Police Investigating Possible Hate Crime

Anybody recognize the logo on the taxi? Astounding the driver just blithely continued on his/her way (at least as it appears in this video.)
May the assailants rot in hell.

Any person that views this video, has information or knows someone that has information, and does not come forward should be banned from society.

These buttclowns need to be caught & hung from a tree. In fact, ANYBODY who commits unwanted violence on unsuspecting iindividuals needs to suffer harsh concequences. They obviously were "dressed for success" in their "mission.'
As for the taxi driver driving off the way he/she did, well, let's just say they could've done better as a person by creating a point of attention for police to come & for the criminals to cease & desists their heineous act. CATCH THESE GUYS! :) henry

@KenVolok: It could be that the taxi driver is so used to fights and assaults downtown that they have become desensitized to it. Scary stuff.

Was the person so intent on filming the "action" that they did not call 911 or was there a simultaneous call?

Not a good event for Dale Francisco to be seen at.

Why does the "hate crime" label even figure into the equation? This is an assault--IMO, the motivation for the crime should not be calculated.

I understand that the additional labeling might affect sentencing, but shouldn't that be accounted for, in the range given for such sentencing? That is, if the "hate crime" add-on yields 6 more month on an assault charge, then why not just up the limit on assault sentencing, and let the judge decide the punishment? Is it harder to change the sentences on the books, as opposed to including additional penalties?

@hank

Odd, that you would use the term "buttclowns", in your comment. One might interpret that as an actual slur against gay men--and that by applying the term to the aggressors, you're actually extending the insult over to the victims! (I didn't phrase that well, but I hope you understand what I mean).

Also, I know that your intent was not to insult anyone other than the thugs, so please don't feel that I'm attacking you for that.

..."why not just up the limit on assault sentencing, and let the judge decide the punishment? Is it harder to change the sentences on the books, as opposed to including additional penalties?"

-equus_posteriori-
January 5, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.

Excellent point E_Q. If I lose a loved one due to an assault my grief level doesn't change according to the motive of the attacker.

Equus,
If you read the article or heard any of the news reports, the victims in this case we're called perjoratives for being gay/homosexual. That pretty much seals it.
I'll take this rare opportunity to defend Hank and say you're reaching because the assailants, statistically speaking are most likely closet cases themselves. In the end it's themselves they hate but unfortunately they act out on their selfhatred with violence towards others.

I did not see Dale Francisco in the City Hall photo but maybe he wasn't able to catch a taxi over to the event.

Ken: Using your theory of latant homosexuality how would that tie in with racially motivated hate crimes?

Shameful.

The reason there is a category of hate crimes is the crime is intended to terrorize an entire segment of society based upon a characteristic. In this case, clearly the attackers intended to attack gays and send a message near a gay bar.

I, for one, applaud the hate crime enhancement. Since there were 3 of them, they should have triple enhancements.

I recall intervening in a hate crime on lower State Street near the old Pub. I was able to repell the attackers who were homing in on a vulnerable man. Had I not been there, I shudder to think what might have happened.

John_A: "Not a good event for Dale Francisco to be seen at."

Man, still bitter he got re-elected? Let it go dude, apparently DonMcD did (or so it seems). Take a deep breath, relax & LET IT GO!

Equus P: "Odd, that you would use the term "buttclowns", in your comment. One might interpret that as an actual slur against gay men--and that by applying the term to the aggressors, you're actually extending the insult over to the victims! (I didn't phrase that well, but I hope you understand what I mean)."

I see what you mean & don't take your comment as an attack, but you should know that the term buttclown has ZILCH to do w/ gay men.
A buttclown is a person who acts like the end product of their keester, a jackass, a social idiot that does the kind of stuff these buttclowns did.
If you want to interpret it your way, fine, have @ it, this is America & that right is guranteed & I respect you for exercising that right.
I also reserve the right to refer to these buttclowns as, well, buttclowns, based on MY definition of the word, which has ZILCH to do w/ gay men.

KenV: "the assailants, statistically speaking are most likely closet cases themselves. In the end it's themselves they hate but unfortunately they act out on their selfhatred with violence towards others."

I hear you on that, but they're just hateful cretins that deserve the fullest punishment they can be handed. Psychology aside, these guys are scum, simple as that.

KenV: "I did not see Dale Francisco in the City Hall photo but maybe he wasn't able to catch a taxi over to the event."

