Nonexistent Fracking

Thursday, August 14, 2014
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Measure P is a solution for a nonexistent problem. The county’s fresh water is not being damaged by currently allowed and regulated “production techniques.” The measure if enacted will result in multiple lawsuits seeking millions of dollars in damages, concerning unconstitutional taking claims, property rights, mineral rights, lost income, preemption of state and federal law, etc. Major damages will be awarded against the County of Santa Barbara; hence the taxpayers.

The measure will cost the county over an estimated $300 million-plus in lost local economic contribution, as well as the loss of over a thousand jobs. The measure will cost the county, it is claimed, over $16 million-plus in yearly tax revenue; it has no provision or explanation as to how lost revenue needed, among other needs, for our schools, police and fire departments, and infrastructure, will be made up.

The county has been advised that it has no liability insurance coverage. It also has been advised it will be faced with the most liability exposure in its history. It’s been estimated the county will incur $50 million-plus in litigation defense fees. The county will be bankrupt. The taxpayers will be left holding the bag. Vote no on Measure P.


Independent Discussion Guidelines

Who do these Minerals belong to? Those who profit off them? They are making a killing. The scale is not balanced. What about the 'major damage' that we will inflict upon our planet once we put these carbons into the atmosphere. Shortsighted.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2014 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Any so-called threat of "major damage" is based on pseudo science and scientists (well at least some of them have degrees) who must toe the line and advance the false agenda of climate change lest they lose their careers. Who profits off the climate change mythology? Al Gore types and thousands of scientists who promote it. And by the way, why don't you ask who profits from the carrots or wheat or anything you consume nitwit?? The people who produce those things. Right? They are entitled to profit from what they do aren' they? If you don't like people making a profit from their labor or production of goods that we use, including gasoline, well, we know what school of thought you come from. Maybe when you grow up you will gain just a little more wisdom.

Dorfy (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2014 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sounds like you enjoy breathing carbon exhaust D. Entitled? The kind of profit they are making expanded the wealth gap into billionaires and 3rd world conditions in this country of ours. You pick carrots D? Look how the pickers livin', most aren't even citizens of this country. We don't need to see how the jet set livin', its pumped into our news even. Don't tell me you fall for the lie D, 'someday I will be rich'. Keep bashing science (some of them have degrees?!!?!). If the people believe the crystal ball of those such as D, and discard the numbers, data, facts of where we are headed provided by science, then we get what we deserve. Hope you're getting paid D, watch out for the boomerang though.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2014 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

D, right on. Climate Change is a religion and industry created by elite-st billionaires. It is designed to appeal to the weak minded among us. It keeps them in a constant state of fear and paranoia.

Spacecase, take a walk. Turn off the MSNBC. Free your mind.

PS avoid the naturally occurring oil seeps on the beach. You must feel guilty exhaling......

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2014 at 8:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nativegeo when you take a massive dump like your last post, please for the love of gd light a match!

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2014 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes on P! H. Thomas's arguments make little sense; wow, look at the oil industry squeal.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 15, 2014 at 8:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Honestly DrDan, do you live in this society? Do you drive or do you ride a horse? Is your house heated? Do the lights come on somehow? How does the computer you are using power itself?

What planet do militant greenies live on? You enjoy the comforts of this society but say you want to pull it all down.

In the interest of intellectual honesty, you must frog march yourself naked, out into the Los Padres wilderness, find a cave, and make yourself a pair of eco trousers out of leaves. Then (as long as you dont make fire) you can look out over the sunset and call yourself an honest man. Till then, you (and the other greenies) are pretty much a joke.

nuffalready (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 4:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nuff already nuffalready! Get real yourself, joker. I live on a planet that's tired of all this drilling and now attempted fracking-poison.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 5:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nuff, you're stuck on the OIL drug...let's take Germany, a land without nearly as much sun as Calif, one a day in June 2014 they managed to get HALF OF THAT DAY'S ELECTRICAL ENERGY VIA PHOTOVOLTAIC PANELS...
There's just no reason to stay addicted to dirty oil; I hope Measure P (YES ON P !!) is only the first in legal limitations on oil production and exploration in our green state. Get out of the 19th century yourself. FYI, my tiny house uses as little energy as possible; I bike when I can; we ALL need to Reduce and reuse our precious limited resources, including water. And get the hell off of our sick oil dependency; other countries are doing this and we can, too. Yes, we need to reduce our dependence.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 5:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It seems that the anti-Measure P proponents are willfully missing this, as so succinctly put by Katie Davis. They are deliberately muddying the waters, trying to imply that Measure P relates to current oil production. It does NOT.


