Feds Take Down Eastside Gangsters

hmm I wonder if all the people who ever posted that SBPD or Chief Sanchez doesn't do enough on the gang problem will comment? Seems like they brought the hammer down by going Federal.

Good job SBPD!!

Or the Feds got fed up with SBPD not doing enough to protect the citizens. Either way it's a good start.

I thought Chief Sanchez said he would quit if he had to enforce Federal immigration law. But now he's cooperating with ICE and let them arrest 4 illegal alien gang members???

revisionist, if you could supply that quote it would give a little gravity to your comment (or leave it be and live up to your screen name).

Until that time, here's a quote I found:

"I think if we continue to focus on the small percentage that causes the majority of the problems, and come after them with everything we’ve got, I do not see the reason for a gang injunction."
http://www.independent.com/news/2007/aug...

It sounds like Sanchez delivered on his promise to some degree (the significance of which will play out), without an injunction.

Well, to give Revisionist her due, this is a quote from the Daily Sound on July 22, 2008: "One student asked what the role of the local police department is in enforcing immigration law. Sanchez said these laws are typically enforced by federal agencies, but some cities have taken up the task. Just don’t expect the Santa Barbara Police Department join that camp anytime soon.
“I have said if they ever make me do that, it’ll be the day I quit,” Sanchez said."

However, I absolutely don't believe that Sanchez was saying that he didn't believe immigration law should be upheld--he was saying that it's the job of federal agencies, not local police. And what's happened in Operation Gator Roll is a perfect example of multiple agencies working together, with ICE doing what they're supposed to do about illegal immigrants. Revisionist shouldn't be surprised at the way this played out.

What are they doing about mobbing and gangstalking and that some sites say the cops are in on it?

"hmm I wonder if all the people who ever posted that SBPD or Chief Sanchez doesn't do enough on the gang problem will comment?"

Yes I will comment! Would he have done this if it weren't for all those people that posted? It's about time what on earth have they been waiting for?? I never thought I'd say this but nice job Sanchez! Finally something pro-active instead of re-active! Now why didn't this happen about a year and a half ago and thirty stabbings ago?

For all those posters who have called me a racist because I believe in orderly and legal immigration, and who assume that only white people can be racist, take note of this little statement from the article above:

"It also indicates members of the gang were hostile to the presence of African-Americans in areas frequented by the gang, and that Eastsiders would attack individuals in their “turf” to control the area here "

And for all of those who constantly say that " illegal immigration doesn't have anything to do with the gang problem": (and called me a racist for observing it):

"it is estimated that 10 to 15 percent of the gang members are trans-national gang members who have either entered the country illegally, or committed a crime while here legally, and were then deported but returned."

This article has a little something for everyone!

My theory -- this gang sweep was initiated by the FBI and ICE and not by a request from Chief Sanchez. The recent nationwide effort by ICE to arrest illegal immigrant gang members is designed to show that the government is willing to partially enforce immigration law, in order to gain public support for amnesty. I predict that Lois Capps et. al. will point to this raid as an example of how enforcement will really happen in the future, if amnesty is granted during the next administration.

AShaw,
That would also mean that 90 to 85% of the gang members are either citizens or here legally. So what we have here is a problem that has little to do with illegal immigration. Nice try.

A little is too much! Why should we tolerate any of it? Think influence and peer pressure Hershey. Once it was "has nothing to do with it" now at least we know it has something to do with it. The 10-15 percent does not account for the percentage that are offspring of illegals. Degree is not an issue. Zero tolerance if it will save one life or stop one stabbing. What is it about illegal immigrant criminals or criminal offspring of illegal immigrants that you love so much and want to protect? People like you scare me more than the criminals !

You're right revisionist - I'm sure Sanchez didn't decide to "go federal" judging by all of his past comments and dodging on the issue of cooperation with the Feds (backed by the Mayor and Council) . I don't see ICE on the list of agencies listed in the take down though, so Sanchez must be true to his word of refusing to assist with immigration enforcement (at the risk of the public's safety he is sworn to protect).

