Septic to Sewer, Sewer to Lawsuit?

Why would anyone oppose not only the right to pollute the water but also to commit voter fraud?

What is this country coming to?

I thought W Bush made a law about that?

I hope everyone who uses Rincon beach remebers this newcomer Taylor. Thankfully Heal the Ocean has the resources to retain a good lawyer in Woocher and I hope the benefactors keep it up. What is so sad is a newcomer like Taylor can come in with his new $10 million house and effectively try to get in the way of a hard won locals effort. Like to see him and his family try to catch any waves next winter. Sounds like Heal the Ocean needs all the support we can give them now. Hang tough!

Heal the Ocean and before them CURE have been fighting this battle for almost a decade. It is unbelievable that anyone would think that septic systems belong near the ocean. The State of California already had Rincon on their radar.

The Taylors nearly derailed a $21 million grant from the State to partially fund this project that was legitimately voted on by a MAJORITY of Rincon, Sand Point, Padaro Lane and Sandyland homeowners. Shame on them!!

David, SBreader, Stu,

Before your tongues get stuck to the bandwagon, I invite you to read my blog at www.benweiss.com/pages/blog.html to get some real information. Practically all of your comments are inaccurate or misleading.

First of all, Billy Taylor is just one person, yet 78 residents voted against the sewer, including (to my knowledge) every single surfer in the Ventura half of Rincon. I made up my mind based on the facts, before I even knew who Billy was. It takes a lot of guts to stand up to the pro-sewer faction, but as you'll see in my blog, the facts overwhelmingly support our anti-sewer position. It's absurd to peg our groundswell of support on Billy's shoulders; he is just not THAT persuasive. ;-)

No one has tried to derail the state grant, which is $2.1 million (one-fourth the cost of the project), not $21 million as you state.

The Carp sewage outfall (which would contain our waste stream) actually contains _more_ human coliform than was detected in the 1999 DNA study at Rincon. Worse, it then discharges straight into the surf zone, 300 yards off the beach into 20 feet of water, where the currents carry it straight back to Rincon. If you weren't aware, Heal The Ocean's other big project (http://healtheocean.org/grant.pdf) is to show how polluted the Montecito sewer outfall is. (Follow the link and read the project objective.) Rincon's septics have had ZERO reported failures in twenty years, according to the Questa engineering study. There is no reason to spend $88,000 per household to "fix" an already working system.

Finally, the voter fraud here is really on the part of the sewer proponents, who have sent blatantly false statements to the county registrars in an attempt to disenfranchise opposing voters. As I read it, their actions may constitute a felony under CA election law, section 18543:

(a) Every person who knowingly challenges a person's right to vote without probable cause or on fraudulent or spurious grounds, or who engages in mass, indiscriminate, and groundless challenging of voters solely for the purpose of preventing voters from voting or to delay the process of voting, or who fraudulently advises any person that he or she is not eligible to vote or is not registered to vote
when in fact that person is eligible or is registered, or who violates Section 14240, is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 12 months or in the state prison.
(b) Every person who conspires to violate subdivision (a) is guilty of a felony.

In my book, the sewer has now been voted down, 78 to 73, across the four communities. (And voted down overwhelmingly at Rincon.) We will see what transpires.

Well I took Mr. Weiss up on his challenge and read his blog. Contrary to his assertion, the "facts" do not overwhelmingly support "your" anti-sewer position. I know enough about technical water quality issues and their study to understand that these macro-issues are rarely absolutely conclusive and no one who knows these technical issues believes all water quality issues at Rincon will disappear with the sewerage. There are a lot of contaminents up the Creek. Nevertheless the overwhelming consensus of unbiased observers is that, as Mr. Weiss honestly acknowledges on his blog, Rincon is an inappropriate location for septic, and water quality will certainly improve by removing and treating the Rincon residents' waste from the Point. I also challenge the concept that whoever it is that actually voted against cleaning up the waste, did so based on science and the greater good. Obviously many (most?) of the no votes were based on the understandably selfish motive of avoiding spending almost $100,000 per residence on the remedy. I also challenge the claim "all" the surfers on the Ventura side of Rincon voted against the remedy. First how does Mr. Weiss define surfers. With the value of the properties at Rincon these days, there are very few active, regular, long time Rincon surfers who are homeowners down there today. If the picture at his blog is Mr. Weiss I have never seen him out before. That doesn't mean he doesn't surf but after 45 years of regularly being out there, I know all the regulars and he is not one of them. May we pray that Hilary, Heal the Ocean and the right solution prevails!

