Shout Fest Over Health Care

Too bad there isn't the guts to have a similar rally protesting Capps' support of illegal aliens and the government's mass issuance of work visas despite high unemployment.

mindlessness. how is shouting gonna help? Sounds like the "debates" of the 60's....

Freedom of speech means the freedom to have your point of view heard - shouting down is the opposite. If someone has something worthwhile to say, then there would be no need for shouting.

I was there and I heard intelligent discussion from the small and courageous folks who stood up to the pro-entitlement crowd. We read sections of HR 3200 while the people in matching government funded "advocacy groups" T-Shirts waving printed signs chanted "Yes we can!" and "Free Health Care Now" in an attempt to impede our First Amendment Rights. We had health care professionals express their concerns about HR 3200 and offer alternative solutions to improving our current system. The No Fed Med crowd was obviously better informed and willing to identify themselves. The astro-turf folks from PUEBLO, America Works, etc. are clearly projecting when they claim those of us who oppose this legislation are lobbyists and special interest groups.

"INTELLEGENT DISCUSSION"?!? Justin Trevis' behavior was despicable and disrespectful. Video of him deriding a person who just lost their job/healthcare. So proud of himself he had to then sing "God Bless America". All that was missing were the jackboots. DISGUSTING.

I was in the frontlines of the protest. One anti-reform woman confessed she was being paid to be there. She also called a person who identified himself as a schoolteacher as a leach on the taxpayers. Ironic that Tevis accused Capps with whom he was happy to be photographed with a few days prior, of "buying support".
Tevis and other antireformists openly ridiculed people with disabilities. But how much compassion or empathy can you expect from someone who also ridiculed a fellow candidate for showing emotion over the suicides of two friends. Is that really representative of the type of people we are or want to have in Santa Barbara much less in our government? They also employed Nazi style infiltration tactics on the Reformist protesters.
While I value debate and dissent, I require facts and civility- none of which did I oberserve or experience by the hugely outnumbered antireformists crowd. In fact they were decidedly anti-intellectual in attitude, as evidenced by that aforementioned woman.
I would think these people would be ashamed of themselves. Antireformist commentators on all sites keep boasting how the reformist crowd was allegedly" anonymous yet none use their real names!
I however, have no fear of them or their tactics or corporate leashholders, so proudly sign me (easily verified!),
Ken Volok

For once I agree with JohnLocke - there is no real "debate" just mindless shouting. How can real discourse ever happen? The right doesn't want real discussion. They seem intent on shouting exagerrations and lies.

The past newscycle has been dominated by two stories from the right that have nothing to do with what would actually improve our government or society:
1. Obama is not American but actually Kenyan/Indonesian
2. Obama wants to establish "DEATH PANELS" filled with union leaders no less (probably gays and hollywood execs too) to kill off the sick and elderly

I have to say to the anti-reformers: Congratulations! You Won! I don't want to talk to you anymore.

I'd like to see that video of Mr. Tevis. Good to know it is on tape- his typical behavior towards those he disagrees with. A boy in a mansuit.

And those poor maligned protesters who, in spite of their PA, had their First Amendment rights threatened by sign waving chanters. What is this world coming to!

Beatles songs- ironic choice considering the guys came from an evil socialist country.

These negative comments are posted by the same people over on the noozhawk site. A noisy few. Say it often enough and someone might believe it I guess. No one wants free health care and no one chanted free health care. We chanted Health Care Now. Why were these people allowed to shout on a megaphone from atop a pickup truck on a city street in the middle of the afternoon? That's not first amendment - that is DISTURBING THE PEACE.

Next would someone from that side please explain where you see no health care reform spelled out in the Constitution? It says to "provide for the GENERAL WELFARE" If you don't have access to health care you do not have your general anything.

Did you see where someone set up shop at the Staples Center in LA for a week to provide health care to poor people? Report that!!! There were people crying who can't afford a doctor!!!

