Fatal Fiesta

Maybe the Independent should do a little bit more investigating before publishing a comment from an “Anonymous” source in Port Hueneme. Most members of the Navy, if deployed to the Middle East, do so while on a ship. Most sailors do not carry guns. What was Turner’s duty while in the Navy, did this require him to carry a gun? Doubtful, as they have marines stationed on ships as a security force. It seems like a convenient out for mister anonymous to make. And I am sure they do not carry .45 caliber Springfield XD. Where did he get this gun? Was it his? And this is not Iraq, this is America were people should be able to feel free to walk down the street without fear of being assaulted by a man with a gun. Also, based on other reports that I have seen on the TV about this press release the police say the whole incident lasted 3 to 5 seconds. This would be an extraordinarily sort period of time to react and deal with a deadly situation brought about by the actions of an obviously upset man. The SBPD should be commended for the actions of those two officers in saving countless lives. God only knows what a mad man with a gun could do with that many people as a crowd that night. Look what happened years earlier downtown when the gang member from LA started shooting wildly into the crowd before SBPD thankfully stopped him. This was surely a huge tragedy diverted by the actions of those officers, GOOD JOB!!!!

HEY THERE YOU ARE MR/MRS INTHEKNOW AND YOU SEEM TO BE THE SAME IGNORANT PERSON BUT YOU ARE A VERY PERSON AND ONCE AGAIN GOD DOESNT LIKE UGLY AND YOU MY LITTLE IGNORANT PERSON ARE VERY UGLY.

Seabees DO NOT go on ships, they are combat trained and are very quallified. to the person that posted the comment perhaps he should get his facts straight then speak

seabee mom

Only a criminal or someone in denial or a very stupid individual would justify this guy carrying a concealed loaded weapon while at Fiesta...the fact he is a seabee and suggesting that this is why he carried a gun is ludicrous. The guy pulled out a gun while cops are present???? He should have been shot!! Any attempt to justify this thugs action by thugs and thug lovers is a waste of bandwidth. Guy pulls gun at fight while running from cops...guy is shot by cops as he carries gun...case closed.

OH....and like the poster above...GOOD JOB SBPD!

Can't fault them.

I spoke with a few people about the news that the 2 officers used 18 bullets, and that one of them was involved in the shooting a few years ago. Initially, people were taken aback by the high number of shots, saying it leaned on excessive, some saying outright that it was excessive force.

When I asked them why they considered it to be at or near excessive, many stated their belief that a few shots a piece would have stopped the gunman. I agreed with this, but then asked if it made much of a difference that there were hundreds of people within 100 feet of the gunman. After a pause, nearly all rethought their positions.

If it were 18 shots to a lone gunman on an empty street, or 18 shots to someone without a gun or just a knife, I think we could very well be bordering on excessive. The fact that there were so many people so close to the incident leads me, and others who initially thought of excessive force, to believe that the officers used the means at their disposal to stop the gunman before he had the opportunity to shoot.

The threat to the safety of others was stopped. Whether he was a good person is, unfortunately, irrelevant. His relationship to others is, unfortunately, irrelevant.

I would be willing to guess that many in Santa Barbara, even police officers, would want to provide help to his family, even children if he has any. This would come not from guilt, but from wanting to ensure that the mistakes of a man did not echo on the lives of his family.

My heart goes to his family for their loss and mourning, my head shakes at his decision to carry and pull a gun in a crowd and the selfishness of considering only himself, and I tip my hat to the SBPD for keeping the crowds safe.

A wounded idiot with a loaded semi-auto handgun still can fire off a few rounds into the crowd.

18 shots by the police might have not been enough.

david-e and InTheKnow: thanks for your well thought out and well stated input. You bring up many good points.

Clearly (and understandably) those close to Turner are grieving. Their irrational and angry posts come from emotion rather than reason. My sympathies go out to those who are grieving the loss of your family member and friend. You are just as much victims of Turner's actions as he was a victim of his own irrational actions. It's a true shame.

Fortunately no other families lost a loved one. The SBPD officers involved prevented what could've been a true tragedy. There was no reason for Turner to pull a gun unless he was going to use it. And even if his intended target was Ruben, as the article suggests, there's no guarantee that in his irrational, agitated state (indicated by his pulling a gun in the midst of officers and bystanders) he wouldn't have hit others... or that even one bullet from his high-caliber gun may have hit multiple people. Of course it's speculation. Fortunately, due to the heroic actions of the officers, that's all it will ever have to be.

