Carpinteria School Board to Decide Mascot Issue

I love seeing young students empowered to express their rights. Although deep seeded community spirit runs the gambit in Carpenteria, I find it wonderful that there is still a Native American voice coming from our youth.

I'm trying to figure out how Carpinteria High School celebrates it's Native American roots, if not by respecting its people and their beliefs. It is so crystal clear to me how these racial issues got put in place, more in a time when racism was less subtle. This change will be good for all.

Eli is a brave young man and his family should be commended for raising him in the Native traditions. I am an educator in Indiana but lived in Santa Barbara and graduated from UCSB. Ultimately the side favoring mascots want to keep the "team spirit" for sports. So, sports are more important than the overwhelming evidence that race based mascots are harmful to the education of all students. Got it. And the outsiders who support Mr. Cordero? Wonder what country Mr. Panizzon's family hails from? I am guessing that the Carpenteria Mafias would be OK with him. Have a mascot with slicked back hair dance out singing a tune with Cosa Nostra prominent in the lyrics. Students chanting to the other team "rub-em-out" or "fuggedaboutit" when the other team scores? Outsiders changed the south from the parochial racism that plagued the ignorant locals. Outsiders must also teach in the schools since there is no college in Carpenteria. Outsiders ship food, gas, and other goods to Carpenteria. Oh, I get it, outsiders are welcome only if they bring something needed or wanted to the town. Well, in this case, you need some learning. And the first thing to learn is Indians are no longer honored by the macot. Children in school suffer from the use of that mascot. As an educator, the last is convincing enough for me.

Not to nitpick folks, but it's CarpInteria, not Carpenteria.

That aside, as a former student of this high school, and someone who still resides in Carpinteria AND being of partial Native American descent myself, I think I can see both sides of it.

From my perspsective, though, until this person spoke up, I never really saw the Warrior symbol or mascot as anything but a source of pride, a nod to the heritage of the area.

I have to wonder if I'm not alone in thinking that perhaps it's an overreaction based on VALID concerns about how native Americans are portrayed in symbol.

I might be able to understand it better if the association with a Warrior were extremely negative, violently sterotyped or antiquated. But, it's not. I'm sure the case might be made that Native Americans, particularly Chumash were incredibly peaceful people, but history and other symbolic portraiture of them made by Native American groups shows them as proud, and somewhat warrior-like. I wonder if the symbol could be changed to reflect a more agraian individual that is in keeping with the realism of what Chumash life was like in the valley.

By the time I was attening Carp High in the late 1980s, there were no Indian chants at sports events or overtly arcane references to Indians. I never felt that Warrior Pride was anything other than a noble symbol.

I'm still confused as to how this "hurts children" but I do feel encouraged that there are still children who are willing to stand up for something they believe in, whether or not that belief is something I agree with.

It saddens me that this has brought out the worst behavior of the adults in the community.

I think the saddest part of this entire issue is that people don't seem to have the introspection to realize that sometimes a symbol isn't as important as the collective mindset of a town. In this case, it's turned nasty and that's much more offensive than that old statue ever could be, in my opinion.

Could we live without these symbols of Native American Indians? What would we gain? What would be lost if we were to abandon them? American Indians would feel less ridiculed and stereotyped as bucked toothed, savages, and or stupid if we did not use them. We as Americans would accomplish removing one more reminder of our past insensitive and inappropriate behavior. Maybe it would help to restore some of the self esteem taken away from the American Indian people. The removal of these reminders of our racism could help heal the rift between American Indians and white people. Our Schools would be forced to give up a traditional mascot and find another. Maybe these schools have had these mascots for generations? It is their own sense of history that would have to be set aside. Booster clubs, athletic teams, and retailers would lose revenue in items already manufactured. I guess the biggest loss would be to the fans that saw these mascots as familiar. Familiarity is important in people accepting anything. A person feels connected to an event or community with the use of symbols. In this case, the use of mascots are the symbols athletic teams use to help build cohesiveness with their fans.