I would love to engage the other side in a real debate regarding healthcare reform. As a single-payer activist, I'm sure we both share many things to complain about in the current legislation. Unfortunately, the other side has reduced itself to arguments that have nothing to do with facts: death panels, entitlements, completely bogus statistics (I cringed as I heard some woman reading off stats that have been thoroughly debunked about cancer rates and health outcomes in other countries compared to ours), and thinly veiled ad hominem attacks on Obama (sometimes not so thinly veiled). I will say the smallish anti-reform crowd at this particular event seemed relatively subdued, probably because they were vastly outnumbered. It is ironic that even though they too realized that some sort of reform is needed, they insist on defending the exact part of the system that needs the most reform - private insurance. Often you will hear that we simply can't revamp 17% of the economy, but the private insurers actually only represent a fraction of that as 80% of the money they receive actually gets to the providers (yes, they keep 20% of your premiums, folks). So, given that Medicare and the VA represent a significant chunk of that 17%, we are really only talking about 2-3% of the economy, at most, and we are talking about revamping, not eliminating (although the private insurers would be eliminated, many former employees will be needed in the new system since everybody will be covered).

Anyone who would like the video of Mr. Tevis can email pezzle@cox.net.

An excerpt from the best argument against the current SHAM of healthcare reform that I've read yet:

"With a projected $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009, several trillions more in deficits projected over the next decade, and with both Medicare and Social Security entitlement spending about to ratchet up several notches over the next 15 years as Baby Boomers become eligible for both, we are rapidly running out of other people's money. These deficits are simply not sustainable. They are either going to result in unprecedented new taxes and inflation, or they will bankrupt us.

Rather than increase government spending and control, we need to address the root causes of poor health. This begins with the realization that every American adult is responsible for his or her own health. Unfortunately many of our health-care problems are self-inflicted: two-thirds of Americans are now overweight and one-third are obese. Most of the diseases that kill us and account for about 70% of all health-care spending-heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes and obesity-are mostly preventable through proper diet, exercise, not smoking, minimal alcohol consumption and other healthy lifestyle choices."

SEE: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424

Maximum is correct in that we do need to addrees the root causes of poor health in our country. Ending tobacco subsidies would be a good start. But for a wider, long term benefit, the obvious solution is to at the very least roll back the Bush tax cuts; but if we really want both our government and our society to move towards solvency and prosperity for all then you will also have to roll back the Reagan tax cuts, which was deliberately intended to fiscally sabotage the US Government.
Anyone with any kind of historical memory or hwho has done even the most basic research also realizes that if there's any hope for California, prop. 13 must also go. Some of the biggest advocates for eliminating prop 13 and the Reagan/Bush tax cuts that I personally know are wealthy people who understand that a crumbling infrastructure has a negative effect on everyone. Those tax cuts were designed to promote privatization instead of the public good.
We could also stop paying Blackwater to terrorize Iraqis for an instant savings.
The government is supposed to be by and for the people, not corporate entities. The government is also constitutionally mandated to protect the welfare of the people and that includes health, a healthy enviroment, basic infrastructure, and protection against enemies foreign and domestic. On that last note, I think it's only fair to remind everyone that the definition of terrorism is an attempt to scare a populace be it with a bomb or gross disinformation and a ginned up pro/amateur flash mob to achieve a political objective.
Ken Volok

UZK, it is unbelievable to hear how idealistic, naive, and childlike people like you are.

Most average homeowners would not be able to afford living in California without Prop. 13. I don't know if you are a homeowner or not, but why put an overbearing tax burden on the average working-class homeowner? Or do you believe that Prop. 13 only helps 'wealthy' property owners and businesses? Grow up!

Who do you think creates jobs, poor people? No. Small businesses owners do, like myself and many others. And so do those 'evil' corporations. These businesses are taxed to the hilt and people like you want to raise them! The corporate tax rate should be zero. Yes ZERO. Do you think businesses pay those taxes out of their own pockets? They pass them on to the consumer, as they should. So you, the consumer, ends up paying your governments' taxes on business. Knowing that, the real question should be, how much more in taxes are YOU willing to pay?

Own a business, stick to a budget, and make a payroll before you start telling others about how they should pay more to their government for services they do not want.

-Rob

Sorry, EZK not UZK.