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Posted on February 15 at 3:39 p.m.
Dear Takeanon -
I am not anonymous. I do not "pretend".
However, you are correct. I should have advised that I am a "declared suppressive person"; an apostate; a former member of the Church of Scientology (1969 - 2000 OTIII; Class IV).
This demonstrates the benefit of open debate and discussion: truth is revealed. The light of truth vanquishes the darkness of lies. ________________
With that said- I did "check out" Lake's referenced sites.
Just as I did not tell any flat out lies in my previous post, there are no flat out lies told on any of those sites, but the rest of the story should be told especially as regards "disconnection". See www.religiousshunning.org for a little more info on this.
On Scientology Church Decries Wave of Worldwide Persecution
Posted on February 15 at 6:40 a.m.
Dear "Lake" -
I am replying in haste as I am headed to work, but I wanted to at least acknowledge your reply. I agree with whoever the enlightenment era philosopher who said something like, "If you would argue with me you must define your terms."
All that I meant by the word "occult" was "secret or hidden". I believe that over half of the steps on the "Bridge" are confidential (hence "occult" since it is religious information. This is neither intrinsically "good or bad" ; "right or wrong". It is simply a fact that I have had other Scientologists (one in Santa Barbara a few years ago) simply deny that there is any confidential data in Scientology and that is simply not true.
I will check out the web sites you reference. Thank you for "engaging".
Dave SweetlandP.O. Box 940397Simi Valley, CA 93094
Posted on February 14 at 5:47 p.m.
I agree with Mr. William Wynn: ""There needs to be people willing to say something." More real people with real names and real faces and real lives need to be on both sides of this issue. Like you and Rev Lee Holzinger, and Tom Cruise. (Mock Cruise all you want, but the man has NOTHING to gain and EVERYTHING (in this life) to loose by vigorously promoting and defending his religion. I admire and respect him for that while being concerned his apparent fanaticism.
As a practicing Roman Catholic I strongly disagree with Holzinger's & Cruise's Church and religion but will defend their rights to believe it and practice within the law. (No human sacrifice, pedophilia, child abuse, etc.). "Shunning" (among adults) is allowed; but you can't say you have no such practice and then practice it.
I respect Lee Holzinger's critical thinking and debating skills. We had a "lively" one in Griffith Park a few years ago. It ended in polarization unfortunately, but at least , then he was willing to engage in discussion. the wall of silence descended after that.
The COS is apparently playing the role of "victim" for the moment. It would be wonderful if they would stop "playing victim" and engage in an open discussion.
I would be glad to engage in open discussion and debate with "rules of engagement" publicly agreed to in advance as is customary in political debates.
My advice to Mr. Miscavige and Cruise et. al. is "tell the truth":1. Yes we have a "disconnection policy" . Explain it.
2. Yes, we have occult (confidential) information that we only reveal to those invited.
3. Yes, we charge "fixed" donations.
Answering questions, regardless if the answer is agreed with or not, goes a long way! Just tell the truth. Your confidential material does not need to be subject to open debate, just acknowledge that it exists. WHAT exactly the confidential material is is irrelevant. THAT there is confidential material should be part of the informed consent.
Real Person -