I think American Indian racism continues today for the all the wrong reasons and is totally unacceptable. As a government we have spent billions of dollars to teach awareness of African American heritage, African American history, and we even celebrate African American leadership. What we seem to be incapable of is celebrating an indigenous people such as Native American Indians. What do we teach our children in American Indian Heritage Month? Most people don’t know there is one. Where are the American Indian leaders? In my opinion, the major reason racism continues today is we have hidden our shame. Our shame is the American Indians. We have made them invisible to us. The reservations are in very rural areas. Our education of their culture is nonexistent in suburban schools. Until there is a civil rights movement that centers on the Native American Indian there will continue to be Indian racism.

Certainly most rational people can see both sides of this, but the fact of the matter is that one side feels diminished by this symbol and that must take precedence. What if the symbol were of a Jesus Christ with a crown of thorns and a cross? How would the current supporters of the mascot symbol feel then? Of course this is a ridiculously extreme example, or is it really? People have to realize that it is sometimes extremely hard to understand other people's viewpoints because of our own biases. I hope Eli prevails as this is the correct outcome.

Native1, there is a flaw in your logic at the outset. You assert that being "part Native American" allows you to see the issue in a unique way. The flaw is this. I am part Irish but that does not give me an intrinsic view of Irish politics nor does it allow me the genetic disposition to "see" anything about issues in northern Ireland. That is part of the problem. People who don't know and, like you, don't know that they don't know but think they do, you have no idea what it is like to BE American Indian. If you were true to the heritage you claim you would BE American Indian not PART American Indian. Do you know the tribe you claim? If you do then what are your connections? Do you know anything about your history or language? If your answer is no to those important questions then your unique view comes simply from the questionable osmosis of having an Indian in your family tree. I admire your attempt to "see both sides" but the fence on which you are trying to sit is both narrow and pointed. You are either for a mascot which has proven to be harmful to education but provides sports fanatics a chance to act like horses azzes at football and baseball games. Or, you support that smidgen of Indian blood you claim and do something other than sit on the sidelines and not cheer a fundamentally racist image. By the way, the only creature who can successfully sit on a fence is a bird. And those people can rightfully be called "bird brains."

This kid is about as much Indian as I am. Are you Indian just because you say so? Please!

I wish Eli the best with his quest to get rid of degrading ethnic stereotyping in our school system.

Stay standing proud!

If the mascot is insulting to Native Americans it should be changed. Since Native Americans have been an abused and discriminated minority any represtantions of them are suspect. My chidlren are Spartans. Their maternal grandparents were born in the Greek town of Sparta. They are not insulted anytime a high school or college team uses a Spartan mascot no matter how historically inaccurate or comical. Likewise Irish people never seem to be offended by Notre Dame's mascot of a fighting leprechan.

I spent the first 21 years of my life in Carpinteria. I attended and graduated from Carpinteria High School. I never heard a single derogatory statement from any of the faculty in my life. Year after year I was taught about the history of the Chumash of the area. I was proud to live in a region that held that history in such high esteem. I strongly believe the use of the Warrior name, while a little naive, helped me grow a connection to the area and the Chumash people.

I understand why Native Americans feel that use of imagery can be considered racist but I honestly feel that the Warrior name has always been used as a source of respect and honor, not as simple imagery used to portray a racist concept of Native Americans.

After graduating I went to college on the North Coast. This is were I learned of actual racism towards the indigenous people of this country. While there are very few Chumash remaining in Carpinteria, there are many Yurok, Hoopa and other native peoples living on the rivers of Northern California. Their day-to-day life is still a fight against institutional racism and the rulings of the government against their needs for the water we use to grow our wine and crops. If you are concerned about racism against the indigenous peoples of our country, spend some time reading about their politics and spend your energy helping with this fight.

It takes very little energy to accuse people of racism when you don't know them. But to fight against them when you don't know them might be a waste of time. This energy could be used to help people feeling the real effects of our government's racism in our name.

