpshooters were in position (the first case) and secret service had already taken positions to get a shot (the second).

In both cases, there was time to, well, ready, aim and shoot. And there were not throngs of innocent bystanders within arms reach, let alone the reach of a bullet. Split seconds, or the hesitation of having to ask and get an answer out of a person carrying a gun and aiming it at another, could result in the death of 2-- a victim and a gunman. Explain that to the family of the innocent person.

This is the 2nd time in the last few years where some out of towner brought a gun downtown, and took aim without consideration for others. And more, importantly, they did so without consideration for the ability and willingness of our police officers to neutralize a threat when it arises.

The SBPD and other local law enforcement deserve credit for acting quickly to prevent an act of violence. They also deserve credit for exercising restraint-- how many other agencies have been the target of lawsuits and public outrage because they decided to unload their guns on others? 5-7 shots to take out a guy with a .45 in a crowd is nothing compared to what the some have done.

(Wow, this looks to be the longest "thread" I've seen on the Indy site so far.)

I'm possibly reading more into this than what is there, but it seems as if the meeting of the two groups was not accidental, which would point to the gun as being there to be used--if even only for brandishing (which is also illegal).

CBJOE, did you see the fight? Your comment is the only one that implies that you were there. Are you saying that the suspect was complying with the police, before the final shots, or that he was shot down, and then finished off?

And, mrst220, you sound as though you knew Mr. Turner personally. If so, it makes sense that your posts show a lot of emotional influence, which unfortunately makes them hard to really understand. It's too bad that someone had to die, but I will go with, "he shouldn't have been carrying a gun in the first place". And for anyone who tries to excuse that with, "he's not from here", or "it's different where he's from", you need to rethink that: When in Rome. . . .

Overall, it's too bad that we humans don't usually have the sense to "live, and let live", until a decade or so later.

Actually found the incidents to which I referred...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VrnkkTh4...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2001/02/08/s...

These things don't happen unless conditions are right-- when seconds are your time frame, the threat must be taken out quickly.

Oh, and why was this guy carrying a gun? To keep himself safe? I always liked this one, and it's probably why guns are better kept in the home, or carried by people who know gun safety and how to properly use one, instead of those who think guns are a symbol of strength and authority, a factor in one's own 'cool.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_OtPc4dN...

"They also deserve credit for exercising restraint-- how many other agencies have been the target of lawsuits and public outrage because they decided to unload their guns on others? 5-7 shots to take out a guy with a .45 in a crowd is nothing compared to what the some have done."

That reminds me of the early 90's, when a bunch of cops unloaded on a cow that was blocking the I-5, down above LA. I don't recall which deparment it was (LAPD, Sheriff's Deputies, or CHP), but they definitely emptied some clips. Well, I've worked cattle a bit, and all it usually takes to move them is walking towards them--the exception being if there's a calf involved. Then again, maybe it was packing too. . . .

Anyway, it's unfortunate that the guy lost his life, but as a friend of mine used to say, who was also a Ventura Sherriff's Deputy, "we shoot to STOP". And, as much as I'm usually in the camp that in hindsight says, "they could have done something different", what little is presented here leads me to beleive that this was a justified shooting, under the circumstances.

This message begins to go to sbemt, kcox920, david-e, recovering liberal, santa brutal, carpreader, sb-native and especially to intheknow and the infamous wonarrowfan, first and formost you fools have a lot of nerve to place the most ignorant comments about someone's father, son grandson, brother, nephew, cousin, and friend, there will be a day that you sit back and realize that just because its in the paper doesn't mean that it is true and for the most part just because the police gave the statement that they are true. The police are no different then any other person. Especially in this case the only people that they were protecting and serving were themselves. See i also want to say that the turner family truly believe in god and on that know we know for a fact that when the truth comes out makes sure you dont swallow your damn tongues you bunch of ignorant bastards. You personally dont know anything about wil and i'm sure that you grew up being told that you really shouldn't believe everything you hear but then again the comments made states your ignorance. And in a million years my cousin would have never pointed a gun to an innocent crowd of people and also to let you know he never knew that his enemy was going to be there let alone that he was going to see him or them. See what you fail to realize is that there is investigation for a reason and if you dont have all the damn facts or was not walking with wil himself then maybe you need to keep yah comments to yourself because they are not needed nor wanted. See i am so hurt by loosing my cousin but what hurts me the most is that you bastards have the nerve to wish death upon anyone without even knowing them and to say that it was justice served. Look into how many false incidents by police what makes you a believer this time that they did the right thing , because it wasnt anyone in your family or just because you simply didn't know him. Well i did and i also knew everthing about him and he wasnt a criminal, drug dealer, or drug user, he was a hard working man who totally did not deserve to die. But while you guys are rotting in hell "best believe your time is coming", my heavenly angel wilfred turner will be on the stairway to heaven. To :cbjoe thank you dearly for not jumping to conclusions on your comment and to everyone else who had a positive comment. If the officers did not feel like they were able to control the crowd then maybe they should look into the line of work they are in. I work in this field and we do have bad days or days we just dont feel like working but when it comes down to life or death maybe they should have excused themselves, ask yourself why only two out of many many officers fired shots and why did they continue after he was already down. The courts will have the final say so and i hope the have a back up plan because people dont trust police that are suppose to stop the violence instead of cause it. Thats what we call the crooked cops