Das Williams, on the Mayors radio talk show on Saturday told us they (the council) give the police everything they ask for when a caller suggested 287(g) ICE cooperation- the problem has been Sanchez has not asked and has publicly stated he would not (see Pimms quote above).

The Feds must have approached Sanchez. Either way I am sure he will get much more community support as a result and I support him fully for finally doing the right thing. (though three murders, countless stabbings and public harassments too late)

Did I say peer pressure? I meant coercion at knifepoint.

Oh, finally! Crackdown and immigration checks with multiple agencies working together! This is what has been needed for a long time. I tend to agree that the leadership for organizing this probably didn't come from our elected city officials. But at least it's finally happening. Hopefully this will help stem the gang issue, scare them and keep the stabbings and fights from escalating into something even worse. Keep the pressure on; go get 'em and keep us safe.

As someone who is educated in the law and law enforcement, I know how the working cooperation goes between government agencies (be it local, state or federal). The feds are not going to go looking at small town Santa Barbara unless asked to do so by local authorities. I know “revisionist” that you think this small town is “all important” but if the federal government is acting because of past aggressions by the gang then they would be more motivated in tackling Oxnard’s or Ventura’s more prevalent gang problem than ours. Our bangers are the ones still bringing a knife to a fight; their (Ventura County) gangs are armed with guns and use them often.

I know some people have a hard time saying good job when it is do, but face it, that happened here. SBPD went all out on this problem when they went federal.

And to Ashaw, frankly I don’t think Sanchez cares what you write. Do you honestly think he is even reading any of your posts since you post numerous times (one after the other) on the same article? Doubt it.

in the know - if you read above you will see that I have said "nice job Sanchez" and "I support him fully for finally doing the right thing." What else do you want? It is true that it was it was late in coming. And I have not claimed personal credit if you also read carefully I referred to "all those people that posted". FYI I am not the only one that has posted against Sanchez, many here have and have also called in to Marty's radio show about it. Congratulations to all who have put pressure on the City. Keep it up. And thank you and sincere Kudos once again to Chief Sanchez for finally taking some pre-emptive action.

If you don't like me posting numerous times in the same article, you are free to:
A) do the same, as do others, including yourself
B) don't read my posts.

The reason my posts are more numerous than others is because I seem to draw the greatest number of comments to respond to. If you want me to shut up ignore me, don't refer to my comments by name, but I will always respond when singled out for commentary. Any more problems I can help with to make your day go better?

by the way, saying that

"The feds are not going to go looking at small town Santa Barbara unless asked to do so by local authorities."

Only makes Sanchez look worse for not asking until now and fully supports the problem people like myself have had with him. So thanks for further supporting the argument against Sanchez, even though I know you meant to defend him intheknow

Yet, he has redeemed himself if he actually did finally ask.

How long do you think an investigation of this size takes to put together? Do you have any concept of the time it takes to gather information and investigate this many people to make sure that they have a complete investigation? To say "finally" they do something about it shows a lack of understanding about the process.

And by the way my comment was more directed as "revisionist" the person I named in my post. If you feel that part also was aimed at you then I guess you share his feelings too.

All of you: Just enjoy the moment. Unless constant pressure is placed on these CRIMINAL IDIOTS, they will re-group. They have an anti-social mentality, and big ball$ is a portion of their make up.

Excising a festering tumor does not cure the metastatic nature of their existence.

In the Know was right. The "Finally" comment was off base, but that's OK. He doesn't know. You don't take off 59 or so hoodlums and file RICO cases on them on a whim or as a reaction to bloggers. They did their homework and it has paid off.
Once they ride their canoe through the rapids of the social activists criticism, they will prevail and the community will be safer for it.
I only wish the activists would post themselves outside the homes of these idiots and protest their behaviour. After all, it takes a village........