Yeah, it'd be a LONG cab ride from his office, down the hall & out the front door to where the press conference was held. That meter would've gone nuts! :) henry

We all understand the theoretical substantiation for Hate Crimes, some of us, even some of us like me that appear to be part of a group of protected minorities, abhor hate crimes because the crime to us is beating the crap out of somebody. Do you honestly feel your jaw is less broken if some jackass just does it to prove his street bona fides?
You'll never prove a Hate Crime against a Latino thug who targets younger and smaller Latino's, even though they target a specific group to insure that they triumph in the confrontation.
This current crime is ugly enough that everyone commenting wants to find the cretins who did this without us having to wage a philosophically isometric exercise about "Hate Crime or not".
Let's instead take the opportunity to realize that there are instances like this that unite all of us. That's a good thing from a terrible thing.

Bill,
I asked myself that same question. I think both cases go down to scapegoating: "Its because those two guys were holding hands that I have these feelings" "Its because black people have jobs that I don't" I think bashing people somehow gives the assailant a short term sense of power, they "bested (i.e. beat) whoever they see as the cause of their problems.
I'm not a psychologist tho I am often asked for the motivations of fictional characters. I think getting to the roots of Racism and homophobia before people are hurt is key. Often times it begins in the home.
I agree with Italiansurg as well.

The reason people are mentioning Dale Francisco because Francisco was a fierce supporter of Prop. 8, and remains so. And please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't to see Self or Hotchkiss there either.. we can assume Rowse was on vacation.

A similar incident happened to me about a week ago. This nut was pounding on my motorhome yelling faggot and was heard by several other people. I called the police. The officer was not interested in hearing any details. His basic comment was "he says this you say that". He ended up giving us BOTH a ticket for illegal use of an RV (I was just sitting in my doorway talking to this officer, surprisingly calm. And what in *#!* is "illegal use of an RV"? Anyone heard of "illegal use of a car"?). So for calling the police MY PENALTY will be $185, should I pay instead of filing a grievance, which I will file. It's the publicity that brought out the politicians. Votes are everything. Sure don't see anyone even mildly concerned about my incident. I feel the officer just finished off the attackers intent. If one don't get you the other will. Potential victims should always hang with some member of the press. Otherwise you're on your own. I hope the seriously hurt victim will be ok.

You should most definitely file a complaint xguy. A week agao the guy's pounding on your door, next week he could be harming someone physically.
I wish I knew more of my rights and options when I was bashed twice by Nazi skinheads in Ventura. The first attack I was kicked in the eye, the second a bottle smashed across my face. And both instances, despite bleeding profusely and having glass in my eye; the VPD thought it best I arrange my own transportation to the hospital.

XGuy: By your post I can't tell if this happened in Santa Barbara. If it did, bear in mind there is a very hostile attitude toward people that live in RV's and campers in S.B. In other words, for all of the politically correct Left-wing politics of this city, bigotry toward those living in their cars/vans or under cardboard boxes persists.

I would also add that the hypocrisy of S.B.'s political leaders shows itself once again because while they say how they won't tolerate gay bashing, they certainly support the bar scene which helps fuel such violence.
Booze+bad upbring+double standards=what we are seeing.

KenV: "The reason people are mentioning Dale Francisco because Francisco was a fierce supporter of Prop. 8, and remains so."

As much as I hated prop 8, it has nothing to do w/ violenece against gays & lesbians, it's about marriage & the definition.
Besides, the measure was legally put on the ballots & it is a person's right under our system to support, or not, what's on a ballot. Obviously the voters in SB didn't seem too concerned about his support of prop 8, he got re-elected.

KenV: "And please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't to see Self or Hotchkiss there either.. we can assume Rowse was on vacation."

Didn't see Hotchkiss there, but Self being a no-show is understandable, she's no longer on the SB City Council.
As for Rowse not being there because of vacation, House is doing the same in Africa, he wasn't there as well or is he back yet? :) henry

Translating support of prop 8 into hatred of gays is just stupid.
I've never understood why the public system offers Marriage Licenses to ANYONE anyway, considering marriage is a religious and not civil act, instead of just some registration form but that has nothing to do with this crime.
Hell, I don't even know why multiple consenting adults, hetero, homo, you name it cannot be "married" but that too is another discussion that's not germane.
The only operative facts in my mind are that a couple of people apparently got terribly beaten without provocation and we need to find the jackasses who did it and ostracize and incarcerate them.

.KV- To even bring up Francisco with some snide remark is lessening the real crappy tragedy of this beating and you should know better.

