Ray Ford
Incident Commanders ponder use of perimeter fires to contain the rapidly expanding fire.
Zaca Fire Team Meets with Mission Canyon Residents
Incident Commander Confirms Plans to Burn
Saturday, August 11, 2007
Author’s note: In yesterday’s afternoon version of the evolving Zaca Fire story, the headline noted the Incident Management Team had decided to burn out a perimeter around the uncontrolled portions of the fire, an area more than 200,000 acres in size that included the entire Dick Smith Wilderness. Later in the day, because I wanted to make sure the facts were accurate, the aspects of the story were changed to note that the fire officials were considering these options. At last night’s meeting, both in the public presentation and conversations afterward with Bill Molumby, officials confirmed they will soon begin using fire to circle the perimeter.
At a meeting in Fleischmann Auditorium in the Museum of Natural History Friday evening, an overflow crowd was provided an overview of the fire, emergency response information and information about the Team’s strategic plans for controlling the Zaca Fire. Currently more than 80,000 acres have burned at a cost that will surpass $60 million today.
MODIS Map
Overview of fire area using MODIS (geomac.usgs.gov) shows the fire perimeter and challenges facing fire command as they try to figure out what they can use as “anchors” to work from. Because the fire is starting to expand rapidly in Indian Canyon, the Alamar drainage and is heading towards Mono Creek, the strategy is now to circle the fire and use burn techniques to deprive the fire of fuel.
Both Incident Commander Bill Molumby and Los Padres Acting Forest Supervisor Ken Heffner addressed concerns about how fire fighters would be able to stop the fire from crossing the Santa Ynez River and moving closer to Santa Barbara.
Without disclosing specifics, it was clear that the Team would expand their use of “back burning” techniques to circle the fire and get it under control. Citing the immediate need to turn the fire away from Santa Barbara and to establish control before the September fire season is upon us, Molumby emphasized the need to be proactive rather than be on the defensive.
With drought conditions at their worst in years, the fire is moving into country that is almost impossible to fight on the ground, and with the Fall fire season approaching, efforts to circle the fire with a “black” perimeter” will begin as soon as conditions permit.
In the Richardson Zone, which includes the Sisquoc River and Sierra Madres west of Big Pine Mountain and along the forest district boundaries on the east, burn operations could begin as early as this weekend on the Sierra Madre ridge.
MODIS Map With Perimeter Added
Depiction of the perimeter as accurately as possible given any burns could change from day to day depending on weather, wind, fire conditions and such. Fire officials feel efforts need to be made in a proactive manner to get the fire out before weather conditions change in September. Note the rugged, broken character of the landscape into which the fire is burning.
The most difficult part of developing a line they can burn from may be in the upper Sisquoc drainage. Currently, north operations is looking for ridge lines south of Cottonwood Canyon they can use to stop the fire from continuing down the Sisquoc. If they can tie in a line from the Sierra Madres down into the Sisquoc and then south up to Mission Pine, this will allow them to establish control and focus efforts to the east.
From the Sierra Madre crest, the perimeter set as the potential burn area follows dozer lines down into Santa Barbara Canyon, continues east along a jeep and OHV route just west of Cuyama Peak to Highway 33, follows Highway 33 for several miles to the Pine Mountain turnoff and then continues on the Jeepway to Potrero Seco and south along the Santa Barbara/Ventura county line to Monte Arido.
In the Live Oak Zone, depending on the winds, the burn operation could begin by Monday. The area considered on the south end would begin roughly along the front face of Little Pine Mountain, drop down across Buckhorn Road and down Camuesa Creek, along the south edges of Indian, Mono, and Agua Caliente creeks, and then follow Pendola Jeepway up to the Monte Arido ridgetop.
Molumby stressed that the operation would take several weeks, would not be done all at once, and would be adjusted on a day-by-day basis to changing fire patterns, weather conditions, and opportunities that might arise to attack the fire directly.
In response to one question concerning impacts on the wildlife, watershed values, and other resources Molumby described what might be termed a “scientific approach” to the burn operations.