The initiative exempts all current oil operations and does not affect any current oil jobs or revenue. It also doesn’t limit future oil wells using conventional techniques.


tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 7:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

well, Tab, since they've got nothing, no science to back them up, they exaggerate, use the Big Lie, "muddy the waters" as you say since lies are all they have.

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nuffalready - your thinking is simplistic

America is built on cars - there are very few people who can avoid the use of a car to get to work, buy food, take kids to school. As one who has experienced other countries where that is not the case, it is a an overwhelming fact that it is not easy to avoid the use of a car in this country.

Cars up until recently all use variants of petroleum products. There is no choice. There is no free market when it comes to the use of cars. Up until just recently, there is only one way to make a living and survive, and that is to use gasoline.

So, all of your preaching about how many people use gasoline, is empty nonsense. People have no other choice, unless they have 3 mules and no responsibilities.

The use of fossil fuels is destroying the Planet (and please leave Al Gore out of this - there are thousands of businesses, scientists, engineers who are aware of the problem and have nothing to do with Al Gore. The use of the Al Gore is just one of the myriad mindless bumper-sticker replacements for any meaningful discussion used by the over-35 years of age right.)

Currently, California is undergoing severe drought, predicted by those scientists who use real data to monitor what is going on with the planet, as a result of Climate Change. While the current use and practices of the oil industry WILL NOT be affected by Measure P, Measure P is intended to safeguard our very precarious and precious water supply in California.

Finally, for Climate Change deniers - NASA and NOAA, well-respected scientific organizations - are monitoring the effects of CC on a daily basis. The wealth of data that they have that supports Climate Change versus that of the Climate deniers is like comparing a Redwood to a dandelion weed.

tabatha (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tabatha, news flash, Katie Davis isn't county council. Please stop with the constant disinformation. Measure P is so deceptive an poorly written, the lawyers will have to sort it out.

"BETWEEN 1998 and 2013, the Earth’s surface temperature rose at a rate of 0.04°C a decade, far slower than the 0.18°C increase in the 1990s. Meanwhile, emissions of carbon dioxide (which would be expected to push temperatures up) rose uninterrupted.

A real earth shattering crisis. No wonder you Water Guardians can't sleep at night.

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am voting yes on P just because of the hysterical trolling of the oil shills.

Herschel_Greenspan (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Herschel, good luck to ya. Don't slip on the ASTRO TURF on your way to vote. Could be worse than carbon.

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2014 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Guess all we get is astro turf, if astro turf has its way. Astro turf keeps astro turfing and accusing everybody else of same making astro turf a ...... If big oil gets its way, all we will have is astro turf.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Spacey, Herschel, Tabatha, DrDan, et al:
Those of you supporting Measure P need to get your story straight. Sometimes you say you want to end oil production in the county. Other times you say Measure P will generously (and lovingly) allow it to continue. So which is it?

Then there is (your) morally hazardous position of railing against oil while using your share of it. Every one of you has at least one car and use every other modern consumer convenience the rest of us use. You might do token things to make yourselves feel better, . . .but just let the power go off for a few hours to see how addicted to hydrocarbons you are.

Factoid: Half the nations power is generated by coal. The other half is about evenly split between natural gas (frack gas BTW), nuclear, and hydroelectric. Renewables hardly figure. So cut the power to your houses right now or cut the nonsense.

Then there is the paid 'shills for big oil' schtick. Im an unpaid shill for little oil. While we still have a few majors off shore, big oil sold their SB onshore interests to little oil 10-20 years ago. They dont need to deal with eco-pressure groups the generally hostile county politics. Perhaps you all are proud of that. So you may rest easy. The uber satanic Koch Brothers arent interested in infesting this county.

nuffalready (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My blu-tech diesel has a smaller carbon footprint than Herschel's bong, LOL.

We should cut Tabatha some slack. Its a tough job carrying the water for Rachel and Katie. Rachel and Katie get to hang with Al Jazeera Gore, while poor Tabatha is just a file clerk.