When you deny people equal rights its just one more step towards dehumanizing them and thus committing acts of violence against them. Why would you deny someone equal rights (some would say both God given and according to early Church paintings- sanctified) in marriage. I'm not Mormon but if three or more adults voluntary consent/enter into a polygamous marriage that's no skin off my back. Why do they care what genitalia people possess who want to get married? Procreation? The planet already is reaching population breaking points! Ridiculous.
"Dehumaniziation" is a real problem in our poltical/social world today. As a country and a culture we've made real advances BUT at the same time it has also become easier to otherize each other. Even in these online forums we forget that there's real people on the other side of these comments that we agree/disagree with.

@italiansurg: "Translating support of prop 8 into hatred of gays is just stupid."

It was specifically designed to deny legal rights to a group of people. For a government, it's about a hateful as you can get without rounding people up.

@italiansurg: "I've never understood why the public system offers Marriage Licenses to ANYONE anyway, considering marriage is a religious and not civil act..."

Quite the opposite. You're essentially entering into a legal contract with another person, granting them all sorts of rights to you and vice versa. It's probably the only contract in which the lawyers don't get involved until after the contract is terminated.

EatTheRich-I get Civil Unions for a public entity.
Marriage is still traditionally a religious act, predominantly carried out by some official with some religious or pseudo religious affiliation. The permit at the government building is in addition to that religious ceremony.
Since most religious groups, and not just Christians, define religious marriage as between one man and one women, that should be their prerogative to hand out whatever marriage affirmation they feel like.
If we would finally separate out public marriage from a public union this entire discussion would be moot.
Most of the religious based people I knew that were for Prop 8 DID NOT HATE GAYS. They may have been misguided in our opinions but they simply felt that gay marriage was against the basis for most of what they believe to be right and moral. Stupidity does not directly translate to being hateful.
Besides, the Prop 8 BS still gets in the way of the real issue here which is that some regular folks apparently got the crap kicked out of them by some lowlifes. Again, I could not care less "why" the regular folks got the crap kicked out of them.

@italiansurg: "I get Civil Unions for a public entity. Marriage is still traditionally a religious act, predominantly carried out by some official with some religious or pseudo religious affiliation."

I believe something along the lines of 30% (and growing) of married couples in the U.S. did not have a religious ceremony. I'm willing to bet that figure competes with any single religious denomination.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5...

@italiansurg: "Most of the religious based people I knew that were for Prop 8 DID NOT HATE GAYS. They may have been misguided in our opinions but they simply felt that gay marriage was against the basis for most of what they believe to be right and moral."

Whether or not they specifically hated gays, the passage of Prop 8 was a hateful act. Period. Most people on the wrong side of history felt that they were the "moral" actors by fighting the thing (e.g. women's rights, integration, gay marriage, etc, etc) they were against. That doesn't excuse their actions.

And maybe it's not directly related, but to continually suggest that the passage of anti-LGBT laws like Prop 8 does not contribute to anti-LGBT violence like SB experienced on NYE is to simply live in denial.

ETR: "http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5"

ETR using Fox news as a source for a "progressive" purpose? BLASPHEMY! Must be a "conservative" operative posing as ETR.

But all kidding aside, wasn't the support of prop 8 mainly by Blacks & Latinos? Or was it that most Blacks & Latinos supported prop 8?

Regardless, the moment you put a person's "bedhind the doors rights" on a ballot that is simply out of the scope of freedoms & liberties & absolutely shameful.

Prop 8 sucks, but it wasn't about saying gays couldn't unite in a LEGAL partnership union/bond, it was just about the wording & usage of the word "marriage" based on traditional, & yes, religious norms.
I wouldn't use the word "hateful" to describe prop 8, but shameful, that falls more in line w/ what it is.
I don't care who marries who, it weighs nothing on me personally & that's just the way it is.

By the way, all the denouncing in the world of this heineous act committed by some idiots don't amount to much.
Catch, prosecute, punish severely, that's all they'll ever understand, really.

But don't stop there, go after gangs too because they do the same thing (terrorize innocent people) on a daily basis.
In many cases they do it on a race based agenda & in some cases sexual orientation plays a part.

Equal pay for equal play, hate is hate regardless of who commits it, why condone it? :) henry

Once again Progressive's cite Fox News while simultaneously claiming it has no value. Which is it? And again/again, I don't watch it.
I don't define a hateful act the same as you do and we'll never agree. I find beating the snot out of someone that did not threaten you the absolute definition of a hateful/stupid/criminal/heinous act. Some of the people that were for Prop 8 are good moral people that do not discriminate against anyone for any reason in their day to day lives. We agree they are misguided but calling them hateful will simply perpetuate the problem and diminishes events like this recent attack.

Blacks and Latino's had the highest percentage support for Prop 8 among all ethnic groups, with support in the Black community at overwhelming levels.