Note use of back firing techniques used here on Alexander Saddle. Firefighters have initiated a burn on the back side of the saddle to develop a primary column that will be used to draw fire set on the front edge of the ridge towards it. As the new fire is set and begins to build its own column (flames and smoke to the left), because the main plume is large enough in size it gradually sucks the column on the left towards it.
Comments
Great article! The Chumash Indians used to burn CA land as a land management tool for thousands of years. The 'scientific approach' seems appropriate to the situation. Thank You Ray for providing the best coverage available on this incident.
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'd like to think the fire fighters know what's best, but after watching the fire expand from the narrow front on the Mission Pine ridge into what we have today, I'm not sure. I'd sure hate to be an animal in that forest.
Den (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If we could ask the dry trees and bushes that are about to be burned what they would prefer: 1) to be soaked by salty ocean water or 2) to be burned alive, what would they answer?
But on the other hand, if we asked ourselves what would we prefer: 1) a rattlesnake to be saved out there in the wilderness or 2) our neighbor's house being burned, what would we prefer?
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again,Ray,thank you for the updates on factual information.
I am working on coordinating Massage Therapists to offer chair massage to fire fighters at base camp.
As yet I do not know if base camp can accomodate this.
Hopefully there is a portion of one of the Earl Warren Showground buildings that isn't in use and we can set up a Base Camp Massage Clinic. FREE to the fire fighters,the efforts donated by local therpists.
I am also extending an invite to Fire Fighters to join us for dinner at our home.
Trying to figure out the best way to get the word out. Any ideas?
We of course cannot have everyone over for dinner all at once.
But one or two once a week until base camp is no longer in use?
Maybe get some other folks in the neighborhood to donate their "dinner table" as well.
A home cooked meal and some massage seems the least we can do for these folks to help keep them going.
Thank you to them and thank you to you for your active participation.
emenzies (Elizabeth Menzies)
August 11, 2007 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
WLF feels back fires could start tomorrow....
...furthermore ...Saturday, August 11, 2007
From the Joint Unified Command: Los Padres National Forest and Santa Barbara County Fire Dept :
"Within the next couple of days, Fire Commanders will start burnout operations along many of the contingency lines. The purpose of the burnout operations is to create a black line to stop the forward progress of the fire. The burnout operations are expected to go on for several days and will generate significant smoke. "
packer (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What does this mean for air quality?
We had a bad night last night.
All runny eyes and and stopped up noses.
emenzies (Elizabeth Menzies)
August 11, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"With the fire expanding rapidly, it seems use of such techniques to circle the fire is not a choice but a necessity." - some inconveniences might be better than others...considering the scope of this fire, they gotta save the cities...whatever it takes. It seems the authorities are doing just this.
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Even though inciweb is back in operation, this is by far the best source of good, accurate, and useable information. Thank you, Indy, and thank you, Ray!
tex805 (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Two informational meetings on the Zaca Fire will be held on:
Saturday, August 11th
At 12 noon a meeting will be held at the Pine Mountain Club, 2534 Beechwood
At 3pm at the Frazier Mountain High School, 700 Falcon Way, Lebec." - now let's look at the map - where is Lebec? Far away from the current fire location...on Interstate 5!
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ray -- You are MY hero--as a right-on reporter and as a great narrator. You have nailed this story from day one--kudos to you and your sources, who have entrusted you to tell us the story.
JAMY (J'Amy Brown)
August 11, 2007 at 5:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Planned Actions Love Oak Zone : Continue to patrol and improve existing contol lines and prepare for burnout operations. Stucture protection and fuel reduction will continue in the Paradise and Camino Cielo Branch. Continue building contingency lines."
- good to see that InciWeb.org is back online; they even transformed the 'Live Oak Zone' to a "Love Oak Zone"...that must be good news...
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So glad the overpaid County Information Officer (i.e., hired mouth, flak for Michael Brown, and proficient email forwarder) William Boyer has helped us all so well --NOT!!!-- as Ray Ford, a volunteer (or highly underpaid) community correspondent for Santa Barbara Independent.