AShaw,
You are a one person blog. Do you talk to yourself too? By reading many of your posts, it is clear that you feel that illegal immigration is the major cause of the gang problem. I was pointing out that only 10 to 15% of those arrested were illegals. So a resonable person would conclude that illegal immigration is not a major cause of gang violence. Latino gangs in California date back to the 1940's. This problem is over a half century old and will take much time and dedication to solve. Chief Sanchez has consistantly shown leadership on this issue and the raids were a first step to solving the problem.

Hersh, Yes and no to your point. Yes, gangs in SoCal and Az have been around since pre zoot suit days (look up Mariana Marvavilla history).

Yes, some percentage of these boys are illegal and some are not. However, it would be interesting to see how many of these boys are anchor babies of undocumented parents.

And, it will be interesting to see how the Pueblo folks point fingers of indignation at the police. If they have done anything to put a stop to the drug dealing, the robberies, car burglaries, the fighting, etc. that these thugs thrive on themselves, I'd like to see what it has been. I do see them rallying against the police, but don't recall ever seeing them protest the above mentioned criminals.

Azureseas,
My post was directed to AShaw. Pueblo is an outstanding community organization. Here is their mission statement:
PUEBLO is a 501(c)4 non-profit economic and environmental justice organization dedicated to building the political power and leadership of low-income residents throughout Santa Barbara County.

I do not recall Pueblo pointing "fingers of indignation" at the police for cracking down on gang violence. Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide some evidence of them "rallying against the police"

Clearly, we see a pretty tenuous link between illegal immigration and gang membership. Sorry immigrant critics, but you ought to find another angle.

As an aside to this topic, Ashaw says he "will always respond if singled out for commentary." Not true at all, as there have been times when I and others have asked him to provide concrete evidence to back up some of the more ridiculous generalizations he likes to put forth, and what do you know...no response!

He seems to just like to bloviate, pontificate, and rant. Wouldn't it be cool if those who were interested in--and actually capable of--engaging in civil, rational discourse could actually do so here, free of the annoying pontificaters? We don't have to agree with one another--and in fact, it's more interesting and useful if we don't--but we do have to be able to support the positions we take, refrain from knee jerk reactions, admit when we're wrong, or modify our positions when facts are brought to bear that complicate our little opinions. Not too many seem capable of that kind of discourse around here.

In any case, don't be fooled by some posters' attempts to portray themselves as reasonable people who really care about exchanging ideas.

Even 10 to 15% of gang members being illegal immigrants is a significant percentage. As noted above, the bigger problem is that many of the gangsters are U.S. born children of illegal immigrants. We know that about half of Mexican immigrants are in the U.S. illegally, hence the number of such children is quite large.

One should also recall the "broken windows" theory of crime -- lesser crimes such as vandalism and burglary lead to ever more serious violations. By publicly sympathizing with illegal immigration, both the Chief and City Council are contributing to the broken windows environment by giving the impression that "small" crimes will be tolerated as long as they are committed by the right ethnic group.

We should deport the parents of these gang bangers. Make parents actually look after their children and not be oblivious to their actions. We have enough loser Americans to deal with in the US without importing criminals from other countries or lame parents.

I would say this to Alex Quinn, Herschel Greenspan, and others who are quick to criticize those who suggest illegal immigration is part of the problem: When you have neighborhoods which already are overcrowded and filled with people who are hanging on financially by the skin of their teeth, bringing yet more people in *unlimited* numbers into those neighborhoods is not such a good idea.