InTheKnow first first im going to apologize for calling you everything but the child of god because im walking in a new light and its in the direction of JESUS. I let you bring the devil out of me and that was not what I was trying to do. But will say this to all of you Will was a FATHER, SON GRANDSON, BROTHER, NEPHEW, COUSIN, AND FRIEND. So justice will be served cause no person has more power than god, and god is going to let truth be heard. and for all of you who want to judge ya'll do not have a heaven nor hell to put him in so stop judging and as quoted from john 8:7 " he who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first. "
we server a forgiving god and I know Will is in a better place and he does not have to suffer no more.

P.S. For those of you who believe in humans get to know the lord cause he is coming soon and very soon and one day all of this will be over
god bless and have a blessed life

Hell0 guys im back with another message for you. While the news press states that wilfred have been out of the service since last june, why the hell did he just get out of germany serving his country in january of 2007 sorry people but i dont quite think that the stuff adds up now do you. That is another reason why you really shouldnt believe everything you hear. But also leaders of our cities do we have that they actually jeopadized the lives of many others without a guarantee that no one else would have been hit. Oh but that was justifiable because the target was wilfred and he was shot to be killed. You know you people think you know everything and have so much to say and its a very sad situation. Those officers did not handle the situation in a good way and on that note who am i to judge, just a hurt and angry family member but i have allowed jesus himself to be my leader because i couldn't bear the pain and he will judge them now. Also fyi guys wil never went to fight anyone but sooner or later you will see that a so called group of "3 boys and a 16 yr old female/ one being romantically involved with wilfred's wife" oh they knew exactly what they were there for because it was all a plan from the beginning maybe not for him to die on their behalf but for him to be hurt and i hope the investigation goes well for them and dont forget the oh so faithful wife of his. I hope that you all have a blessed life and remember that the truth will set you free.

There is a saying that you can’t argue with the village idiot, well I guess a caveat to that would also be that you especially can’t argue with the village idiot when they are blinded by emotion caused by being related to the criminal killed by police before he could shoot someone. I’m sure he was a son (and other relations) of someone, all males are, and does that give him carte blanche protection to carry a gun to shoot another? Your argument is nonsensical and idiotic. You are using the old; “the police have been wrong before so they must be wrong now” defense. This is attune to being a racist and a bigot, you are making a predetermined assumption based on past (sometimes decades past) history. And these past wrongs don’t even involve these officers!!!!! That is a very poor argument that I fear most educated people would not buy into. It would be a lot like someone saying that of course he is guilty based on his race, a complete and utter stupid assumption. And then there is the guy who wants to know why more cops didn’t shoot? Are you really that stupid? Does that really prove or disprove anything (well behind proving you level of stupidity that is)? Who are you to say what field of fire that other officers had? How many cops were there? Do you know? Maybe you and the guy complaining that too many shots were fired should get together and figure out which one of you mental midgets are right. And to the girl that professes her love of God (notice the capitalization on the Almighty to show respect?) and her feeling of self-righteousness because she is married to a marine, well sweetheart my father died when I was a teenager defending this country. Does that mean I am more entitled than you to voice my opinion? I bet you were one of those little freckled school girls when you were young on the playground “My dad can beat up your dad!!! Blah blah blah” Please come up with an educated, informed, or intelligent argument instead of some fragments of unrelated ignorant babble. And for the love of Pete, people please stop typing in all CAPITALS; that is the first clue to people of your moronic state.