FirstDistrictStreetfighter (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 8:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The northwest side of the fire in the upper Sisquoc needs to be held at the Sweetwater Trail - then tie into White Ledge Trail to burn from. The upper Sisquoc is absolutely too steep below Judell to the South Fork. More acreage, but doable?
bmunger (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Using helicopters to perform the 'torch operations' in alignment with controlled drops of fire retardent should be a successful strategy.
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 8:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ray -
During the Perkins fire, there was concern for spread into the Sisquoc. Were any significant lines built near Sweetwater that will assist the crews in this effort?
Also, is it possible to tell where the fire crossed the Sisquoc? After days of activity, maps appear to show Bear (in fact many) camps intact.
Madulce (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 9:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
From InciWeb.org some minutes ago:
"Significant progress was made today with firefighters conducting a direct attack on areas of concern on the south side of the fire. The success of the direct attack has enabled the Incident Commander on the Live Oak Zone to delay the decision to conduct burning operations along the southern side of the fire. Crews will continue direct attack operations as long as this tactic remains effective and safe for firefighters. Fire managers may deploy the DC-10 fire retardant aircraft tomorrow morning."
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 10:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Looking out of Goleta at the hills all day long today, after some nice cool air and marine layer in the morning the usual smokey clouds of the setting sun for sure were no longer there...the 'tactic' must have worked (at least for today...)
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 11, 2007 at 10:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
When the Painted Cave fire seemed out of control, the military and a number of C130's were called in. As a home owner we watched as they quickly and effectively stopped the fire in a very short time. Why have the military and the C130's not been called in this time?
CaminoCielo (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Concerning the Chumash burning the landscape as a land management tool, we really don't know how much they did or in what context. However, since we do know chaparral plant species evolved over millions of years within the context of lightning-caused fires, the impact humans have had on chaparral systems during the short period we have been in North America can be considered harmful. By unnaturally increasing fire frequency (by both Native American and post-settlement inhabitants), many valuable shrubland watersheds have been type converted to weedy grasslands, especially in the Angeles, San Bernardino, and Cleveland National Forests.
See the webpage,
http://www.californiachaparral.org/dn...
for more details.
Chaparralian (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
With news today that the DC-10 may finally be pressed into service, I wonder if the delay has been a matter of topography (as previously reported) or the more common and maddeningly-frustrating "Federal Jurisdictional Bureaucratic Bungling"?
Does anyone have factual information on the matter?
Check this link for background:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15065829/
Observer (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
RAY FORD - what would we do without you? thank you so much for all of the terrific reporting you are and have been doing. I have been spending a lot of time online and yours are definitely the most thorough reports - ones I feel I can trust.
Kudos to you and thank you on behalf of the south coast residents!
elaz (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
'Global Warming' being such a hot topic these days, maybe we could convince the officials to use these large airplanes to reduce additional warming caused by wild fires and 'backburning'?
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The comment about the animals not getting out wont happen. They will leave openings as they progress from one end of the fire to another, giving the animals a way out. They will not light a giant ring akll at once, trapping everything inside...and to the person offering dinner, that is very nice, but the CDF firefighters are paid 24 hours, so are on-duty while in fire camp, and can't leave, and the USFS firefighters work 16 hours straight, and can not use official vehicles to go anywhere unofficial...And are dead tired after shift..And, some of the handcrews are prison inmates....so I don't know that it is realistic at this stage to have anyone show up...but thanks anyway..-A Firefighter
icefire (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The massage tables are a nice idea, though...I've seen them set up at other Fires, you would have to go thru the Fire's Public Info Officer, or Medical Unit Leader for permission for them to be in Fire Camp...and there are multiple camps...The CDF firefighters usually stay in motels, as per their union policy, but the USFS firefighters sleep in tents on the ground...whatever camp most of them are at would probably be the nicest place to set the massage up....The folks in motels might not need the massage quite as much...
icefire (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
About the Jet airtanker. There currently is only one, a DC-10. It hit some trees a couple of weeks ago, and just got repaired and went back in service. These only work on flat terrrain, not in canyons...Can you imagine a 747 trying to pull out of a steep canyon in the wilderness? The DC-10 is currently assigned to the Tar fire, near Avenal, if I am correct, much flatter country. It also costs quite a bit of money to run each day...check out the Firefighters page "They Said" on www.wildlandfire.com, for insight. The other proposed jet that is not approved yet, the 747, would be useless in such terrain anyway....
icefire (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hear! Hear! It looks like the DC-10 is, in fact, working the fire today according to a recent update on the SBNP web site.