Lou Pannizon is a great man who gave his life to help with the raising of the children of the area. To speak of him in such ignorant ways belittles the efforts he has put forth for our area. He spent his career giving and teaching the "Warrior Spirit," a way of life that respects the people around you and the effort you put forth to succeed. While the name may change, that "Warrior Spirit" will never die. It lives in all of us who have come from Carpinteria and have been raised with that respect.

I hope that this issue will not be a waste of time. If you do feel strongly against the use of the Warrior name, I do not belittle your views. I just hope that you are not using this as a way to deal with the shared burden of our history. But if that is the only reason, it is an easy way out. If you want to make a real difference, educate yourself on the important issues our indigenous people face today and work to help them.

I do wish Eli the best, if you feel strongly about something fight for it. I understand being on the side of the minority. As someone who fights for our environment, I know what it is like to fight an uphill battle. I commend you for taking that fight on personally. Please just don't think that the people around you are against your community because they want to keep the Warrior name. To them it is much more than a portrayal of a people. To them it is who they are.

Oddly enough, the kids in Carpinteria tell me that Eli does not even go to Carpinteria High School, he is home schooled instead.

What's next? Will we bow to pressures from P.E.T.A. to remove mascots and images of Bears, Lions, Dragons, and Beavers too?

Anyone that thinks the icon that has symbolized pride and honor at Carpinteria High School for so many years is somehow degrading obviously has not actually seen it, let alone been there.

I heard the same thing about Eli.

Carpinteria deserves to keep things as they are.

I find it sad that the "offensive" symbols are the best of what can be shown to represent a native group of People, who inhabited this land before it was called America. And while I even agree that the use of the logos on floormats and trinkets is not very honoring to those it is supposed to represent, I feel that the positive aspects of keeping the imagery should outweigh the negative ones--even at the cost of hurting the sensibilities of some.

The reason I believe this, is due to there being so little that remains to show that there even were natives here, prior to European immigration. Retaining the Amer-indian imagery at least provides some small evidence of a connection to the past, whereas removing the imagery is just another step in erasing the truth of those People who settles the lands before the destruction of their society (-ies).

The really disgusting thing, is how the importance of this controversy is, while the actual plight of the Native American tribes is hardly considered. Personally, I consider it ridiculous, that the U.S.A--at least, the political entity--always bends over backwards for the Israelis, while we continue to keep people on "reservations". Why don't we view the conquering of North America as a holocaust, as much as the Holocaust?--oh yeah, because *our ancestors* (and therefore, us) gained from it.

Another thing:

The mid-western lands of the Louisana Purchase were bought from the French, and the Mexican Cession (incl. California), were deeded over at the end of the Mexican-American War--the lands were claimed by Spain, but I guess still called "Mexican". I don't know how the boundaries of these areas were decided, but I'm sure that the native tribes didn't have a say in the transactions. [Note: I seem to recall that an episode of Schoolhouse Rock showed the LP completed through a trade of a chest of baubles to Indians, although I may be mis-remembering this.]

Again, the point of all this is, that the Native People of North America got screwed, and while some people find the use of "Indian" imagery to be offensive, it remains as a shrinking testament to those who lived here prior to coming of the British, French, and Spanish.

Lastly, while I'm rambling, has anyone considered how the Mexican Immigration "problem" the U.S. currently faces, is similar to the European Immigration from the past?

Hey carpnative, you went to college? Get your money back because your logic makes no sense at all. As for me offending the Italian guy? My point exactly. When the shoe is on the other foot it is "desrespectful." Got it. As for the PETA comment? Thanks. Indians in the same category as animals. Got that also. If these responses are the sum total of education and learning at Carp High? Get your money back and certainly focus on something more than sports and racist mascots. I am an educator, disrespect for students and their backgrounds are not OK to me. It hijacks the learning process. We have a functional illiteracy rate creeping over thirty percent. And the most worked up parents get at Carp High is a mascot. Got that. Fight for a mascot while graduating students who can't read, can't display the basic tenets of a debate and put statements out there that cannot even be understood.