OH TO MR INTHE KNOW YOU SURE HAVE A WHOLE TO SAY CONSIDERING YOU ACT LIKE YOU WERE THERE ALSO AND FURTHER MORE I DONT HAVE TO USE ANY DAMN EXCUSE FOR THE ACTIONS MADE BY THE POLICE. MENTAL MIDGETS HUH YOU ARE REAL FUNNY YAH DAMN IDIOT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU ARE VERY UPSET ABOUT SOMETHING AND IM NOT QUITE SURE WHAT IT IS ABOUT. YAH SEE I AM ANGRY AND AND THE REASON BEING IS THE FACT THAT I LOST A LOVED ONE AND TO MY POINT IN SAYING THAT WILFRED IS A "FAMILY MEMBER" JUST STATES THAT HE HAD FAMILY THAT CARED DEARLY AND THAT WAS ACTIVE IN HIS LIFE AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION YOU NEROTIC AIRHEAD, NOT EVERMAN DOES AND FOR THAT MATTER NOT EVERYPERSON HAVE AN ACTIVE FAMILY MEMBER IN THEIR LIFE. BUT I DONT QUITE KNOW WHAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE SO MUCH MORE SMARTER THAN I AM. ITS 2007 BUDDY JUST GET OFF OF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND GET OVER YOURSELF. AND BY THE WAY I NEVER DID HAVE FRECKLES AND MY DAD CAN BEAT YAH DAD UP (DEAD OR NOT) AND FOR YOUR REFERENCE I AM A BEAUTIFUL BLCK WOMAN, HIGHLY EDUCATED AND ALSO I OWN MY OWN HOME AND HAVE A WONDERFUL JOB. BLACK AND PROUD AND I NEVER STATED THAT THIS WAS A RACIAL THING BECAUSE I DONT BELIEVE THAT IT IS BUT IT WAS ONE THING AND THAT IS NON JUSTIFIABLE AND SINCE YOU ARE SO UPSET, I AM GOING TO PRAY FOR YOUR SOUL ALTHOUGH IT HAS ALREADY BEEN CURSED. WELL YOU SORRY LITTLE BASTARD YOU SURE DID MAKE MY DAY BECAUSE NOW MY PAIN AND ANGER HAS BEEN TRF OVER TO YOU. BY THE WAY WHY ARE YOU SO MAD? TRUTH HURTS. AND I CAN TYPE ANYWAY I PLEASE IT MUST HURT YOUR EYES. WELL TOO BAD FOR YOU.

This young man died on our streets. I am willing to entertain the notion that there is "his side of the story" even if he was foolish/crazy enough to pull out a gun in a public place well-patrolled by armed police. ... Some of the deepest pain I've ever felt was when an ex-lover found someone new. This guy's wife may have been involved with another man. These aren't excuses, these are factors in all this. He made a terrible mistake (that put innocent bystanders in danger), but he paid for it with his life. Of course his loved ones are emotional. I want them to know there's at least one Santa Barbara native who is saying a little prayer over this tragedy.

Also disturbing to me is that Fiesta has devolved into a dangerous, drunken, police-heavy street scene that doesn't celebrate anyone's culture. Old Spanish Days? I, for one, honor the Chumash traditions and I embrace what was good about the Old Mexican Days.

Good thoughts to the police who unfortunately had to shoot and to Wilfred's family. RIP...

my comment is to BongHit who atleast never contested that Wil did anything right or wrong but the fact that there is two sides to every story and also that other then the true friends that Wil has in California your comment has made the family feel some respect from the people. Wil is originally from Lackawanna, New York and we greatly appreciate your positive thought. thanks you for your prayers.

Whoa now, I've been reading all of these comments, while not taking a position on any. But KEYT just ran a story saying 18 shots were fired by the police, while none were fired by "the man with the gun". And something like eight hit the man. Did the cops even bother to order him to drop the gun? It's clear to me that more information needs to come out on this.

So mslackawana, I'm sorry I thought you were a crazy nutcase, and thanks for dropping the caps.

"FOR YOUR REFERENCE I AM A BEAUTIFUL BLCK WOMAN, HIGHLY EDUCATED AND ALSO I OWN MY OWN HOME AND HAVE A WONDERFUL JOB. BLACK AND PROUD..."