As to the argument that Turner was formerly in the military, I know it's supposed to make him look better. He served his country, and that is absolutely honorable. BUT, it also means he was highly trained in the use of weapons, which is all the more reason he was a real danger to the officers and the crowd. Of course the officers couldn't have known that at the time, but in hindsight it makes their actions all the more praiseworthy. A highly trained gunsman with a high caliber weapon who is willing to pull it out within 5 ft of officers (think about it, that's VERY close range!) and point it at them and/or the crowd is an imminent threat to everyone. I have no doubt that a tragedy was prevented that night by the officers' swift and courageous action.

In general I'd like to offer kudos to the police of Santa Barbara who risk their own lives and safety to keep us protected, and specifically to the two officers involved. Thank you, officers Kushner and Claytor! Your actions were justified; but the aftermath must be highly troubling nonetheless, as it would be with any life and death situation. At that close range to a gunman, you were in as much danger (or more!) as any of the crowd. My thoughts go out to your families too; I'm sure they'll continue to be effected by this for some time.

Unfortunately there were many peripheral victims of this incident, including all those who witnessed it, many of whom will have nightmares, etc, reliving it and wondering "what if." Turner paid for his lapse of good judgement with his life; it's a shame that so many innocent people will continue to pay a price for his actions as well.

What would happen if the shoe was on the other foot. Well I guess these people who are making these ignorant comments never thought about that. Once again you were not there to make these comments. There are so many stories that are going around and you people are just feeding into them and then stating your opinions. Well guess what at the end of the day your opinions do not matter because whats wrong is wrong and whats right is right. The truth will soon come to the light and then what will you post, that the law did the law wrong (get it). One minute he Pointed the gun at police, then at the crowd, then he had it in his hand when he was jumping the patio's barrier. Which one was it?? Its ok for the police to say this and that happened so they can cover their ass but the investigation goes on. And these comments that we are making (Turner's Family) are from reason cause its a shame how ignorant people get when they make other peoples buisness their own because you will never know how we feel until it happens to you. The comments that the community is making are from emotions because they feel they have to say something just because they live in that area or they are just bored but GOD dont like ugly and believe me it will catch up to you in the long run. Our community is hurting while your community is worrying will this happen agian it should not have happen in the first place, get your police under control cause now their under investigation. IF YOU SCARED GO TO CHURCH!! PRAY ABOUT IT AND WHILE YOUR THERE ASK GOD TO FORGIVE YOU FOR YOUR IGNORANCE. And for all of those people who are talking about Turner personally you cant cause you never knew him or his character so let it go cause at the end of the day you still don't matter.

Well, I understand the grief family feels....the bottom line is the guy had a loaded gun in his hand....that was a stupid and fatal mistake on his part. If it looks like a duck.....

Let's stick with what the cops knew when they made the decision to shoot: They walk up on a group of 6-8 men fighting in the midst of a huge fiesta crowd. The men are punching and kicking each other and scattering people in the area. The cops don't know who is who, or the reason for any of this violence. Based on the history of bad blood between Turner and the man boinking his wife, it is a pretty good assumption that Turner looks and is acting enraged. The cops try to break up the fight, a pretty routine and low-key reaction. They see Turner pointing a gun at innocent people. Whatever Turner's intentions were, the cops had about one second to process the information and make a decision. Some people are focusing on whether Turner was a good guy or not. That was immaterial to the cops faced with the decision. Some people want to believe that Turner was not actually holding the gun. That arguement seems ridiculous based on what the cops say, what 30 eye witnesses say, and the fact that no one else involved in the fight was shot. For Turner's friends and supporters, I am OK believing he was a good guy who did plenty of good deeds in his life. The shooting may be the sad end of a good life. However, in judging what happened I believe the facts are pretty clear that the police did the right thing. From reading the blogs, it seems Turners companions take exception to the facts. Blaming the cops relieves them of the responsibility of participating in the fight and letting him cruise around with a loaded .45. I hope Turner's loved ones hold these so-called "friends" accountable. They deserve a serious a-- whipping!!!!

It is unreal how friends or family of this guy who pulled out a loaded gun attempt to distract from the fact that he did just that. I don't care what he was, his color whether he is gay, blue a sailor or a barber or whatever....to say "you don't have the facts" is just plain idiotic. The true ignorance comes from the friends or family that keep posting lame excuses and blame anyone but the perp types that they seem to be doing. He did what he did and he paid the ultimate price. The guy made a stupid mistake and he was shot. If you want to live in denial, go right ahead. That doesn't change the minds of those who are grateful for the police making certain this guy didn't have a chance to pull the trigger on that loaded gun in his HANDS!