It IS quite simple really. If the mascot was 'American vision of an African' or 'American vision of an Asian' from the 50s, it'd be long gone.

Mr. Panizzon's comment is idiotic. I can't believe he's an educator. There's a big difference between the offense of racism and smoking and Mr. Panizzon apparently doesn't possess the faculties to comprehend the difference between a social habit and a personal attack on a race of people. My son played high school baseball in the area and having to attend games at Carpinteria High was always a humiliating task. I tried to use it to educate those not familiar with the culture, but it's difficult when your local community is being educated by the likes of Mr. Panizzoni.

Why stop at the mascots? You're are all living on stolen Chumash land.

Without knowing Eli Cordero, I feel that it would be best to not use these symbols, so I take his side on this issue. I would also take this a step further and suggest that faux-liberal Santa Barbara stop talking about "diversity" and "tolerance" while it celebrates Fiesta which commemorates the Spanish coming here forcing those who lived here to subject to their rule, or else. Oh wait, sorry, too much $$$ to be made in Fiesta.

rc251 wrote on March 13, 2009 at 2:41 pm.: "Why stop at the mascots? You're are all living on stolen Chumash land."

rc: I won't assume where you live (such is the wonder of the Internet--connecting people all over the world) but if you live anywhere in the western hemisphere, and are of ethnicity other than that of pre-columbian folks that were here, than you too are living on stolen land. I hear White folks who are on a guilt trip saying how "we" stole this land, but of course I don't see them packing their bags to go back to their ancestral homelands because obviously the self-deportation of 200 million plus people would be a logistical nightmare.

It was a sarcastic jab at the, as you put it, faux-liberals that occupy Santa Barbara. I agree with what you said about Fiesta too.

Johnnie, the bubbles mean the names are below the comments.

Here's the bottom line: It doesn't matter whether Eli Cordero is part Indian, all Indian, or what anyone else is. Just as nobody owes anyone anything based on race/ethnicity, one should not treat or potray anyone differently on the basis of these qualities.

If Cordero has a valid point--and I think he does--who cares if he's Irish, Cherokee, Serbo-Croatian, or any combination of the above?

On the other hand, nobody should feel guilty because they belong to a politically incorrect demographic; I know, I wasted much of my life doing this.

On the other hand, if Indians are to be stereotyped by school logos, why not hit everyone? Think of all the ethnic groups in this country that can be stereotyped: Blacks, Italians, Koreans, English, and the list goes on and on. The fun would never stop. Come to think of it, there are so many ethnic groups to stereotype it would be a lot easier to do away with negative sterotypes--of *all* ethnic groups.

From a Sports Illustrated poll done a few years ago:

...although Native American activists are virtually united in opposition to the use of Indian nicknames and mascots, the Native American population sees the issue far differently. Asked if high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames, 81% of Native American respondents said no. As for pro sports, 83% of Native American respondents said teams should not stop using Indian nicknames, mascots, characters and symbols. Opinion is far more divided on reservations, yet a majority (67%) there said the usage by pro teams should not cease, while 32% said it should.
-------------

So there is a serious disconnect between the "activists" and the rest of the Indian Nation, no real surprise there huh?

Racism also needs to have "intent" as a component. Can anyone honestly see the intent of Carpinteria High School as being racist or even derogatory at all?

...and to the twit that twisted my words around to say that Indians were the same as animals? That is certainly not what I said.

There's a forest people.
Do you have a choice whether to fund a school when you disagree with its mascot. No. One size fits all? The common good?
If the school was a business, you could boycott it. If enough people sent their kids to the competition, they'd either change the mascot or go out of business. But, no, they get funded either way.
The real problem is the coercive funding of the false idea of public property and public school. Tyranny of the majority; just vote to impose your ideals on your neighbor.
This is no different than sex-ed, creationism, ROTC, prayer......you pay whether you like it or not.

carpnative, thanks for the heads up.

cartoonz, you did say that "what's next" PETA making us remove, and thus it is a comparison. The Sports Illustrated survey was done seven years ago has been exposed as a fraud, and so on and so on and scoobie doobie doo. Here is the link for an analysis of the flawed methodology of the SI article:

http://www.aistm.org/fr.2002.of.polls.ht...

story chased by Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-...