First of all, being "beautiful" simply means you got lucky in the genetics department. As for your race and gender, it doesn't enter in--good or bad. As for being highly educated, what does that have to do with anything?...it's like people who write letters to the editor and sign their name with the title "Dr." when their doctorate has nothing to do with the subject on which they are writing. As for owning your own home, good for you, but the vast majority of the people (at least in S.B.) work their butts off and still can only afford to pay rent. Finally, the opposite of "proud" is humble, and being humble does not mean putting up with abuse, it just means not bragging about your God-given abililities and fortunes.

Whether or not your ugly, pretty, rich, poor, or what your education level is or your race, none of those things determine the validity of the argument one makes. Emphasizing any of these things only reinforces the Caste System in which we alreadly live.

To Mslackawana, you are cute, you say that you are educated and then you type a comment that is so full of grammatical errors and misspelled words that it would leave anyone of intelligence to think differently. You are cunning; you curse me and then call me the one filled with hate. You say that you will pray for me in the same sentence that you berate me as a bastard. You, Mslackawana I have underestimated. First I thought you were merely a moron not knowing better, but now I see you are truly a worthy opponent, not to be toiled with. Look up “sarcasm” in the dictionary and maybe that will help you along in deciphering my comment.

TO INTHEKNOW AND BILLCLAUSEN YOU GUYS ARE REALLY UPSET AND IT IS SO FUNNY TO ME WHEN I S BEGIN TO READ YOUR COMMENTS BECAUSE IT JUST LETS ME KNOW HOW SORRY YOU FOOLS TRULY ARE. I REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO COMING HOME ALSO ON A LONG HARD DAY OF WORK AND READ THE GARBAGE THAT YOU "BASTARDS WRITE". AND SORRY HUNNY BUT YOU BEAUTIFUL WORDS ARE ONLY MAKING ME STRONGER FROM WHAT I SEE YOU SEEM TO BE ONE THAT TALK ALOT ABOUT NOTHING 4REAL. "HIGHLY EDUCATED" I AM. SORRY THAT ITS HARD FOR YOU TO BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE OF MY HIGH STANDARDS AND VERY FEW MISTAKES (CONSIDERING YOUR MENTALLY CHALLENGED DISEASE) THAT YOU'VE NOTICE. I AM GLAD I GOT TO YOU SERIOUSLY BECAUSE THE TRUTH HURTS. AND THE ONLY TRUTH THAT HURTS ME FROM MOST OF THE RUDE AND NONSPRITED PEOPLE'S COMMENTS IS THE FACT THAT MY BABY COUSIN HAD BEEN KILLED BY A POLICE AND AUTOMATICALLY AND PEOPLE CAN BE SO QUICK TO JUDGE WITHOUT KNOWING FOR SURE. SEE NOW, HOW EDUCATED ARE YOU FORREAL YOU "HARD WORKING" IGNORANT LOW LIFE????????????????????????????? HAVE A WONDERFUL NIGHT YAH FOOLS! AND I WILL CHECK IN TOMORROW

Mslackawana writes: "AND THE ONLY TRUTH THAT HURTS ME FROM MOST OF THE RUDE AND NONSPRITED PEOPLE'S COMMENTS IS THE FACT THAT MY BABY COUSIN HAD BEEN KILLED BY A POLICE AND AUTOMATICALLY AND PEOPLE CAN BE SO QUICK TO JUDGE WITHOUT KNOWING FOR SURE. SEE NOW, HOW EDUCATED ARE YOU FORREAL YOU "HARD WORKING" IGNORANT LOW LIFE?????????????????????????????"

Obviously, we have no way of knowing if you are for real or someone having a laugh at the expense of a killing. If by chance you are who you say you are, (since we can't disprove it how would we know?) I'm not "judging" the situation, and have made no assumptions about whether the killing was justified or not. Nonetheless, the flaunting of irrelevant credentials such as being highly educated, beautiful, or whatever, gets a little old.

Posted by equus_posteriori (anonymous profile) on August 7, 2007 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"(Wow, this looks to be the longest "thread" I've seen on the Indy site so far.)"

Indeed that seems to be the case equus, and what's amazing is that our favorite blogger hasn't invaded this thread with their usual ad hominum insults!

