Vicente Fox Speaks to Santa Barbara

“It’s not clear to me what’s the fear; we’re neighbors, we’re friends…What we need to do is build bridges, bridges of understanding."

So let's see: He's a former president of Mexico yet he doesn't get it?

Maybe he can explain why conditions in Mexico bad enough that so many people want to get out of there. Is every problem they have down there the fault of the U.S.?

I don't want to waste my time going over the effect the mass exodus from Mexico has had on the U.S. because it's been rehashed over and over again. As usual, we have a slick-talking politician who for the most part scapegoats America by telling us that we should all shut up and sit down while we see what is happening but apart from suggesting we legalize drugs offers no real suggestions.

Obviously during his tenure things did not significantly improve in Mexico--if at all, so perhaps he should look inward before blaming the U.S. for the failed policies of the Mexican government.

I know that America-bashing is very much in vogue and while certainly criticism can be rightfully aimed at people who exploit the cheap labor market in the U.S. as well as at NAFTA, I think it's fair to say that if the standard of living in one country is terrible and in its neighbor country it's much better than the country with the problems needs to look at how it can improve life for it's own people.

You can't right a ship without knowing it's been capsized. It's dissapointing that he didn't offer more insight into solutions but his hour long talk was hardly enough time to explore any feasible options for the future.

Bill Clausen is RIGHT ON!

This guy is the biggest hypocrite we have had in SB for a while.

He lectures us about our immigration policies while Mexico has the strictest immigration in the western hemisphere.

Any mexican cop can check your immigration status and he doesn't need to even have a reason.

The mexican immigration regularly holds up immigrants from farther south and takes all their money, rapes their wives and then deports them.

The "I just came here to work because my country is a terrible place, but I still love it" has become OLD! How about " Americans are so stupid,,they love to buy the drugs we have in MEXICO. Now we can have health care and SUV's and suck off a system that lets us take advantage". THAT is what is the reality today. It does not matter where, Iowa, Atlanta, Texas, or Santa Barbara. Mexicans take advantage of the "stupid Americans".

That is the reality today!!! sorry

Oldtimer: So it is just the Mexicans doing this? Nobody else is taking advantage of the"stupid Americans" as you say.

All politicians from Mexico are corrupt. You can pretty much blame them for all of the problems that exist in Mexico. I wonder why he didn't speak on that; probably because he was corrupt and knows that addressing the real problem (corrupt politicians) would get him killed. Jeez, whats next an ethics talk from Bernie Madoff?

AZ2SB,, I did not say it was just Mexicans! Americans take advantage of the system too. So do others from around the world. Mr. Fox was here to speak of Mexico and Mexicans. That was the subject of the article. Let's here you defend them AZ2SB. Go to the emergency room in Oxnard,,,see who pays the bill. Go to the school district in Santa Paula, or the Food Stamp office. Try Fresno,, or Salinas, or East LA... Are the People from Mexico taking advantage of our systems or not? It is a yes or no answer. Answer me if you have the guts AZ2SB!

Wow, this story sure brought the experts out of hiding.

Oldtimer:Okay by that reasoning go to Milwakee, Billings, or Fargo and see who are at those same social service offices or hospitals. If you read what you wrote, then you will see you did say just mexicans. It is not fair for you to generalize when not all Mexicans or people of Mexican origin "take advantage" of these social services. Do you see more Mexicans in these social service places-Yes. Is there a large Mexican population in CA- Yes. Are all those people in those social service lines who look hispanic Mexican-No. If you hate Mexicans just say so don't hide it with your ignorant responses.

I have been to Milwaukee,, Billings, and many other places in the U.S. It is the same there. I hate no one. I am just saying that many of the Mexicans in the United states take advantage. When you say "look like" you show your bias. I may be ignorant in your opinion,,,but at least I can spell Milwaukee. I see the Independent removed my comment because they too hide from the truth.

From the LA Times:

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/...

"The current policy discourse that undocumented immigrants are a burden on the public because they overuse public resources is not borne out with data, for either primary care or emergency department care," said Alexander N. Ortega, an associate professor at UCLA's School of Public Health and the study's lead author. "In fact, they seem to be underutilizing the system, given their health needs."

I also recall seeing a study, perhaps by the Pew Foundation, that came to a similar conclusion.

Of course, that isn't to say illegal immigrants don't contribute at all to "overuse" of emergency rooms. But the real problem is uninsured patients and those who can't afford the rising cost of non-emergency medical care. Those patients come in all stripes and colors.