Tabatha, post some facts on ASTRO TURF injuries........ A lot worse than Carbon.....

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 17, 2014 at 5:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nuff, can I personally be for ending oil while at the same time be for a measure that scales it back just a little? It's really not that confusing, but what can we expect from an unpaid shill but confusion. If renewables received the subsidies that coal, oil get, you might see the blip on your radar, but alas, we live in a world where $ buys you power, influence.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Spacey, The 4 billion dollars a year that the petroleum industry receives from intangible drilling costs is enough money to run the Obama govt for 2 business hours.....

The 4 billion is not a subsidy. It is a write off of dry hole costs.

Most tax consultants would agree that writing off losses is a normal business practice, not a subsidy.

just another unpaid shill......

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Spacey, your German fantasy needs some more work...

Coal and gas electricity companies are being paid up to 400x times the wholesale price of power, in return for helping to stabilize the German electricity grid.

According to Bloomberg, “Germany’s push toward renewable energy is causing so many drops and surges from wind and solar power that the government is paying more utilities than ever to help stabilize the country’s electricity grid.”

Germany has built five new coal plants since 2008, adding 4,286 megawatts of new generation, according to Bundesnetzagentur, the grid supervisor. The country plans to add an additional 6,661 megawatts in coal-fired plants from 2014 through 2018, while retiring older coal plants that produced 3,779 megawatts.

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dirty U.S. Coal Finds a Home in Europe

America's dirty and unwanted coal is being embraced in one of the world's cleanest energy markets: the European Union.

Low domestic demand has renewed the focus on U.S. exports, which are on track for a record-setting third straight year of more than 100 million tons. The 28-nation EU imported 47.2 million tons of U.S. coal last year, up from 13.6 million tons in 2003.

Since 2003, German imports of U.S. coal have risen to more than 15 million tons from under a million tons.

Illinois and Indiana coal, shunned in some places in the U.S. because of its high sulfur content, offers a less-expensive alternative than coal from nearby European mines—even including transportation costs.

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 5:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thats funny about the (oh-so green) EU now buying up our low grade coal. I hear they set aside their renewables mandate.

Then there is Joe Biden's son is in the Ukraine brokering a deal to frack the Ukraine shale for gas. Thats so they dont have to buy gas from Putin. Guess fracking is OK in the Ukraine. . .eh?

Then there is the one about the Obama Admin offering to liquify our excess frack gas to take the place of Russian gas. Guess Mr Obama is dancing with the devil himself

nuffalready (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yep Fracking is good when you are the son of a democrat vice president. The left never sees hypocrisy when they look in the mirror. It must be the meds...........

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 18, 2014 at 7:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would like to thank the environmentalists who got Measure P on the ballot. The price of an oil trust stock I have been watching has been driven down by measure P. Even if it passes by the vote it will not make it in the courts. What an opportunity to make some money.

Remember, “Buy Low and Sell High”

Joethomas (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You mistook me for Germany when my home is in the stars. I never mentioned Biden. Your best guess is Im on the left compared to you, but like my namesake, I am above it all. Never trust a politician.

spacey (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

any politican? FDR was a clever one...? But you've been consistently spacey spacey, all over the map, perhaps a bit left of center [USA] sometimes...

DrDan (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank You Water Guardians!

"After measure P qualified for the ballot, the unemployment rate in Santa Barbara County jumped, according to the State Employment Development Department, from 5.4% in June to 6% in July."

nativegeo (anonymous profile)
August 19, 2014 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

" big oil sold their SB onshore interests to little oil 10-20 years ago. They dont need to deal with eco-pressure groups the generally hostile county politics"
-- nuffalready

Wrong conclusion. Chevron has so far spent $1.2 Million against Measure P and more will be coming from petroleum trade groups:

EastBeach (anonymous profile)
August 20, 2014 at 12:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

East Bench: The water guardians arent the poor little victims here. Big (and little) oil will spend whatever they want countering your open and fraudulent attack.

Big (and little) oil are beginning to unravel the sources of your funding, and it doesnt appear you are what you say you are. The WGs smack more of a front group for the Billionaire Club.

nuffalready (anonymous profile)
August 26, 2014 at 6:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

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