Mslacksalot, lets get back to the topic at hand. If you are who you say you are then maybe you can shed some light on things that people have been wondering about. Why did your cousin have a gun (illegally)? Why was he expelled from the military? How many times had he been arrested? Was he trying to kill the man romantically involved with his wife? How many times had this man and Wilfred gotten into fights? People can understand he might have been a good man overcome with rage at the thought of romantic entanglement that his wife was in with this other man. You claim that he was a relative and a good guy, I don’t doubt that, I’m sure Timothy McVeigh and Lee Harvey Oswald were described the same way (these were both past military men incase you didn’t know that either). But I am also sure that good people, at times, make horrible mistakes. Whipping out a gun while involved in a fight I believe could be characterized as being a “horrible mistake”. If you come to that realization then maybe your denial of what really happened might be a little easier to take. But then again you could just respond about your attributes and just waste everyone’s time in trying to decipher your cryptic messages. Can you answer this question; Are you beautiful?

To start, I am not here to let you know how educated I am or how well I can type I would just like to say my peace. I am a friend of wil, the wil I knew was cool, had his friends backs, laughed and cried. He had a son and a family and a bunch of friends. I was not at the shooting however I was at the funeral, I saw a church filled with people who will never spend time with their friend in this lifetime again. The real issue at hand is that a life was taken too soon. Wil was the same age as me and seeing him in that coffin just made me mad. Until the truth comes out from both sides people should not assume that he was out to kill, yeah he had a gun and that may have been stupid but why is it a man running away from a situation was shot that many times? Was he asked to put his weapon down? So many different stories are floating around makes it hard for me to understand how one can post a comment that can so effectively hurt this mans loved ones. Lets stick to the point, a man lost his life.and the ironic thing is he fought for his country and survived only to come home and be killed in the streets of the US. I will always miss wil , my daughter lost a cousin. and i lost a friend. I will be singing praise when the truth hits the fan.

"I'm possibly reading more into this than what is there, but it seems as if the meeting of the two groups was not accidental"

There's no evidence that it was not accidental. There's also no evidence that his gun fell out of his pants, or that he was running, or that he was shot in the back. And there's certainly no evidence of racism or any other conspiracies that are being claimed here.

this comment is to truth machine, the police report states that he was shot while attempting to climb or jump a wall , to me that means he was fleeing the situation, like i said before i wasnt there so i dont know what happened there, but i am close to the family and have been told that he was shot in the back. Check the police report you can find it on all of these sites going around it even names the two police officers involved. Thats what makes this story so sad, so many stories going around and not enough truth goimg with it. one day the truth will escape, hopefully soon so this can be put behind us and everyone can move on

To wilsfriend I can appreciate your postings and your feelings now. I know the loss of a friend is tragic and trying to understand after is often difficult. You sound level headed and your postings are not confrontational, for that I respect your opinion. The only thing that I would like to comment on is your assumption that he was shot in the back since he was hopping over a wall. The wall that they are talking about is about 2 to3 feet high, low enough for people to sit on (I only mention this since you say you were not there). Nowhere in the news articles does it say where the officers were that shot him, where they were positioned. We don’t know if Turner was going towards them or away from them or towards one and away from the other. Also where was the other people fighting, where was the crowd? Was Turner going towards them with the gun? If so that would be a perceived threat that the officers would have a minuscule amount of time to process and react accordingly. But again I appreciate your posts and your viewpoint, I am sorry for the loss that you are suffering.

"this comment is to truth machine, the police report states that he was shot while attempting to climb or jump a wall , to me that means he was fleeing the situation, like i said before i wasnt there so i dont know what happened there, but i am close to the family and have been told that he was shot in the back."

Like I said, there is no evidence that he was shot in the back. Having been told something by someone else who also wasn't there isn't evidence. I live here, and there's no wall to jump or climb; as InTheKnow says, the "wall" there is about two feet high.

"one day the truth will escape, hopefully soon so this can be put behind us and everyone can move on"

It doesn't work that way. People either move on, or they get a notion in their head that they dwell on, quite independent of the facts. Counting on some sort of magical revelation of "the truth" that will somehow enable people putting it behind them and moving on is a fantasy. Wil Turner came to Santa Barbara bearing guns. Wil Turner got into a fight. Wil Turner was shot and killed by police. Wil Turner was an ex-Navy man with family and friends who love and mourn for him. These are all truths. If you expect a lot more, you're bound to be disappointed.

"I DONT QUITE KNOW WHAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE SO MUCH MORE SMARTER THAN I AM. "

All caps, bad grammar, and poor logic are clues.