Eyes on Prop 8

A report just before 9 p.m. tonight from the San Francisco Chronicle indicates that Prop. 8 - the ballot measure that would amend the state constitution to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman - as leading by ten points. These are early numbers, of course, but they indicate that Californian's may have voted differently that most surveys indicate. Most opinion polls leading up to the election indicated a closer margin if not an edge for those opposing the measure.

At the moment, the Santa Barbara County election office is reporting is reporting that voters here are quite nearly split on the matter. With 41 percent of precincts reporting as of the posting of this entry, a slight majority of 51.97 percent has voted no on Prop. 8, while 48.03 percent had voted yes.


Independent Discussion Guidelines

This is not an issue that I can "agree to disagree" on.

I am deeply saddened that what I once thought of as the great state of California - appears to have voted to write in bigoted discrimination into our state constitution.

I never would have imagined that people (friends, coworkers and acquaintances) I once respected and admired - vehemently supported this amendment. My opinions of these people have changed forever.

We despise Al Queda and the Taliban for imposing their religious beliefs on their people and the world - yet we are doing the same in our own country.

I understand that this is an EXTREME comparison, and we are not killing those who disagree with Christian beliefs (except for those who bomb abortion clinics...but they don't count, they are extremists). The Taliban's discrimination against woman (based on their religious beliefs) is abhorred by Americans...our own (religiously based) discrimination against our gay community is acceptable.

Do any of these Pro - Prop Hate (Prop 8) folks think it would be OK if we no longer allow THEIR social security and veteran's benefits be passed on to their spouses?

How about if their inlaws didn't like them? How would they (Prop Hate Supporters) like to be required to hire and pay for an attorney to spell out and guarantee their right to make decisions for their incompetent or disabled husband or wife. No need with a marriage license.

Would these Pro- Prop Hate straight married couples agree to be taxed on transfers and gifts to each other? How about inheritance? Married straight couples are guaranteed to inherit their spouse's estate without a will and are not required to spend a dime to make it happen it's automatic. No attorney necessary.

Let's tax straight married couple's inheritance that is passed on to their spouses. That's what gay couples are subject to. (Inheritance's to spouses of straight "marriages" are not taxed at the federal level "civil unions" are.)

While being married hasn't helped my tax status, filing jointly CAN reduce taxes for some. Let's just take that away from straight couples too. Gay couples cannot file federal tax returns jointly.

So DON'T tell me this isn't discrimination. Giving straight couples specific FEDERAL benefits and denying them to gay couples is discrimination. Civil Union ARE NOT THE SAME as marriage, and are not recognized outside our state.

Just pray for forgiveness and you Prop Hate Supporters will all be OK. Forget how you have judged, hurt and discriminated against so many of God's children. He'll forgive you. They may still be deprived of the benefits YOU have, but you'll be forgiven.

And to the woman who asked me in Ralph's if anchovies are considered shell fish, no dear,I am pretty sure they have fins and scales; you can eat them all you want and not go to hell. But heck, go ahead and have some shrimp have some lobster too. If you ask, you'll be forgiven. God's good that way.

geriv (anonymous profile)
November 5, 2008 at 5:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Congratulations California, you've successfully voted to take away an existing right from a group of people. Where to go next - their right to be in a relationship? How about their right to vote? Why don't you just vote them out of existence while you're at it? Afterwards, you can move on to other minorites you hate.

Don't say that you are in favor of equal rights but add a qualifier that excludes one particular group because you fear them out of blind ignorance.

The passage of Proposition 8 is a result of what is called the Tyranny of the majority. Those of you who voted for this discrimination are tyrants, plain and simple. There are a number of other unsavory things that I can label you with but I don't want to contribute to the superfluous hate already residing within my neighbors' cold souls.

bigyoonit (anonymous profile)
November 5, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Some of the blame in this measure passing goes none other than San Francisco's Mayor, the Honorable Richard Newsom. His remarks ("It's gonna happen! Whether you like it or not!") & tone were taken as a theme of counter-cultural pc arrogance & was effectively used by the "yes on 8" camp in their ads.
The other thing was it was opposition to this measure was made to be an attack on the church (be it Christian, Jewish or Muslim, other, but mainly @ the Christian church).
The way supporters of the measure saw to put it was this: If the courts in CA can overturn the constitutional ban on gay marriage, what's to stop them from favoring a lawsuit against a church who doesn't want to perform or participate in a gay wedding?
The actual attack was seen as 1 on the separation of church & state. It's enough that the state already attacks the private home, but when a designated sanctuary such as a place of worship comes under attack from the state, well...
There's many other factors, but these are some that stuck out like a sore thumb.
In all, it ain't over yet. More initiatives will be put on future ballots. Will Californians vote for them? That depends on how they're protrayed & how supporters act :) henry

hank (anonymous profile)
November 5, 2008 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

... now the craziness is over.

The public has spoken. The word is protected. The insitution is protected and we can now begin the great national mourning for the next 4 years.

I hear Newt will be running the RNC soon... The brand may be temporarily tarnished - but the will is strong and will prevail.

BeachLivin (anonymous profile)
November 5, 2008 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

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