Hank and I will again side with using all legal means to target heinous acts against all people, without regard to race, creed, color, sexual preference, clothing color you name it...

@italiansurg: "Once again Progressive's cite Fox News while simultaneously claiming it has no value. Which is it? And again/again, I don't watch it."

If you had bothered to read the byline, you'd see I didn't cite Fox News. I cited the Associated Press. My apologies for not scouring the internet for more philosophically consistent URL. (You can almost hear my eyes rolling...)

Oh, and Fox News has no value (aside from convenience when they cite someone else's reporting).

@italiansurg: "I don't define a hateful act the same as you do and we'll never agree."

You define "a hateful act" in a way that suits your argument without any political or historical context. In other words, your definition is entirely arbitrary and largely meaningless.

@italiansurg: "Some of the people that were for Prop 8 are good moral people that do not discriminate against anyone for any reason in their day to day lives."

Except in the case of gay marriage. It was pretty clear who they were discriminating against and that they wanted that discrimination institutionalized - which is about as day to day as you can get. But hey, at least they're good and morale in YOUR eyes. That's a... plus. I guess.

@italiansurg: "Blacks and Latino's had the highest percentage support for Prop 8 among all ethnic groups, with support in the Black community at overwhelming levels."

Nice red herring. Nothing like pitting marginalized communities against each other to prove just how tolerant you really are...

wow ETR, your Progressive brand of tolerance sounds kinda' "hateful". I guess you're only tolerant when everyone agrees with your point of view and thank goodness you alone are correct about how to best be inclusive and moral.

@italiansurg: "I guess you're only tolerant when everyone agrees with your point of view and thank goodness you alone are correct about how to best be inclusive and moral."

Since we've already established that your definition of "hateful" is meaningless, and that you seem to have no problem defending those "good and morale people" who actively support eliminating the established rights of others, I'll take this as a compliment.

And confirmed that your definition of "hateful" is anyone with a different view from your "Progressive" view. That's as dogmatic and stupid as the right that you loathe. Both extremes are intolerant of everyone and anyone that is not in line with them.
I'll stay here in the middle, realizing that a successful society is diverse in morals and political views whether I like them all or not.

@italiansurg: "And confirmed that your definition of 'hateful" is anyone with a different view from your 'Progressive' view."

I would point out that I never, EVER, referred to anyone specifically as hateful. I said their actions were hateful, and that I questioned, based on their hateful actions, whether they could maintain status as the "good and moral people" you defended them to be. Of course, rather than arguing the point, you attack my "Progressive" view (as if you ever demonstrated that you even have a CLUE as to what "Progressive" means). But it's easier than continuing to argue a losing point, I guess...

You seem to think that people's actions aren't important - which a wonderful point of view when defending people who have done others wrong.

@italiansurg: "I'll stay here in the middle, realizing that a successful society is diverse in morals and political views whether I like them all or not. "

Yeah. You're not "in the middle." Not by a long shot...

Something tells me that this open-mindedness you claim to possess only extends so far. Like, to those "good and moral people" whom you defend so staunchly in spite of all of the evidence that they are not quite so "good and moral", all while you throw the Black and Hispanic communities under the bus. Yeah - you're a real beacon of tolerance.

ETR to italiansurg: "Nice red herring. Nothing like pitting marginalized communities against each other to prove just how tolerant you really are... "

Nothing "red herring" about the facts. These ethnic groups are supposedly the ones that "progressives" count on to back their agendas, but somehow, someway they failed the "progressives" & for that they're bitter.
Denying the fact that these groups were for prop 8 is in effect writing them off as hateful & less than you. How "progressive" & closet racist is that? I smell a 2 for 1 sale on this 1.

ETR: "I would point out that I never, EVER, referred to anyone specifically as hateful. I said their actions were hateful, and that I questioned, based on their hateful actions, whether they could maintain status as the "good and moral people" you defended them to be.the passage of Prop 8 was a hateful act.
the passage of Prop 8 was a hateful act.

Nice way of indirectly referring to these people as hateful because you don't agree w/ their usage of a legal action action known as voting as a "hateful act." Yeah, I guess it's all in the wording. Could you throw out the words "hateful act" any more than that? I bert you could.

italiansurg: "I'll stay here in the middle, realizing that a successful society is diverse in morals and political views whether I like them all or not. "

ETR to italiansurg: "Yeah. You're not "in the middle." Not by a long shot..."

Uh, dude, he's a hell of a lot closer to the realistic middle than you could "progressively" EVER be :) henry