Does Stu (I'm Stu) stand for I'm Stupid? A 21 million dollar grant? WRONG. It is for 2.5 million. Nearly derailed? WRONG. But if you think that these people are so rich, then why do they need a grant for this project? Wouldn't this money be better spent on public education? It is clear that this is the same language used by Hillary Hauser to try to scare her opponents as well as to gather more money from her donors. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU for calling yourselves environmentalists, acting like big tough locals and not really looking into the issues for yourselves. If HTO is so focused on showing that there is pollution in Montecito (their money base), why aren't they looking at Carps short outfall and propensity for sewage spills and REALLY taking care of the supposed surfers who support them. Heal the Ocean appears to be a bunch of bullies who who choose to hide behind Hillary Hauser. Go ahead, pat yourselves on the back, but you should all know that since the inception of HTO, the near shore pollution in our area has INCREASED. Keep up the good work.

Oh, wait, the grant apparently is for 2.1 million. And most interesting, is not connected to ANY requirements to clean up the ocean. So if the sewer happens, no one will ever know if Rincon's water quality is improved. Perfect for HTO. They can continue patting themselves on the back, working the press and being a front for the pro-sewer interests. And by the way, there are plenty of people in the other neighborhoods that are in opposition to this project. I don't think that Rincon deserves all the credit.

http://www.newtimesslo.com/news/141/c...

In my book, the Ventura County Elections Office determined that enough of the votes were invalid, so the the election result then went the other way.

Do 12 newly registered voters really reside at that one address?? Are they still registered there or actually at both of their residences??

These numerous pro-pollution comments here support again the desperate strategy about confusing with crap when the facts are too stubborn.

Instead of deflecting about how polluted the water is or where the HTO funding originates, this will make far more entertaining reading if ktloc would spin away about how all 12 of these newly registered voters really are long lost siblings.

HiAll's article is not much of a threat. Septics should be better regulated. But the fact that the Regional Water Quality Board is so obsessed with sewering the whole community, when the two largest polluters of the ocean are THE SEWER and URBAN RUN-OFF from over development is disconcerting to say the least.
Birmingham, Alabama, is going bankrupt over sewer. Rates have gone up 329% since 1997 and are about to hit the stratosphere.
And Dave, the other side is not pro-pollution. They are pro- ENVIRONMENT.
And who are you to think that you or anyone have the right to challenge someone's civil liberties? You are quite a brazen individual.

Sbreader,

Thanks for your response, but I still need to clear up some inaccuracies in your post. I never stated that septics are inappropriate for Rincon; merely that Rincon is not best-case for septic (but not best-case for sewer, either.) A 19 is not the best-case blackjack hand, but it sure beats a 16. Onsite wastewater treatment is far and away the most appropriate system for Rincon.

Don't you find it curious that the Environmental Impact Report for the sewer project states, "The project's objectives do not include improving local water quality"? I find it vanishingly unlikely that the sewer will significantly improve the water at Rincon, and any rational cost-benefit analysis shows that it is a massive waste of homeowners' and taxpayers' money. If any of our septics turn out to need maintenance, which has not been shown, then let's spend thousands to maintain them, not millions on unnecessary and wasteful (no pun intended) infrastructure.

Of course, if you're a developer and want to overbuild your parcel, the cost-benefit equation changes dramatically. But I am not a fan of sprawl, especially on sensitive ecological habitat like Rincon, so for me that changes the equation in exactly the opposite direction. Digging up a linear mile for sewer pipes in a protected Chumash reserve is not exactly my idea of environmental responsibility either.

By the way, I surf at Rincon two or three times a week, usually at the Indicator or rivermouth in the late afternoon. If you haven't noticed me, it's probably because I haven't snaked you. And I'm friends with quite a lot of surfers who live at Rincon; it's a big part of why we live there.

Finally, given that we live in an innocent-until-proven-guilty society, it appalls me that these twelve votes were pre-emptively discarded based on false and misleading information. This occurred without even notifying the affected voters, or allowing them the opportunity to appeal. The blatant falsehoods in Woocher's letter to the registrar made me laugh out loud, not to mention furious. Among other things, one does not need to be a full-time resident at Rincon to be legally domiciled there. (Many residents live part-time at several locations, yet they must pick one as their legal voting address.) The anti-sewer side was more effective at getting out the vote, and the pro-sewer side has now resorted to outrageous (and quite possibly illegal) tactics as a last-ditch effort to save their misguided boondoggle. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

Meanwhile, I'm going surfing.

I don't know who any "Dave" is, but I am sure all the Indy readers here would like to know how exposing voter fraud is challenging "someone's civil liberties"?

Seems like anyone who exposes and enforces against voter fraud is upholding the civil liberties of everyone else who voted honestly and legally.