Observer (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 4:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Looking at http://www.inciweb.org/incident/maps/... it seems that the 'southern front' of the fire is no longer actively burning.
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The joint-incident fire command held a media conference this afternoon and a replay of the informative meeting is being run on Channel 20 this evening. At the news conference the fire officials reported that the DC 10 did, indeed, make a run from Victorville (it needs a large runway) into Santa Barbara County today.
JAMY (J'Amy Brown)
August 12, 2007 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Did they mention if they would deploy the DC 10 for more runs in Santa Barbara County in the next days?
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 6:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The website of Channel 3 also now has a short article with a short video talk about today's use of the DC-10 @ http://www.keyt.com/news/local/910263...
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Not-so-easy to understand talk of the professional wildfire firefighters...but as mentioned above...from the front lines...http://www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?t=1352&page=2
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 7:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
From above mentioned link (wlhich, by the way, also has a brief mention of the cause of change in a recent Indy article....):
"I think this is a large part of the reason why the fire managers are seriously considering such options as the massive burnout operations currently in the works--there needs to be some semblance of control on this fire before a major wind event impacts the area. This really seems to be a potentially historic fire, given its location and the current fuel conditions..."
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 8:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"In the historic Zaca fire of the year 2007, Santa Barbara burned down..." ....that's not really what we want history to be like in the future (looking back)...
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
InciWeb.org is back with some good news some min ago:
"Firefighters working on the Don Victor Jeepway were supported by four drops of fire retardant, each consisting of 12,000 gallons, by the converted DC-10 airliner, Tanker 910. Aided by this support, firefighters continued to make significant progress building fireline on the south side of the fire. This direct attack tactic has been successful and has enabled the Live Oak Zone Incident Commander to continue postponing a decision to conduct firing operations along Camuesa Road."
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 8:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nice to understand that "direct attack tactic" actually means the use of higher-technology airplanes (like the channel 3 tv, my bet is that 'they' are looking at the Indy website for 'food of thought'...- (that's a good place to look at....for sure!)
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 9:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
'Tanker910'...'The One and Only"...
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 9:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, one of the 'official' websites provided the information the public demands but can't possibly understand without a professional interpretor. The following is from: "http://www.sbcfire.com/"
"...this morning. Firefighters were supported by four drops of fire retardant, each consisting of 12,000 gallons, by the converted DC-10 airliner. Aided by this support, firefighters continued to make significant progress building fireline on the south side of the fire. Over 30 other aircraft are working the fire. "
GoletaResident (anonymous profile)
August 12, 2007 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just remember, The DC-10 is not the 'cure-all' for this fire. Remember the impacts 12,000 gallons of phosporus based retardant could do to the water in creeks, algae blooms, reduced oxygen, fish kills, etc. as well as houses permantly tinted pink....It needs relatively flat terrain...This is why it can only be used in certain circumstances. The other Fire aircraft are doing their best also, lets not forget the brave Tanker, lead plane, and Helicopter pilots out there, as well as the thousands of firefighters leaving their own homes and families to fight this fire to help save SB....A Firefighter
icefire (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2007 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As for the military, and the C130's, The military has very few troops left here...They're all deployed!! And the military C-130's are busy, and the civilian C-130's have been decertified to fly Fire due to safety concerns...But the large airtankers left on the fire, and the many Fire folks on the fire already are doing their best. Remember, when the military comes in, they usually have to go thru rookie Fire training first, and are not the best Firefighters due to lack of Fire training and knowledge of Fire behavior. The troops are usually only used to mop-up after the main fire moves through, or to transport Firefighters in the military trucks. Believe me, you want the USFS and Calfire out threre with the profesionnal Fire Crews with years of Fire knowledge....
icefire (anonymous profile)
August 16, 2007 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Learn more about the DC-10 airliner at www.Tanker910.com, it can drop water or retardant.
a333f (anonymous profile)
October 23, 2007 at 5:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)