Let's face the fact that the U.S. and Mexican governments have a tacit agreement that the U.S. is a safety valve for Mexico's dysfunctional political system which never seems to get it right economically. To date, I see no serious effort to actually improve Mexico's living situation so of course the "push" factor is still in place driving people up here through the 120-degree desert heat. (And of course, there are those evil smugglers who often rape the women who come up here)

What Santa Barbara is, when you get past the the nice weather and political rhetoric, is an overpriced and *overcrowded* place where people are flipping out with stress, as evidenced by increasingly aggressive driving, gang violence, and the endless supply of bars downtown where people can self-medicate themselves into a state of mind where as Billy Joel quotes in his song Piano Man they can "forget about life for a while". When you add all this up, it doesn't make sense to crowd more people into an already overcrowded area. Human beings need a certain amount of critical distance, and this factor is not mentioned in addressing gang violence but we all know big cities tend to give way to more anti-social behavior.

Santa Barbara has all the elements of a Perfect Storm, and jumping on AShaw for making a connection between a destructive immigration policy which hurts people on both sides of the border may assuage the P.C. thirst for self-rightousness, but it doesn't, and never has addressed the overall problem of la cadena perpetua. (Lit. "The endless chain" or the endless cycle of gang violence)

As long as people think they are doing the right thing by echoing G.W. Bush's line of "The do the work Americans simply won't do", they are actually enabling an immigration system which exploits people, and through this exploitation, creates the social unrest we see exploding in "paradise". The same thing has been happening in England, France, and now Sweden, for much of the same reason.

Better to expend energy toward making Mexico a livable place.

Well, I guess the Buzz... here in Metro DC, was true. The FBI, visiting our Facility for "Tactical Information", paid off. Based on the activity from I.C.E., and the Treasury Dept., Santa Barbara PD had nothing to do with the take-down. The Feds here are still getting Federal Grand Jury Warrants to initiate another major attack of Illegal Gang Members in Central and North County. Expect a heavy presence of Federal Agents in Santa Barbara over the next month, since the warrants for 'Cappos' will continue. I.C.E. is also looking into the affiliations
of public servants who have ties to Latino Gangs and are allowing those Gangs to flurish without hesitation or impediment, due to ethnic or Community affiliation.
If I were the Police Chief, after making that statement regarding 'Non Enforcement of Federal Imigration Enforcement', opened the eyes of several Justice Department Officials. So Santa Barbara, The SBPD, was NOT the initiators of the crack-down but the Feds instead. Look forward to a Federal action regarding your Police Chief in the near future also.

I'm actually in agreement with some of your points here, billclausen, but you're not sticking to the specific criticisms lobbed at AShaw's positions on illegal immigration. He and others continually try to overstate the supposed connection between immigration and gang violence. The real connection comes from the issues of poverty, economic exploitation, inequities in public education, etc.

And think carefully about what some of you here call "anchor babies" (suggesting some kind of conspiracy, instead of simple survival strategies meant to keep food and shelter intact). Think about what it's like to grow up in SB or any American town, with illegal immigrant parents whose main goal in life was to come here in order to make a better life for YOU, their children. You arrived here at age 3, and you go on to attend public schools. You do all the right things by staying out of trouble, getting good grades, working hard, etc. You've grown up here and have been largely acculturated by US culture, while trying to maintain your cultural heritage through parents and family/neighborhood. You continually struggle with this cultural tension.

But you do well and are ready for college after h.s. graduation. Oh, but guess what, you're undocumented so not eligible for any federal financial aid. Even though you are now as American as anyone, you are not able to fully pursue your American dream because of decisions your parents made when you were a baby. Even if you manage to work your way through college, upon graduation, your prospects for employment are extremely limited, or non-existent without a green card or even a social security card. What kind of future can you look forward to and pursue with that big obstacle in the way? Does it make sense that many people give up--either early on, or later as they leave high school?

It's true that Mexico has to step up. Americans also need to step up: if you believe strongly in limiting or doing away with border crossings, maybe you should start planning to pursue a career in fruit picking, landscape services, or housecleaning.