Hey Eastbeach,, I sat in an ER in Phoenix with my son for 26 hrs waiting to be seen. the ratio was 200+ Mexicans ,,,10 to 15 others,,,Mr Ortega needs to get out of UCLA and see the REAL world. There are lots of stripes and colors without insurance,,,, but most of them at the Phoenix county hospital are from Mexico.

Well, that settles that!

"oldtimer" once visited an ER in Phoenix for 26 hours and:

- established a demographic profile based on ethnicity
- polled all the other folks waiting as to their insurance status;
- compiled the relevant stats;

and now he shares it with us.

Thank you.

Well, I had a similar experience at Cottage Hospital's waiting room years ago (although it holds 30 people at most). I'll have to admit, most of them looked Hispanic but I don't think I could tell which patients were illegally here by looking at them.

I'll assume the comment about Dr. Ortega is just based on anger/frustration since UCLA's study is a significant one and in everyone's interest for forming fact-based public policy in CA.

But to me, the immigration issue is a bit of a red herring when it comes to dealing with health care. If health care were magically not available to any illegal immigrants beginning tomorrow, we'd still be in very deep doodoo. Then what? I suppose we could go after people who don't have college degrees - they don't make much money as a group and are a drain on the tax payer when they go to the emergency room (I'm kidding!!).

Oldtimer can tell those fancy-schmany professors a thing or two about research. He didn't even have to spend a dime either.

Trying to get an objective opinion in Santa about race is looking for a needle in a haystack. My reference to one visit in Phoenix is just one story. Do you people ever leave your home base. There is a whole world out there most of you have never seen. Mexico is not as safe as it once was. There is lots of crime. Both criminals and decent people have migrated North. Lots of Mexicans live in the United States. Some take advantage of the United States. Some smuggle drugs, some are gang members, some are decent hard working people. Mr. Fox is a moron,,just like the people of SB who can't see what has happened to this country. A gallon of milk only holds one gallon. We can't take 20 million more.This country has been lost. I hope you all feel the same way when some gang banger kills a member of your family, while you preach for equal rights. Just look at Milpas!!!! If you ever come down from APS!!!!!Where do you think these Mexican gangs get their money? Picking strawberries!! or Mowing lawns!!!They rob, steal, kill, kidnap, and fill up the prisons of America. Most of them are not from Canada.I hope you all vacation in Juarez,,,,,then tell me how much you think of your compadres,Adios Muchachos!

How many family members and friends have you lost to gangbangers oldtimer? Or are those just scare tactics you heard on Rush Limbaugh. Some Mexicans do smuggle drugs, but not all of them. Some Americans and most specifically whites use drugs, but not all of them. Again you are generalizing by saying everybody is a certain way. How about this- mexicans will stop smuggling drugs to the U.S. when U.S. citizens stop using them. After all the drug business is a business not a charity. Nobody in the cartels smuggle drugs to spread the joy.

I bet your real handle should be,,,,mx2az2sb2,,,,whites,,,,whites,,, now I see what you really are!!!! I can see you must love your hermanos carnales!!!!

And? What is your point?

I get the frustration oldtimer. There do seem to be many "bad" things related to our proximity to Mexico. But I think they are often easy scapegoats, especially in poor economic times like these. For example, whatever one may think about Mexico, its hard to deny we've got a huge demand for drugs in our own backyard.

Anyways, I hope that wasn't all directed at me. I grew up on Milpas Street! I do admit I got out of my shell to visit lovely Kansas City recently. They have great steaks but I'd rather be having a Torta at the El Sitio on Salsipuedes St.

EB,,,u r ok,,, just trying to point out that Mr. Foxes,,,let's all be friends is a joke.. We do supply a big market. It is not the fault of poor people . But it is the fault of the Mexican an US officials, and the low life that rob and kill and hide behind " we just came here to work".

Now you are saying something that makes a little more sense oldtimer. When you said you wanted to hear an cbjective point about race I could see a Nazi rant coming on about how certain races have certain attributes. By the way you cannot have an objective opinion, because objective deals with something of substance or truth not opinion. Unless you meant a solution when you said objective, then that might be different.

Fox by name and Fox by nature? This silver tongued politician, an ineffectual leader while flirting with the Bush regime,should now look to his own corrupt and poverty strafed country before insulting us with his advice on how to run ours. He has plenty of material. For starters he could go home and work with the business leaders in Mexico and find employment for the legion who tragically choose to risk death on their journey here, to life in the country of their birth. Our President Carter was not above grasping a hammer and nails to build houses for the needy and if he can roll up his sleeves so can Fox. Brave in front of a polite group of listeners in Santa Barbara, has he the courage to act and stand up to his own countrymen ?