Ask 'Eli Cordero ', what he would approve of in regards to an appropriate masscot for Carp. School.
True the image could recieve a spusing-up but a Proud Indian leading young minds to victory, would have me feeling full of pride, not of shame.
I guess, if you have to be PC, then NO mascot would be appropriate.
Eli Cordero, you have stated that feel disrespected over the use of the icon, how would you promote your heritage's image?
If you were given to promote the True Chumash Indian image in a positive manner, what would you do?
I can see, NO door-mats, NO place-mats but if you offer a neggitive can you also offer a positive turn on your offended spirit?
I view the image of the Warrior with respect, not with disrespect. I have come to know that NOT all Indian Chiefs are War-Chief's but leaders of their tribes that had to take up arms to survive and prevail, to keep their people safe from hostile forces; including the 'Blue Coats'.
I ask you Eli, what do you suggest would be appropriate?

dou4now

The symbol of an American Indian warrior is in no way racist.

Removing symbolic and historic proud American Indian statuary will simply bring Carpinteria one step closer to every other strip mall defining South Coast beach town with absolutely ZERO special character.

If there were more folks of American Indian decent living locally, I'm sure they'd side with the preservationists over a few left wing politically correct attention seekers.

BeachLivin's comment is

"carpineteria deserves to keep things as they are"

As if the Chumash had any say in keeping things the way they were for thousands of years. The bottom line is that those with the guns make the rules. Given all that Native Americans went through, don't they deserve a voice? If even one of them feels disrespected or humiliated by this imagery, why not get rid of it?

So what if the mascot changes, is that really going to ruin all of your high school memories? If all you got out of high school was "warrior pride" and football stories, I feel sorry for you...

Johnnie,

Since you asked, I do know exactly what tribe my Indian blood comes from, and exactly the route I can trace back through part of my family on one side. I don't actually feel that this makes me Native American in full just as I don't feel that the Russian or Scottish heritage that is traceable in my family makes me anything other than what I am.....a mix of several different cultures and nationalities, but also just an American.

I think you completely negated your argument when you chose to decide how I should view myself or that I wasn't capable of having a divided opinion on the subject simply because of what YOU classify as Native American.

One doesn't have to be any certain nationality or background to understand, empathize with or disagree with this issue. And, it's certainly not up to others to decide how much of an "Indian" others are.

Would the protesters prefer a bust of Christopher Columbus, the guy primarily responsible for wiping out American Indians and their tribes throughout the country?

Some folks will always find something to complain about, that's for sure.

How about making US your mascots? Dolphins are probably the most politically correct mascots available!

Come to think of it, since we are talking about a school logo, and a group of dolphins are called a "school" of dolphins, our suggestion makes all the more sense.

You can't steal Main school's mascot. That wouldn't be very nice. They are an intelligent animal, worthy of recognition.

Carpinteria votes to continue mocking and disrespecting American Indians. Welcome to Uneducated, Racist High.

I believe the correct terms is native american people. Saying someone is Indian is referring to their native land to be India.

Eli is doing a very brave thing, fighting against this, and I congratulate him for that. However, we cannot censor every thing that might insult a person, if anyone has read Fahrenheit 451 they will know what I mean. He has the right to feel offended, but how it is offensive is something I don't quite understand. My best friend is a Native American, and he has no problems with things like this, or the rest of his family. I know I personally would feel proud that my heritage was honored to be a school mascot. The mascot is not something that people poke fun at, but something the whole school is proud of. High School mascots are not something to be ashamed or offended by. Like I said above, where is the image of a Native American disgraced? To me, it seems like it is respected. Now, when he said that the feathers were sacred to his tradition, that is a little different. If sacred things are being portrayed as a little bit commonplace, then that could possibly be altered. They probably shouldn't remove the warrior as his school's mascot.