This one scenario illustrates the issues at stake and the ways in which these issues play out ever day in real people's lives. Perhaps, perhaps it gives you pause to really think about somebody else for a change.

alexquinn writes: "He (AShaw) and others continually try to overstate the supposed connection between immigration and gang violence. The real connection comes from the issues of poverty, economic exploitation, inequities in public education, etc."
This is true, but the context of illegal immigration leads to these things. What I forgot to mention in my post was the "pull" factor of American businesses that not only have disdain for American laws, but also disdain for the Mexican workers that they hire. Once again, when President Bush nervously and defensively says "They do the work Americans simply won't do", what he's saying is "They put up with crap and abuse that nobody should have to endure".

Per Quinn's second paragraph: No matter what side one is on in the illegal immigration debate, it must be hell to grow up here and find out as you grow up that you do not have the same rights as others because your parents brought you up here illegally. Once again, greedy American businesses and as Quinn points out, Mexico failing to step up to the plate make this possible.

Per the fourth paragraph: I question the statement that Americans are unwilling to do the work Quinn mentions. I don't think it's as much a question of Americans being unwilling to do the work, but rather a case of businesses seeing that Americans will rightfully demand safe and reasonable work conditions. Up until very recently Americans scrubbed toilets, changed bedpans, and so forth. If I'm wrong, than Americans DO need to step up to the plate.

While I won't put words in AShaw's mouth, what I *think* (I'll let him clarify) he's saying is that the politics behind illegal immigration lead to the factors of poverty and exploitation that result in gang violence.

What bothers me about the collective American pysche--both liberal and conservative--is that it has such low expectations of Mexican people. With this ingrained in so many stratas of American thinking, is it any wonder that "Self-esteem" is such a common issue when describing this demographic?

dou4now do you also see men in black uniforms sitting accross your house in a van? Did you remember to put aluminum foil on your ac vents so that the laser beams that the FBI is shooting won't get in?

Your outrageous allegations are funny, but also sad if you really think that.

dou4now do you also see men in black uniforms sitting accross your house in a van? Did you remember to put aluminum foil on your ac vents -InTheKnow-

Sometimes putting on foil has its benefits. Watch the first 20 seconds of the video below to learn about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW1Grq1r3...

...upon cutting off each of its heads he found that two grew back, an expression of the hopelessness of such a struggle for any but the hero, Heracles.

Yes indeed, the Hydra has many heads--two of which are the the Democratic and Republican parties.

While I won't put words in AShaw's mouth, what I *think* (I'll let him clarify) he's saying is that the politics behind illegal immigration lead to the factors of poverty and exploitation that result in gang violence. - billclausen

Exactly - Now Bill is someone who can draw back and look at the bigger picture. In addition is the "trickle up" poverty created when the middle class needs to pay for all of the imported poverty, and bring the imports up to the standard of living that they feel is their entitlement, just by virtue of having snuck across the border.. ("spread the wealth around" until the lifeboat sinks)

Your "outstanding community organization" PUEBLO, by the way Herschel, has a website:
www.pueblo.org

Do you know what PUEBLO stands for?
People United for Economic Justice Building Leadership through Organizing

In the very upper right corner you will see exactly what they are all about "immigrant justice'. Of course, they left out two of the magic words. "Illegal Immigrant economic justice" is a more accurate mission statement.

In other words illegal immigrants who demand that they be as rich as any other citizen, just because they live here too and it isn't fair.

From the site:
"Santa Barbara County is home to one of the wealthiest communities in the United States, yet there is tremendous poverty throughout our County."

After all it's their country too, now that they snuck across the border, isn't it? Used to be immigrants come here for opportunity, not for economic justice and to demand that everything you work for and earn is theirs. That used to be called theft until it became government sanctioned. Now let's just call it socialism. So why work anyone?

Quinn since when can't the child of an illegal immigrant born in the USA not go to college? He or she is considered a citizen, no? Born in the USA means documented if at a hospital? no? I am asking because this is news to me.

Ashaw,

I happened to see in an earlier posting by you that you complained that there was not any ICE people represented and you blamed Sanchez. Look at the first picture "and ICE agent Robert Schoch looking on."