A+ samuel,,,,

Now ain't that the truth.

Look at the travel alert to Mexico issued by the state department today. Increased Violence was the reason. Anyone think there is a connection between Mexican violence there and violence here? Any common denominators? Just asking!!!

I guess its no surprise the travel alert says the violence is related to cartels fighting among themselves for control of the cocaine smuggling channels from Central America to the US & Canada, and with government security forces:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa...

There's tons of data & stats on crime and immigration issues at Univ. of San Diego's Transborder Institute:

http://www.sandiego.edu/peacestudies/...

I've read some articles about how the drug wars are in a way self-sustaining for the drug cartels. So many kids from families shattered by the violence become easy pickings to end up as cartel grunts. Kind of like in the excellent movie "City of God" (although its set in the favelas of Rio de Janeiro).

I have no idea what the solution is. If you think about it, the cartels are worth billions and have tremendous influence. If one doubts that, just think about how much influence the money and lobbyists of the big US corporations and trade groups have on our own government. And they don't even use guns - well, maybe the NRA :)

I am NOT going to get involved in this discussion in any way.

Violence in Mexico is the responsibility of their Government. Clearly they have no idea how to control it, that is apart from sending over an impotent ex- president to explain to us that it is all our fault anyway. One cannot assume they will succeed any time soon. Clearly It is up to our Government to take control, to preserve the safety and security of our borders and to protect us, the citizens of the US, from criminal infiltration. If the State Department warns one it is not safe to travel in a certain area the message seems crystal clear. DANGER KEEP OUT works fine for most outside the cage of a cute and fuzzy looking 300 pound Orang-outang, but there will always be those who choose to ignore and argue the obvious.

Perhaps the State Department should issue a warning for U. S. citizens not to travel in parts of their OWN country. Look at the kidnappings in San Diego, and other areas in proximity to Mexico. I don't see this problem near Canada. The problem is not only the Mexican government, but it is our own government. This problem of Mexican crime is out of control, both in Mexico and in the United States. We have been placed in an unsafe position because of the United States refusal to deal with Mexicans committing crime in the United States. That is a fact,,,and if you want to ignore it,,that is YOUR problem.

Hasn't there been more known terrorist captured on the Canadian border than the Mexican border? The violence in the border can be summed up to one thing-DRUGS. Maybe we should just let the CIA do it since the cartels are doing such a terrible job at it.

Among unsubstantiated and dim points you make within your posts, 'oldtimer,' this one is particularly wrong:

"We have been placed in an unsafe position because of the United States refusal to deal with Mexicans committing crime in the United States."

We lock up both illegal and legal Mexicans at an alarmingly high, and based on costs and the history, ineffectual, rate.

In 2009, we had over 19,000 illegal immigrants in its prisons and jails. Some sources say one in every 36 men of Hispanic origin in the US are locked up. And the nationwide incarceration rate is the highest per capita in the world--25% of the WORLD's jailed population are in the USA.

So, "refusal to deal" is exactly the wrong way to put it.
It also seems clear throwing more people in jail is not the solution to the problems associated with illegal immigration, no matter how easy it is to spit out that talking point.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-...

http://www.onlineeducation.net/incarc...

Well, Chester,,,,yo seemed well versed on this. What would your solution be?

Bye the way Chester, my points may be unsubstantiated and dim,,,,however that does not make them wrong.

If they are unsubstantiated they would be wrong. Jeez, look at dictionary before mimicking your favorite Fox news commentator.

Unsupported by other evidence in a short comment,,,is not the same as unsupported by life in the REAL world,,,,a place where people like AZ2SB has never been.

Adios, lovers of Mexicans who come here to rob, steal, kill, kidnap, rape, and more,,,,, may you all pay the price of your ignorance. oldtimer will leave you to your liberal bias that has helped to ruin America,,,,,

There he goes goose-stepping off to the sunset.....

with his "objective opinion" and the "real" truth.

Wow, it's didn't take long for 'oldtimer' to shed his cloak of dumb but civil conversation and reveal his essence.

He'll be back.*

----------------------------------------
*(I say that with the full knowledge it will cause smoke to come out of 'oldtimer's' ears, as his tiny brain is torn between sticking to his promise to leave, and the sad need to return and toss more spitballs.)

Don't taunt him he might go crash a plane into an IRS building.

Article was on Vicente Fox's address. I think he has a point to legalze and tax at least marijuana. Thinking govenment will solve social problems is a fantasy. They simply pass and enforce laws imperfectly and rarely impartially. Corrurption and incompetence are to be expected not a surprise. wake up people. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.