The legal citation given above by bweiss and friends in an attempt to spin it back against HTO is about the crime of intimidating voters during an election; it is not about public interest groups seeking enforcement for voter fraud after the election occurred.

But please, do tell us all about all those 12 people who suddenly shared a home there and who all suddenly yearned to vote locally. I seemed to have missed that story in the few hundred words of commentary above since I asked this question the first time.

And skip the examples from Alabama, please...

I for one am quite appalled at brazen attempts to swing elections with false voter registrations. 12 newly registered voters at one address - are they serious?

It is time to prosecute such tactics. I urge the DA to formally file charges on every legitimate voter fraud case so we can all rest better in the Democracy that has been so eroded lately. It is time we rise up to demand an end to these tactics -- including the Rove/Bush tactics.

Lastly, I find it interesting that one of the writers above is so cock sure he knows the votes of those whose balots were deemed invalid and were never opened or counted. Curious. Even the County Registrar does not know the content of those voters preferences.

David,

The legal citation does not specify whether the challenge must occur before or after the election. The letter from Woocher to the county registrar challenging the votes contains demonstrably false and fabricated information, and if that fraudulent information was used at face value by the county to disenfranchise those voters, that is a clear violation of the law and civil liberty.

Now then, if the voter registrations are eventually determined to be invalid, AFTER A PROPER APPEALS PROCESS, then of course they should be thrown out. BUT: the same level of scrutiny must apply to all ballots equally. (This is why the 2000 Florida recount applied to all counties, not just a few.) A search of 20 random ballots on the pro-sewer side would inevitably turn up its share of irregularities as well.

To respond to Huey's question, the ballots challenged by Woocher are all from households that voted against the sewer in the public October election, so presumably they are all anti-sewer votes. (I'm not aware of a single person who voted against the sewer in October who has since switched sides to support it.) However, many have switched in the opposite direction; if the October vote were re-voted tomorrow at Rincon, it would certainly fail.

Note that even after throwing out these contested votes, Rincon will have voted strongly against the sewer. (By my best estimate, 56 to 46.) This is a complete reversal of the October vote, and strongly reflects the anti-sewer sentiment of the majority of Rincon as we have become more informed about the project. It's a striking statement that, despite the slimy gerrymandering of all four communities together, the overall vote has turned out so close.

I actually am already tired of this one as Mr. Weiss, you and Mr. Taylor and those who voted your way are talking to yourselves and your position to "outsiders" has little credibility. After thinking about it today, what I think in our modern American society is really incredible is that, these people at Rincon, and the other beach communities that voted, all of great economic wealth, based on the value of the homes where they reside, the type of people who are usually the most anti-tax, anti-government, and yet the vote to approve annexation prevailed. If I were a betting man, before the vote and in light of the cost to each individual homeowner, I would have expected an overhwelming no vote. You kid no one but maybe yourself Mr. Weiss if you believe the no votes were based on good science or efficient government. I expect at heart they were all motivated by the effort to avoid the cost.

GO, SBREADER, GO! Right on!

Ain't it great being anonymous? Hiding behind anonymity allows you to be: (choose one)
a) A complete moron.
b) A coward.
c) Threaten physical harm-- just like Sbreader.
d) Put out fabrication and call it fact--just like Stu.
e) All of the above.

C. R. Ash

Sbreader,

The point is no doubt lost on you that my posts contain actual facts, and yours mere speculations.

The strong initial support for the sewer was reflective of homeowners' desire to clean up a perceived problem, and I admit I voted for the sewer myself in the early phases, out of ignorance, under the tacit presumption that the sewer was necessary. It was only when the actual facts behind the project began surfacing, and I became informed of the relevant issues, that my opinion changed. (The estimated costs have stayed relatively constant over the past several years, so that's not it.)

The saddest irony of all is that people like yourself may have influenced some timid voters to support the project, NOT because it fixes an environmental problem (it doesn't), but because it will "fix" a perceived PR problem, unwittingly generated by yourselves through the incessant parroting pro-sewer rhetoric. If only the "Independent" in this paper's name accurately described the thinking capacity of its readers. (And kudos to the above posters for whom that applies.)

http://planetsmilies.net/eat-drink-sm...

Septics work great if they are kept in good working order..
And they pollute less than sewers that just outright pump poo into the ocean. A good septic releases only water into the surrounding soil.. If they are leaking fine the home owner , remove the bad septic and install a new one.. or even better install a methane converter to create electricity for the home in question.. In the end it should not be about the Surfers. It should be about whats best for the Ocean.. Stop Pumping sewage into the ocean. Fix the Septics, If they leak Fine the Home owner!.